Author Topic: About Sun Tzu  (Read 4658 times)

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
About Sun Tzu
« on: April 21, 2010, 02:37:42 PM »
Over 2 thousand years ago, a group of military strategies was written down, and collectively, have been used in warfare, business, ad personal life. The strategies will come into play, whether it be in preparation for the passing of "X", or preparing and using military strategies to protect what you have , and your family. He said "To win without fighting is best". That is the ultimate in strategy, but it isn't that way all the time.  One old adage, and rule of thumb for centuries, before an army went into battle, was to get the high ground.  Not having the high ground was costly to General Robert E. Lee at Gettysburg. It is what ultimately caused his army to lose that most important battle. It appears that the high ground strategy will be important in the future. How high, and where? How will you take advantage of being on the high ground? There are many famous Sun Tzu strategies, but I'd like to see all of the information we can come up with about this one, first!

Carlg

  • Guest
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 10:34:49 AM »
For those that do not have a copy of the book "Art of War" and you have a Kindle you can get a free copy.

The "HIGH GROUND" might not only be a piece of land but could be an attitude, a frame of mind or a mental picture.   There are many instances of the high ground being lost.  Probably the most know picture is the one of 4 men placing a flag on the "high ground".   In the days ahead being on the high ground might not be the place to be as then you are very visible.  It might just be better to be in the valley hidden from sight and let the others slug it out.  If you are going to hold the high ground you had better have the equipment and will to use it totally. 

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 11:24:00 AM »
I agree, Carl. If I were to take high ground, the first thing to do is dig in. If only for protection from wind. The one big part of it is if the waters rise. Who knows how high we will need to be? It would appear that Uncle Sam thinks Denver is high enough(1 mile), as there is much invested there. I have heard to be above 6,00 ft, and as low as 600 ft. Who really knows? The one bad thing about being low, in a valley or such, is that the guy on the high ground can easily take shots at you. The battle for Khe Sahn in Vietnam is a good example. The main base was in a valley, with protection from fire bases all around in the surrounding hills. Unfortunately, the North Vietnamese captured those firebases and used them against the Marines in the main base. Needless to say the Marines got slapped pretty hard.

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 12:20:43 PM »
Although Sun Tzu believed in not destroying a country, or it's army unless necessary, he was at times heartless, when it came to his own army. If they were not useful, or not totally loyal, he had them beheaded, without a second thought. I can relate that, somewhat, into how you will turn people away, that discover your shelter, or the fact that you have one, and want to be allowed in. I am sure that any of us would take in whatever would maintain the survival probabilities for the group, but anyone over that limit will have to be turned away. There is even the possibility that they are family. They might not be too happy about that, and decide to get "argumentative". There are many possibilities on how to handle this situation. Any and all ideas will help those that have shelters. What suggestions do you have for the many scenarios?

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30413
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 09:35:29 AM »
For those that do not have a copy of the book "Art of War" and you have a Kindle you can get a free copy.

The "HIGH GROUND" might not only be a piece of land but could be an attitude, a frame of mind or a mental picture.   There are many instances of the high ground being lost.  Probably the most know picture is the one of 4 men placing a flag on the "high ground".   In the days ahead being on the high ground might not be the place to be as then you are very visible.  It might just be better to be in the valley hidden from sight and let the others slug it out.  If you are going to hold the high ground you had better have the equipment and will to use it totally.

Carl I totally agree with the concept of being in the valley hidden from sight and letting the others slug it out.
As far as being on high ground I wouldn't mind being on a bluff, but then would dig in and be hidden.
Very interesting concepts.
- Yowbarb

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30413
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 09:45:13 AM »
Although Sun Tzu believed in not destroying a country, or it's army unless necessary, he was at times heartless, when it came to his own army. If they were not useful, or not totally loyal, he had them beheaded, without a second thought. I can relate that, somewhat, into how you will turn people away, that discover your shelter, or the fact that you have one, and want to be allowed in. I am sure that any of us would take in whatever would maintain the survival probabilities for the group, but anyone over that limit will have to be turned away. There is even the possibility that they are family. They might not be too happy about that, and decide to get "argumentative". There are many possibilities on how to handle this situation. Any and all ideas will help those that have shelters. What suggestions do you have for the many scenarios?

Ed I don't have too many specific scenarios or solutions although I have thought about this stuff. I don't sit and dwell the thoughts just pop into my mind intermittently and sort of evolve.
One thing I can say is the way I am hardwired, if any family member or one of their close contacts showed up at my shelter door it would be darn-nigh impossible to turn them away. I cannot imagine doing that.

The problem really does come in knowing there is only so much for the ones that are already there.
I think I would probably do the wrong thing and risk everything to let them in. Maybe even neighbors and strangers...

To me the only solution to this conundrum is to let certain people in,
shut the doors,
be hidden
and no one will see a door to knock on in the first place.
Not sure if that will always be possible but the idea would be to already be hidden, buried.
Not hearing knocking if it does happen. Headphones on music playing herbal tea and some kinda natural downer like valerian.
As the high winds howl or the fires burn and the place is already full to bursting with people.
If someone was stuck out there and nothing I could do about it would rather not know.
Would try to make darn sure everyone on my list was there.
Those that were invited some kind of hidden signal apparatus on the top side.
It would have to include a blinking light so it could be seen.
Then, of course I would open the door and grab them and pull them in.
- Yowbarb
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 05:04:08 PM by Yowbarb »

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 12:20:27 PM »
It is so difficlut of a decision that many of us might have to face. Are you willing to jeopardize the survival of some, to attempt the survival of more than planned? It's like you have 2 bottles of water, and someone has none and is dehydrated. How do you deny them? Especially knowing that if you give them your water, your odds of survival will decrease. This is the attitude the elites display. "I got mine, you go get yours". I am like you, I don't think I could turn anyone not criminal, away. Where the problem with the elites is, the fact that they have enough to share with almost everyone, yet keep it for the few. One thing I think about; if they go underground, days before disaster, and as predicted by some, aliens come to take us to safety, when they come out of their holes, it might not be what they thought it would be. Gee, I'd really feel bad about that. (snicker)

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 12:22:38 PM »
I should add, that as long as someone is ASKING for help, it is difficult to deny them. If they think they are going to TAKE what I have, then it won't be a difficult decision to make. Intent will be a big part of this.

Linda

  • Prolific Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 985
  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 12:27:32 PM »
The problem I see with some of the Elites is that they used our money, and resources for survival, and they still don't share. But anyhow no sense going there. It would be almost impossible to turn away anyone who is suffering, I'm with you Barb, I couldn't knowingly do it.

Linda
Linda :)

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Ed Douglas

  • Senior
  • Prolific Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3323
  • Karma: +28/-1
  • Resistance is Futile
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 03:57:27 PM »
You guys are truly good human beings. I hope we never have to make these decisions. I can say, from experience, especially combat, you never really know how you'll react until it happens. I saw rough and tough talking guys start crying and throwing up after the first rocket hit nearby. Surprisingly, I wasn't one of them.

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30413
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 05:08:59 PM »
I should add, that as long as someone is ASKING for help, it is difficult to deny them. If they think they are going to TAKE what I have, then it won't be a difficult decision to make. Intent will be a big part of this.

This helps sort it out...
I suppose I would have to draw the line if it was someone not in my family or not in my group and I knew for sure that sharing with them would truly jeopardize the group - I might have to turn someone away. Hope I never have to do that.
One concept though is it could work out to change the plan a bit to setend a hand to someone - and somethng else good could pan out and end up being enough for all...
I don't advocate for people to risk their group, though.
 

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30413
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 05:11:10 PM »
The problem I see with some of the Elites is that they used our money, and resources for survival, and they still don't share. But anyhow no sense going there. It would be almost impossible to turn away anyone who is suffering, I'm with you Barb, I couldn't knowingly do it.

Linda

Oh hi Linda misplaced the glasses and almost missed this.
Yes, it would be hard to do...
All The Best,
Yowbarb

AG

  • Guest
Re: About Sun Tzu
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2010, 06:16:19 AM »
For those that do not have a copy of the book "Art of War" and you have a Kindle you can get a free copy.

The "HIGH GROUND" might not only be a piece of land but could be an attitude, a frame of mind or a mental picture.   There are many instances of the high ground being lost.  Probably the most know picture is the one of 4 men placing a flag on the "high ground".   In the days ahead being on the high ground might not be the place to be as then you are very visible.  It might just be better to be in the valley hidden from sight and let the others slug it out.  If you are going to hold the high ground you had better have the equipment and will to use it totally.

this is great idea. yes is a war and we will need to win.
But this war is not like a "modern" idiots war. Is a war the Divine implanted for us as a test to pass.  Is a test is not a war, but we can preper for it "thinking" is a war.
Adrian