Author Topic: Good dogs for a survival group  (Read 4384 times)

Yowbarb

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Good dogs for a survival group
« on: August 20, 2011, 05:25:04 PM »
Watching Dogs 101 right now Animal Planet Ch 130

The Rhodesian Ridgeback is an amazing dog which can chase a lion up atree apparently gentle and loyal with family thick padded pads on feet can run thirty miles keeping up with a horse. Good for treks and all manner of survival activities on the way to the survival site and once there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback  Rhodesian Ridgeback

Just some ideas,
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augonit

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 08:25:41 PM »
A brave, lionhearted dog.  Sounds good.

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 09:41:27 PM »
RE Rhodesian Ridgebacks. This article states the thing to do is get a young puppy from a reputable breeder. Socialize them early on to be around young children.
Do not let them in food prep or eating areas, they do want to jump upon the counter and eat everything. Make sure they are walking or playing in safe areas and not where they could run into traffic. There are not many problems with this breed... They need to know the rules at an early age but given love and acceptance. They are sensitive dogs.
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http://www.ridgebackpuppies.com/index.php?page=Ridgeback-Primer

Introduction to the Rhodesian Ridgeback

Any breed of dog requires a good deal of knowledge in order to ascertain whether it is an animal that you can adapt to. There are whole books written about this breed and it would be ludicrous to think that a few pages of light reading will get one familiar with all of its idiosyncrasies. This introduction to the Rhodesian Ridgeback is merely a "Primer" to get you familiarized with the breed, and is best considered an overview.  Understanding the reasoning behind why a dog was created will go a long way in assisting you at predicting its behavior. Therefore, take the time to read other articles as well - such as History and Origins of the Rhodesian Ridgeback, which will help you to understand its purpose, and thus will give insight as to its behaviors.

Many of us grew up with dogs and therefore our perceptions as to what may be expected of a dog have been ingrained into our thinking. The Ridgeback has a unique personality and temperament, and it would be a mistake to have the usual expections as to how it responds. A bit of insight into what to expect in this regard can be found in The Rhodesian Ridgeback Dog as a Companion.
A member of the gentle "Hound Group"

There are 7 groups of dogs, according to the American Kennel Club, to which all dogs are categorized. They are the Sporting Group, the Working Group, The terriers, herding and toy, the Hound group and the Non-Sporting Group.

By and large, my personal favorite is the hound group. In general, you will find that the overall disposition of all hounds will be "Laid back" in the house, good with children and not aggressive. They are generally accepting of all other dogs, and if aloof, they are at least tolerant of strangers. For many people, the gentle "hound group" is a good place to start when selecting a family companion. This is the group to which the Rhodesian Ridgeback belongs.

A little background history

Most dogs have some particular attribute that makes them notable. Rhodesian Ridgebacks are no different, having made their mark on canine history by being the only dog able to bay, or corner large animals, mainly lion. There are numerous tales of this dog being trained to hunt upland game, take on wild boar and hold elephants at bay. Also known as the African Lion hound (Now officially called "Rhodesian Ridgeback") he was also a trusted companion on the African Veldt. They had a variety of duties, including family protector, hunter and guardian of property. No other breed in the world can boast such a diversity of talent.
Family dog

If Rhodesian Ridgeback Puppies are "socialized" properly with children - that is, introduced to them frequently at an early age - they will allow mature into an excellent family dog, allowing almost any behavior within reason to be inflicted upon them without retaliation. Introducing adult Ridgebacks from rescue groups might not meet with the same success. One cannot know the detailed neuropathy of an adult dog of any breed that is of "unknown" history. Therefore, It is universally recommended that a family with younger children do not get a mature Rhodesian, but rather find a great breeder from which to obtain a puppy. The bonding and socialization under this circumstance will infuse acceptable etiquette into your Ridgeback for the rest of his life.

A puppy is almost always the best scenario. Bonding with a Ridgeback is for life, and the fact that a puppy owner can expose the dog to many more different situations gives more control of the long term social temperament of the dog.
Training a Rhodesian Ridgeback

Training a Rhodesian Ridgeback is not difficult provided that a few simple principles are kept in mind. This breed is very intelligent, and they can learn very quickly. I have trained my Rhodesians to do various things, and often they grasp the principle in a few minutes!. Lots of praise and excitement does the trick, and keep the sessions reasonably short. Using treats will really move the sessions along. However, there is one thing to keep in mind. They are not appreciative of repetitious activities that have little purpose for pack survival. For example, you can expect your Ridgeback to learn how to retrieve a ball in very short order, but he will not continue this pursuit if it is overdone. He is quite simply, too smart and too dignified for circus feats. The Ridgeback's opinion is that "you ought to get a Lab for that".
What issues should you be aware of?


So what "issues" are there that a prospective owner of one of these fine specimens be aware of? Probably the biggest concern I have is that they are sight hounds, and love to chase things - just for the shear sport of it. Therefore, unless you are in a place of absolute assurance that an off leash experience will be safe - do not turn these dogs loose. They could easily bolt out after a frantic squirrel or fearful rabbit into oncoming traffic.

In the home, they can be notorious counter surfers. I would say at least 2 out of 3 Ridgebacks will steal food right off the counter - and some seem oblivious to your protesting, and punitive efforts to stop them. Puppies must be taught early to abstain from any desire to jump on kitchen cabinetry, which they will do while you're in the middle of food preparations, if you let them. I have found that the dogs least likely to counter surf are the ones that are discouraged from entering into the kitchen. Certainly do not allow them in the kitchen when eating.

Conclusion

There are many positive aspects of the breed: They are short haired, and therefore do not shed a great deal (Except when they lose their puppy coat, at which time you will need to assist its removal by brushing with vigor). They do not have the unpleasant odor that is associated with most canines. They housebreak nicely, they are clean as cats and they hardly bark at all - except as an alarm dog, when there are strangers - or strange "things" present. It is often stated: "If a Ridgeback is barking, you had better see what is the matter".

There are many testimonies from people that have discovered and articulated the disposition of these magnificent animals. In spite of their formidable appearance, they are sensitive creatures, a feature that makes them reluctant to be displeasing to their owners. Their feelings can be hurt by by the mere hint of disappointment from their owners. They are not "fickle"; they are not lap dogs to any other than the family to which they belong. The formal breed standard states that they are "reserved with strangers".

This is a wonderful dog, and it's for this reason I must implore anyone considering one of these fine creatures to become thoroughly knowledgeable about the breed before obtaining one. They are not for people that don't have a sense of humor when they eat a favorite shoe, steal a package of cookies from off your counter-top, or refuse to be infatuated over you. However, If you want a devoted friend, courageous defender, a dog that has a bit of a mind of its own, and an eccentric personality, then this is the dog for you.

There are many factors to consider, and this article only touches a few. But, If after the appropriate research, you do decide to get a Rhodesian Ridgeback, I am sure you will agree with the Late Rhodesian Ridgeback Judge, Major T.C. Hawley, who is credited with this remark: "Once you own a Ridgeback, you'll never be satisfied with anything less"

http://www.ridgebackpuppies.com/Getting-a-Puppy/Ridgeback-Ownership.html
Note from a breeder: Rhodesian Ridgebacks need some sort of Formal Obedience Training.

Your puppy will need to have formal obedience training. This is so important that we have included it on our puppy agreement as a qualifying requirement to obtain a puppy from us.


A formal obedience course requires only a small commitment of time, and produces life-long results. Ridgebacks grow up to be fairly large dogs, so making certain that they develop a good set of socially acceptable behaviors (Canine good citizenship) is a must. A formal obedience class is a first step at reaching this objective.

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 02:56:31 PM »
Note:
I don't claim to be an expert on which dogs are the best survival breed, best for
groups of people; trustworthy around children and smaller pets.
Did a little research so far. I would like to get a pair of Rhodesian Ridgeback pups and get some help properly
training them. I would also like to get a couple mutts with good disposition and a pair of those entertaining frisbee - catching terrier dogs. Just to entertain the group. (I doubt
they would be much protection.)  ;)

Going to be posting info and opinions on dogs, from various people and survival sites.
Please post your opinions, too.

The best dog we ever had for survival was "Jaws." A Shepherd cross my husband rescued from death row when he was a three month old pup. He was extremely loyal, intelligent, wily  and strong.
Although he wasn't easy to control (Well actually, pretty much impossible to control) and when it was just him and us on the land he was a good survival dog. He ended up chasing
neighboring farm's cows, people on horseback, people on bikes and got us into trouble.
If we could have just completely fenced our five acres it would have been fine...
He was fearless chasing away packs of coyotes and/or coyote dogs on our land.
He followed my toddler son around all the time on the land. One time he reached down and grabbed a snake and thrashed it back and forth, killing it, then promptly sat down and started chewing on the snake.
That was one of my sons earliest memories. Good old Jaws.
There were no rattlers in that part of Washington, but even so he was protecting my little son. The kind of things he would do, and the size he grew to, years later we figured out he was part wolf.
He kept us safe... he was an amazing friend. We all miss him.

Anyway the next post will have an article on dogs for survival. I'm sure there should be
some other candidates
for best type of dog on this list and two of them shouldn't be on the Survival Group list at all, IMHO.
(Rottweilers and Pits.) No offense to those who want these breeds for defense on their land...
I just don't recommend it. I would never allow those breeds on my land or in my group, ever.
-  Yowbarb

...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 11:27:42 PM by Yowbarb »

sineck

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 03:10:38 PM »
ive had a pit bull for many years, a beautiful dog, they are a little tempermental but like a kid on alot of coca cola. good with the kids. protective. i guess it has to do also in how you handle them, be the alfa. i think the most important thing with this dog is to let him have fun, it is a bit stressful though when it comes to other dogs at times, but that is the main reason i have him, to protect the home and family not only from intruders but also so called trained canines that do the bidding of their masters if you get my drift. this dog will give everything including its life for you, thats the truth,  ive had a rodesian also, between these two you cant get any better. you have to think also about how much food they really eat, a mastiff? their really big. really big ;D
Life is the element of disoriented illusions. A character of self- being with a mind of self awareness. Grievance combined with happiness in a fortitude of harmony and socio communicative disagreements of proffered existence. SINECK,

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 03:12:07 PM »
http://survivalcache.com/the-best-survival-dog/ 

 Survival Debate: Which Dog is the King of Survival
http://survivalcache.com/the-best-survival-dog/
A few months back we asked the question, Dog or No Dog?  The overwhelming response was to bring the dog for a variety of reasons, excellent early warning system, close quarters fighting advantage, threat deterrent, companionship, and your emergency “last resort” supply of food.

Now that most of us agree to bring the dog, the next question is what type of dog makes the best survival dog?  (Dogs are listed in random order)
1.  Labrador Retriever:



(Also know as a “Lab”) a type of gun/hunting dog.  A breed characteristic is webbed paws which makes the Lab an excellent swimmer, useful for the breed’s original purpose which was the retrieval of fishing nets.  This and their subsequent use as legendary hunting companions, gave the Lab the name retriever.  The dogs of this breed are very loving, kind and compassionate to their master. The Labrador Retriever is the most popular breed of dog (by registered ownership) in the world.

Pro’s – excellent hunting dogs, all weather coat, excellent endurance, strong swimmers, highly trainable, intelligent, excellent hearing and sense of smell for early warning, strong work ethic (can carry their own bug out bag), devoted to family.

Con’s – can overheat in extreme heat, can be loud and clumsy at times, questionable protection capability due to their lovable nature, high prey drive means they can sometimes run off, medium fear factor.
2.  Rottweiler:  [Yowbarb Note: I do not recommend this breed.]



(Also known as a Rott or Rottie) The Rottweiler is a large size breed of domestic dog that originated in Rottweil, Germany.  The dogs were known as “Rottweil butchers’ dogs” (For you Germans that would be: Rottweiler Metzgerhund) because they were used to herd domesticated livestock and pull carts full of butchered meat and other products to the local market.   Some records indicate that earlier Rottweilers may have also been used for hunting, although the modern Rottweiler has a very poor hunting instinct.  It is a hardy and very intelligent breed.  The breed is ancient, one whose history stretches back to the Roman Empire.  In those times, the Roman legion traveled with their meat on the hoof and required the assistance of working dogs like the Rottweiler to herd the cattle to keep the logistical train on pace with the legion.

Pro’s – for personal protection they are second to none, all weather coat, highly trainable, intelligent, strong neck, good hearing and sense of smell for early warning, strong work ethic (can carry their own bug out bag), devoted to family, high fear factor.

Con’s – can overheat in extreme heat, questionable endurance, poor hunters compared to other dogs, due to their defensive nature they can be a liability.

3.  Rhodesian Ridgeback:



The Ridgeback is a unique dog breed developed in Southern Africa where it was used to hunt lions and served as an overall homestead dog.  Due to the Ridgeback’s history of hunting lions, this dog is known for its bravery.   Its European forebears can be traced to the early pioneers of South Africa, who crossed their dogs with the semi-domesticated, ridged hunting dogs of the Khoikhoi.  Note: Excessively harsh training methods, that might be tolerated by a sporting or working dog, will likely backfire on a Ridgeback, this is not a dog you can hit or beat.

Pro’s – This dog is built for endurance and speed, excellent hunters on their own (no gun required), intelligent, excellent hearing and sense of smell for early warning, trainable, high fear factor, ability to go long periods without water, adaptable coat for most weather conditions (especially heat), devoted to family, can transverse almost any terrain due to athletic build.

Con’s – Due to high prey drive this dog can run off, questionable coat for extreme cold weather, medium to low protection ability, this dog can be stubborn.

4. German Shepherd Dog:



The German Shepard is a breed of large-sized dog that originated in Germany.  As part of the Herding group, the German Shepherd is a working dog developed originally for herding sheep in the hinterland.  Because of its strength, intelligence and abilities in obedience training it is often employed in police & military roles around the world.  Due to its loyal and protective nature, the German Shepherd is one of the most registered of breeds.

Pro’s – Good endurance, high fear factor, superior personal protection, highly trainable, good all weather coat, devoted to family, superior hearing and sense of smell for early warning, intelligent, strong work ethic (can carry their own bug out bag).

Con’s – can overheat in extreme heat, due to inbreeding and it’s popularity they have a questionable health records.

5.  Akita:



The Akita is a Japanese breed of large dog from the mountainous northern regions of Japan. This dog is a unique combination of dignity, courage, alertness, and devotion to its family.  It is extraordinarily affectionate and loyal with family and friends, territorial about its property, and can be down right nasty with strangers.  Because it is a large, powerful dog, the Akita is certainly not a breed for everyone.  Their background gives them a strong independent streak that can make Akitas unreliable off-lead and more challenging in obedience activities.  The Akita was never bred to live or work in groups like many dogs.  Instead, they lived and worked alone or in pairs, a preference reflected today.  Akitas tend to take a socially dominant role with other dogs, and thus caution must be used in situations when Akitas are likely to be around other dogs, especially unfamiliar ones.

If you are destine to walk the earth alone like The Hulk….this might the dog for you.

Pro’s – Good endurance, high fear factor, superior personal protection, trainable, superior cold weather coat, devoted to family, good hearing and sense of smell for early warning.

Con’s – Does not play well with others, sometimes spontaneous and unreliable, can easily overheat in extreme heat, stubborn and more difficult to train.

6. Jack Russell Terrier:



The Jack Russell terrier is a small terrier that has its origins in fox hunting.  Due to their working nature, Jack Russell terriers remain much as they were some 200 years ago.  They are sturdy, tough, and tenacious, measuring between 10–15 inches and weigh 14–18 pounds.   The Jack Russell is a high energy breed which relies on a high level of exercise and stimulation and does not have a great deal of serious health complaints.  Pound for pound, the Jack Russell is the toughest dog on this list of Survival Dogs.

Pro’s – Unbelievable endurance for its size, excellent hearing for early warning, tenacious barker at strangers, low health problems, decent all weather coat, easily transportable due to size and weight, low food consumption, excellent small game hunter, fearless,  they can fit into any shelter you have to hold up in.

Con’s – Low fear factor, low personal protection ability, high prey drive means this dog can run off, excessive barker can be noisy, will not travel well in deep snow,  questionable coat for cold weather.

7.  Pitbull:




The American Pit Bull Terrier is a medium-sized dog.  It has a short coat and smooth, well-defined muscle structure.  The dog was bred first to bait bulls and bears.  When baiting bulls was deemed inhumane, ratting, a sport where a number of rats were placed in a pit for a specified time with the dog and dog fighting became more popular uses for the breed.  The Pit Bull is a breed that is loyal to friends and family, and is generally friendly towards strangers.  People have been known to be afraid of them because of their bad reputations.  They do exhibit a higher percentage of dog aggression than some other breeds, and a very high prey drive toward small animals (including small children) so socialization at an early age is a must.

Pro’s – Good endurance, devoted to owner, high fear factor, trainable, good warm climate coat, long life span and generally healthy dogs, medium protection ability, good small game hunters.

Con’s – Does not play well with others, questionable history around small children (including master’s family), sometimes spontaneous and unreliable, poor cold weather coat, beware of backyard breeders who often turn out ill tempered pit bulls.

8.  The Mastiff (English Mastiff)





Distinguishable by enormous size, massive head, and a limited range of colors, but always displaying a black mask, the Mastiff is noted for its gentle temperament. The lineage of modern dogs can be traced back to the early nineteenth century.   A typical male can weigh 150–250 pounds and a typical female can weigh 120–200 pounds, that’s big!!!  Though calm and affectionate to its master, it is capable of protection.  If an unfamiliar person approaches near the Mastiff’s perceived territory or its master, ideally, it will immediately position itself between its master and the stranger.  If the approaching person is perceived as a threat, the Mastiff may take immediate defensive action (or offensive action, it depends on how you look at it).  Mastiffs are normally good natured, calm, easygoing, and surprisingly gentle for their size. It is a well-mannered house pet, provided it gets daily exercise and activity. The Mastiff is typically an extremely loyal breed, exceptionally devoted to its family and good with children and small dogs.

Pro’s - High personal protection, all weather coat, highly trainable, intelligent, good hearing and sense of smell for early warning, strong work ethic(can carry their own bug out bag), devoted to family, high fear factor.

Con’s – can overheat in hot climate, very questionable endurance, high food consumption

9.  The Mutt



The mutt can be any combination of the qualities you like most in a dog and hopefully, very few or none of the qualities you would prefer to do without.  With a mutt it is tough to know what you’re going to end up with but usually if you raise them from a puppy and train & treat them well, they will be more likely to be an asset than a liability.  Some of the best survival dogs we have been around have been mutts.
Pro’s – Could be the best qualities of any number of dogs mentioned above, tend to have lower health problems than pure breeds.

Con’s - Could be the worst qualities of the dogs mentioned above.
Let the debate begin!!!

Information on the breeds was gained from Wikipedia and AKC.org
http://survivalcache.com/the-best-survival-dog/
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 04:50:46 AM by Yowbarb »

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 03:14:39 PM »
ive had a pit bull for many years, a beautiful dog, they are a little tempermental but like a kid on alot of coca cola. good with the kids. protective. i guess it has to do also in how you handle them, be the alfa. i think the most important thing with this dog is to let him have fun, it is a bit stressful though when it comes to other dogs at times, but that is the main reason i have him, to protect the home and family not only from intruders but also so called trained canines that do the bidding of their masters if you get my drift. this dog will give everything including its life for you, thats the truth,  ive had a rodesian also, between these two you cant get any better. you have to think also about how much food they really eat, a mastiff? their really big. really big ;D

Hi Sincek
I didn't answer your post right away was putting some time into the other post, (Previous.)
Was just about to post it ...
Re Pit Bulls, to each his own. I know there are a lot of people who say they are wonderful pets
and don't have a problem...
Yowbarb

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 03:17:59 PM »
ive had a pit bull for many years, a beautiful dog, they are a little tempermental but like a kid on alot of coca cola. good with the kids. protective. i guess it has to do also in how you handle them, be the alfa. i think the most important thing with this dog is to let him have fun, it is a bit stressful though when it comes to other dogs at times, but that is the main reason i have him, to protect the home and family not only from intruders but also so called trained canines that do the bidding of their masters if you get my drift. this dog will give everything including its life for you, thats the truth,  ive had a rodesian also, between these two you cant get any better. you have to think also about how much food they really eat, a mastiff? their really big. really big ;D

Hi again I didn't fully acknowledge you.
Good point on the amount of food...
I just cannot imagine a survival group with out a couple big dogs to lend some
feeling of security.
:) 
Tell me more about your Rhodesian. ?
- Yowbarb

Morgana2012

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 01:56:54 AM »
The Border Collie is a herding dog breed developed in the Anglo-Scottish border region for herding livestock, especially sheep. It is the most widespread of the collie breeds.
 
Typically extremely energetic, acrobatic, and athletic, they frequently compete with great success in dog sports, in addition to their success in sheepdog trials, and are often cited as the most intelligent of all dogs.
 
Border Collies are noted for their intelligence. In January 2011, a Border Collie was reported to have learned 1,022 words, and acts consequently to human citation of those words. 

I have one and she's proud to leap 6 ft across.  Very tireless. She only eats 2 cups of dogfood a day, 1 cup at night.  Plus I give her my egg yolks, bread crusts, and any leftovers I have.  She trys to herd my 2 cats and nudge them with her nose where to go.  She got nailed by one of the cats for that.

steedy

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 07:17:00 AM »
I thought about a Border Collie once but I read that if they don't have a job to do, like herding, they can get depressed. 

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 04:56:07 AM »
The Border Collie is a herding dog breed developed in the Anglo-Scottish border region for herding livestock, especially sheep. It is the most widespread of the collie breeds.
 
Typically extremely energetic, acrobatic, and athletic, they frequently compete with great success in dog sports, in addition to their success in sheepdog trials, and are often cited as the most intelligent of all dogs.
 
Border Collies are noted for their intelligence. In January 2011, a Border Collie was reported to have learned 1,022 words, and acts consequently to human citation of those words. 

I have one and she's proud to leap 6 ft across.  Very tireless. She only eats 2 cups of dogfood a day, 1 cup at night.  Plus I give her my egg yolks, bread crusts, and any leftovers I have.  She trys to herd my 2 cats and nudge them with her nose where to go.  She got nailed by one of the cats for that.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with your own wonderful friend, and the thoughts on this breed. I was thinking of adding sheepherding dogs to the list of potential survival dogs.

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 04:57:24 AM »
I thought about a Border Collie once but I read that if they don't have a job to do, like herding, they can get depressed.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this,
YB

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 10:14:49 PM »
Posted by Sineck

Quote
you have to think also about how much food they really eat, a mastiff? their really big. really big ;D

This does not just apply to the giant dogs. I have 2 Catahoula Leopard dogs. They "may" have a bit of extra greyhound in them and each weigh about 52 lbs. Both are solid muscle with no fat. They each need about 1500 -1700 calories/day to maintain good fitness depending on activity level. Most people could do OK on that amount of calories if they had to. Investigate your dogs calorie intake and plan for it or you will have a starving animal on your hands.

fox

Morgana2012

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 08:56:29 AM »
I found the story on that dog.....ABC News with "Chaser" a 6 yr old border collie who knows
1,000 words narrated by Neil Degrasse Tyson Host, Nova scienceNow/ PBS
http://youtu.be/_6479QAJuz8
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 08:58:17 AM by Morgana2012 »

Yowbarb

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Re: Good dogs for a survival group
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 05:36:54 PM »
I found the story on that dog.....ABC News with "Chaser" a 6 yr old border collie who knows
1,000 words narrated by Neil Degrasse Tyson Host, Nova scienceNow/ PBS
http://youtu.be/_6479QAJuz8

How cool!  :)