Author Topic: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival  (Read 13546 times)

Yowbarb

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AMY posted this in another Topic, just moving it over here.
Good ideas posted by Amy and Susan.
- Yowbarb


September 29, 2010, 12:21:26 PM »
Here is the basics ....

Preparing Water to Drink
There are a number of methods used to purify biologically contaminated water in order to make it safe to drink. When using these methods it is important that you do not cross-contaminate water you have purified with water that has not been treated. For example, do not collect suspect water using your canteen, pour this into a container for treatment, and then pour the treated water back into your canteen.

Of all the water treatment methods, I am a strong advocate of boiling water to make it safe to drink. Boiling your water is the number one method of ensuring you have destroyed all disease causing organisms. These organisms will not survive a boiling, but they often can survive the various chemical treatments and filters on the market today.

How to Boil Water to Make it Safe to Drink
The old adage that you should boil water for ten or 15-minutes in order to make it safe to drink is incorrect. You will only be wasting fuel.

Water temperatures above 160 degrees F will destroy all pathogens within half an hour. Add another twenty-five degrees to 185 F and that time is reduced to just a few minutes. The fact is, once you get the water to a rolling boil (212 degrees F at sea level) your task is finished: the water is now safe to drink. Even at high altitudes where the boiling point of water is below 212 F, the water is still hot enough to have completely destroyed any disease causing organisms.
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/water-purification-101/

augonit

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 07:40:08 AM »
Actually, there are organisms that can live in extreme temperatures.  I think they are called thermophiles.  So I still think boiling for 15 minutes would still be a good idea.  I still would like to know how to make my river water safe to drink with chemicals from factories in it.  I don't think just boiling will kill those factory chemicals.

VillageIdiot

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 08:12:48 AM »
Actually, there are organisms that can live in extreme temperatures.  I think they are called thermophiles.  So I still think boiling for 15 minutes would still be a good idea.  I still would like to know how to make my river water safe to drink with chemicals from factories in it.  I don't think just boiling will kill those factory chemicals.
Do you think distilling water would remove all chemicals in addition to other impurities?: http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/fresh_water.html

It seems there should be an easier way available to produce fresh water. Perhaps an alcohol still could suffice and achieve the same end result?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 09:01:18 AM by VillageIdiot »
Live long and prosper!

Jimfarmer

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 08:50:50 AM »
"there are organisms that can live in extreme temperatures.  I think they are called thermophiles"
True, but what is their ecological niche?

From http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/jarrett/LiU/class/Project/thermophiles.html :
"Organisms which live in extraordinarily heated climates are called thermophiles. Thermophiles (means “heat lovers”) live in such places as deep-sea hydrothermal vents, inside volcanoes, and in the hot springs of Yellowstone Park. Those which can withstand temperatures above 80 C are usually referred to as hyperthermophiles. These recently discovered organisms force us to look outside the box and expand our current perception of the habitable zone."

Ryan

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 08:26:19 PM »
Good stuff.
It's important to remember that there's a difference between water 'filtration', and water 'purification'. The filtration isn't guaranteed to take out the microscopic bad stuff. Gotta boil or pasteurize or use special tablets.
"Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending" - Maria Robinson

fox

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 10:08:08 PM »
Are any of these thermophiles actually harmful for us to consume? There are organisms all over the place that do not
hurt us.

fox

Jimfarmer

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2011, 07:22:15 AM »
"Do you think distilling water would remove all chemicals in addition to other impurities?"

As I remember from studies long ago, liquids with boiling points lower than water's -- e.g, alcohol, gasoline -- also vaporize in the process and simply condense back into the distillate if not removed.  Charcoal filters will grab most of them.

Reverse osmosis does remove everything, but it wastes a lot of water;  six volumes wasted for every volume gained.  And it requires power.

So, where does that leave us?

Charlie

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2011, 06:13:53 PM »
http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1540

This is a version of the widely unpopular among hardcore distillers..."Amazing Still".  What I want you to see on the first few posts are the pictures of how it is made since it also functions as a passive solar still.   ;D

Jimfarmer

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 09:54:14 AM »
Quote
Quote from: augonit on February 17, 2011, 04:09:25 PM

    I like the still idea, like making moonshine!

That is another thing we may  have to learn to do in the Aftertimes...

Topic "Beer and Winemaking" at http://www.selfreliancedirectory.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&catid=147&Itemid=169

dougluvn

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In a pinch you can paint on side of a plastic bottle or glass jar black adn leave it in the sun the water inside will heat up and kill the back stuff in it.  it will take a while but it's another way. 

what i want is a still.  You are left with pure water.  the issue is you need some sorrta fuel to burn.  NO one way is a silver bullet but if you employ all of them you will be ok.

Bane

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Speaking of distilling water...if I distill it for drinking purposes, I let it well heat up first, with open lid, and close the lid when it's about to boil...I believe it's the only primitive way to remove volatile compounds that evaporate well before water does. This way you let them go out before water distillation...or use some sort of carbon filter after distillation... JM2C

Charlie

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Providing there is sunshine, here are some solar distilling or pasteurization options. Parabolic satellite dish covered with reflective vinyl or other mylar type reflector or even aluminum foil if applied smooth and well. It will boil water in a skillet or other pot/pan in just a few minutes or cook just about anything you would cook on your stove top. Warning...parabolics get way hot so constant attendance is required and do not operate any type of solar reflector without wearing good sunglasses!   I attached a copper plate to the receiver bracket for even heat.  If you put a wooden stick into the focal point directly under the copper plate it will immediately burst into flames  8)





The other things are solar panel cookers and take about an hour to get a dark water boiling inside an inner jar which then condensates on the inner surface of the outer insulating jar. The water to be distilled must be colored with something to heat up. In a survival situation one could even use muddy water but for now a little feed grade molasses colors it up nicely and adds a nice flavor to the condensate.  One can allow a little to collect in the first hour and then wipe out the condensate with a clean rag to remove volatiles as Bane mentions and then collect the rest. 

The one on the left is a gallon jar inside a two gallon jar with lid and will produce about a pint of distilled water in one sunny afternoon, more if set in a good location all day sun and kept aligned properly.  The one on the right is a five gallon experiment that I have only gotten to 140 degrees so far but it only gets afternoon sun so I'm confident one could well distill water from it if given all day exposure. 

I'm doing a complete thread on my solar projects on BajaSusan's forum which is a work in progress...

 http://lifestyle-off-grid.com/index.php?topic=3732.msg5288#new

The forum is private such as this one and I suppose if you're a member in good standing here you can request membership there.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 04:03:22 AM by Charlie »

TheSwordOfDemocles

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I'm a bit confused here, distillation is a different process from sterilisation and or pasteurization.

Distilled water has no minerals or dissolved solids in it, it is pure, that's why it is used in lead acid batteries amongst other things. If you drink distilled water it will make you ill. It is far better to filter (Carbon) any water and then boil it, or use sterilising tablets.

This attachment explains what distilled water does to the body:

http://www.4optimallife.com/Distilled-Waters-Danger-To-Health.html

Charlie

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I'm a bit confused here, distillation is a different process from sterilisation and or pasteurization.

Distilled water has no minerals or dissolved solids in it, it is pure, that's why it is used in lead acid batteries amongst other things. If you drink distilled water it will make you ill. It is far better to filter (Carbon) any water and then boil it, or use sterilising tablets.

This attachment explains what distilled water does to the body:

http://www.4optimallife.com/Distilled-Waters-Danger-To-Health.html

And of course you can purchase their water ionizing system after getting all worked up reading that article  :D

Best to pasteurize or sterilize, bring your water up to 180 degrees F and it will effectively kill all harmful pathogens.  On the other hand if there are harmful chemical elements present, one may need to distill and take your vitamins and mineral supplements.

Edited to add... with any of the solar devices mentioned, one can distill or pasteurize. Options. 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 05:51:11 AM by Charlie »

Bane

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Distilled water being harmful is only partially true...you would miss calcium or magnesium from the water, but you would consume more than you need with your food, so it's not a big problem...Even though distilled water tends to be mildly acidic, that can be fixed by adding some baking soda to it, so turning it alkaline and adding Na and Ca at the same time...
In shtf situation (and we are mostly talking about shtf or wrol situations here), I'd rather drink distilled water than highly polluted or filled with heavy metals and other toxic crapola...
In other words: If in ANY doubt, DISTILL!
JM2C
Cheers!