Author Topic: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival  (Read 13545 times)

bk

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More from the Ready Store.
Surviving In The Desert
Written by Mike Young

Find a source of water. More than in any other terrestrial environment, in the high temperatures of the desert you will be losing water rapidly as your body tries to cool itself. Staying alive means replacing that water.

Cacti and other desert plants are evolved to store reserves of water, and these are excellent sources for it. But some cacti are also poisonous to deter thirsty animals. When you cut open a cactus, if the liquid is milky, it is probably poisonous.

The prickly pear cactus is a great example of a nonpoisonous cactus that is also a good source of water.

Water can also be found in other places, too. Watch birds and other wildlife: where they are, water will be nearby. Look for vegetation growing near dry stream or riverbeds. If you find soil that is damp just below the surface, dig further until the hole starts to collect water.

Certain vegetation like cottonwoods or cattails are likely to be growing near groundwater. Rocks help to slow evaporation, so look around and under them for water – but be very careful turning rocks over, as scorpions like to hide under them.

Turn over half-buried stones just before dawn; the coolness of their undersides will collect dew. Provided you have a plastic sheet or tarp in your gear, you can also build a solar still to collect water. In extremely dire circumstances, you can consume your own urine: it’s sterile and will help keep your dehydration level from reaching dangerous levels.

Yowbarb

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If you ever find yourself without a clean water source grab a piece of cloth and 2 containers. Put the dirty water in one container and run the cloth from it to the empty glass. After a short while you will have filtered, muck free water. Remember to boil..

bk,  :) if I forgot to mention - thanks for your most recent posts here on emergency water...
It all really helps,
Barb Townsend

ilinda

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This article seems relevant to this "water" conversation, as polluted water is said to be "altered" from its original and pure state;  presumably it no longer is structured in the Golden Ratio when polluted.  Enjoy:


Water Structured in the Golden Ratio

        press-release@i-sis.org.uk
        Today at 7:34 AM

The Institute of Science in Society
Science Society Sustainability
www.i-sis.org.uk


This article can be found on the I-SIS website at http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Water_Structured_in_the_Golden_Ratio.php

Water Structured in the Golden Ratio


Story of Phi Part 7


Predictions from quantum chemistry calculations and state of the art cryogenic electrospray ionization infrared spectroscopy provide evidence that water exists as pentagonal dodecahedron clusters based on the golden ratio, the magic number woven into the fabric of the universe and consciousness Dr Mae-Wan Ho
The golden ratio strikes again

The pentagonal dodecahedron (Figures 1) is a Platonic solid based on the golden ratio (as is the pentagon itself); it has 12 pentagon faces, 20 vertices and 30 edges. Water clusters structured as pentagonal dodecahedra consist of 20 water molecules (H2O)20 connected by hydrogen bonds. This cage structure is one of the building blocks of sI clathrate hyrates, crystalline ice-like solids in which gases (such as methane) and other molecules are trapped [1]. Clathrate hydrates are found naturally in deep oceans and permafrost regions of the earth, raising fears that global warming will release unprecedented amounts of the potent greenhouse gas methane into the atmosphere.

Figure 1   The pentagonal dodecahedron; joining the centres of the faces gives three mutually perpendicular golden rectangles, the length of the sides being in the golden ratio

But even for a well-defined structure like the dodecahedron, the number of possible forms (isomers) is enormous because the H-bonds can join up different neighbouring molecules. Applying the ‘ice rules’ (to include only neutral clusters) to the H atom positions for a fixed O network reduces the number of isomers to 30 026, which is still a lot.

Similarly, a protonated, positively charged dodecahedron cluster H3O+(H2O)20 with an extra hydronium ion, is a centre of attention because 21 was identified as a ‘magic number’ (an unusually strong signal) in the mass spectra of water clusters increasing from 11 to 33; and attributed to its enhanced stability (reviewed in [2]). But the number of possible isomers for H3O+(H2O)20 is even greater than that of (H2O)20.
Theoretical computations and predictions of vibrational spectra

To find the actual structure that exists, one needs to calculate the potential energy of all possible isomers to pinpoint the ones with the lowest energies and hence most stable. The vibration spectra of these isomers in the infrared region are then predicted and compared with the experimental spectra. Much work has been done since the 1980s but definitive match between theory and experiment is yet to be achieved.

In 2012, Sotiris Xantheas at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Richland, Washington, USA, created a database of low-energy pentagonal dodecahedron (H2O)20 and H3O+(H2O)20 from electronic structure calculations, using as starting points previously identified isomers that have the lowest energies, and putting them through several different potential energy computation routines [3]. There were 20 least-energy isomers for (H2O)20, and 55 for H3O+(H2O)20 gleaned from previous work. A hierarchical approach taking advantage of the least-energy isomers already identified provides the best chance of locating the ‘true’ energy minima, and hence the most stable forms that are likely to exist in real life.

Xantheas re-optimized the starting minimum energy structures first by DFT (density function theory) using Becke’s three parameter hybrid function (B3LYP) and Ahlrich’s triple valence polarised TZVP basis set (A basis set is a set of functions, called basis functions, combined linearly as part of a quantum chemical calculation to create molecular orbitals).

The lowest lying 13 (H2O)20 and 7 H3O+(H2O)20 obtained were further used as starting points for optimization by MP2 (Møller–Plesset perturbation theory) with Dunning’s aug-cc-pVDZ (augmented correlation consistent double zeta) basis set. There are numerous quantum chemical computation software packages representing different levels of electronic structure and they are constantly being refined by quantum chemists and other theorists for different molecular systems (see [4-6] for more details).

For (H2O)20, isomer #15 was predicted the global minimum by DFT B3YP with binding energy -231.008 kcal/mol; and also by MP2/aug-cc-pVDZ at a highly energy of -212.096 kcal/mol. Isomer #2 was the global minimum with TIP4P (Transferable Intermolecular Potential with 4 Points, a standard water model used by previous researchers). For comparison the two isomers are presented in Figure 2. A small energy difference - 0.13 kcal/mol - separates the two isomers, but the predicted IR spectra are quite different. Notably, in the harmonic spectra (containing only frequency components in whole number multiples of the fundamental frequency), a band centred around 2 750 cm-1 present in #15 is absent in #2. In order to compare with actual experimental data, however, the spectra need to be corrected for DFT level of theory as well as anharmonicity (deviation from harmonic vibrations), both of which would change the actual positions of many bands in the spectra.

Read the full report, with illustrations here:
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Water_Structured_in_the_Golden_Ratio.php

Or read other recent reports on the ISIS science website here http://www.i-sis.org.uk/index.php

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steedy

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I've been thinking a lot lately about storing water.  There is so much fracking in my area, it's pathetic.  It's not in my county, but in surrounding counties.  Even though the oil and gas people won't admit to it, fracking is down right destructive and is polluting our soil and water.  They will be fracking under the Ohio river in the next year or so, and that is where my drinking water comes from.  If I can't get a well dug on my property, I will have to buy bottled water.  I can't trust what the fracking industry is doing.  I don't want to buy bottled water, but I realize I may have no other choice.

Jimfarmer

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Quote
I don't want to buy bottled water, but I realize I may have no other choice.

For drinking and cooking, I use only distilled water that has been re-mineralized, hexagonalized (with a Vitalizer machine), alkalized, and energized.

I have then stored tap water in many of the gallon jugs from the distilled water, and some of them have leaked.  The stored distilled water has not leaked.

Yowbarb

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I've been thinking a lot lately about storing water.  There is so much fracking in my area, it's pathetic.  It's not in my county, but in surrounding counties.  Even though the oil and gas people won't admit to it, fracking is down right destructive and is polluting our soil and water.  They will be fracking under the Ohio river in the next year or so, and that is where my drinking water comes from.  If I can't get a well dug on my property, I will have to buy bottled water.  I can't trust what the fracking industry is doing.  I don't want to buy bottled water, but I realize I may have no other choice.
steedy - I agree, no we cannot trust those frackers.
BTW - it is so good to see you on the Town Hall again! Thanks for your recent posts and sharing your ideas.  :)
- Yowbarb

Yowbarb

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2015, 04:15:36 AM »
Global Moderator Ruth sent me this:

Barb, just discovered this item. Thought of you and TH.

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DOMOCCI/ref=pe_1861300_149349500_em_1p_0_im

steedy

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2016, 10:47:32 AM »
I'm finally moving to the country with some acreage!! That's the good news.  The bad news is just by observing the driveway at my new place, it's obvious a lot of water drains off the hill and makes large gullys in the drive.  I've been trying to come up with ways to not only divert the water, but also be able to use it; for gardening mainly.  One idea I had was to dig a hole large enough to put one of those big plastic water containers they use on farms around here and have the water fill that up.  Then, I was going to use a hand pump to get it out for my gardens.  Not sure just how feasible this will be.  If I can get it to work, not only would I be preventing more erosion, but also not using "city" water, but nature's water coming off the hill.  My ideas are unfortunately limited by the fact that the drive marks the property line, so if I were to use pipes and trenches to divert it out that way, I would be on someone else's property. 

Yowbarb

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2016, 11:41:47 AM »
I'm finally moving to the country with some acreage!! That's the good news.  The bad news is just by observing the driveway at my new place, it's obvious a lot of water drains off the hill and makes large gullys in the drive.  I've been trying to come up with ways to not only divert the water, but also be able to use it; for gardening mainly.  One idea I had was to dig a hole large enough to put one of those big plastic water containers they use on farms around here and have the water fill that up.  Then, I was going to use a hand pump to get it out for my gardens.  Not sure just how feasible this will be.  If I can get it to work, not only would I be preventing more erosion, but also not using "city" water, but nature's water coming off the hill.  My ideas are unfortunately limited by the fact that the drive marks the property line, so if I were to use pipes and trenches to divert it out that way, I would be on someone else's property.
Wow that is good news about your land! I wish I knew how to handle that water drainage problem. Maybe ilinda might know... Will post any info or ideas I can get...
#1 idea which comes to mind: Ask the property owner next to you if he would mind you diverting water  off the drive, even if it is a few feet? on his side of the line. Maybe you could work out a deal with him, one drainage pipe goes to a barrel for him? If it isn't too muddy...if it had rocks or a cement path, under the water pathway it would eliminate some of the mud...

ilinda

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2016, 04:41:56 PM »
I'm finally moving to the country with some acreage!! That's the good news.  The bad news is just by observing the driveway at my new place, it's obvious a lot of water drains off the hill and makes large gullys in the drive.  I've been trying to come up with ways to not only divert the water, but also be able to use it; for gardening mainly.  One idea I had was to dig a hole large enough to put one of those big plastic water containers they use on farms around here and have the water fill that up.  Then, I was going to use a hand pump to get it out for my gardens.  Not sure just how feasible this will be.  If I can get it to work, not only would I be preventing more erosion, but also not using "city" water, but nature's water coming off the hill.  My ideas are unfortunately limited by the fact that the drive marks the property line, so if I were to use pipes and trenches to divert it out that way, I would be on someone else's property.
Wow that is good news about your land! I wish I knew how to handle that water drainage problem. Maybe ilinda might know... Will post any info or ideas I can get...
#1 idea which comes to mind: Ask the property owner next to you if he would mind you diverting water  off the drive, even if it is a few feet? on his side of the line. Maybe you could work out a deal with him, one drainage pipe goes to a barrel for him? If it isn't too muddy...if it had rocks or a cement path, under the water pathway it would eliminate some of the mud...
Congratulations, Steedy!

Sounds like it can be solved.  First, would it be possible for you to take a few pics, such as an overview, then a few closer shots, so we can see the lay of the land?

A few months ago one of my sisters sent a few pics from our old homestead--where we three girls grew up.  Fascinating.  But also, two of us noticed some very different changes in the elevation in one part of the yard, and some other changes.  We knew it was a low-lying area, that flooded in any heavy rain, and parents corrected it as best they could, but apparently later owners improved the drainage even more.

A picture does tell a thousand words.

enlightenme

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2016, 05:00:29 AM »
I'm finally moving to the country with some acreage!! That's the good news.  The bad news is just by observing the driveway at my new place, it's obvious a lot of water drains off the hill and makes large gullys in the drive.  I've been trying to come up with ways to not only divert the water, but also be able to use it; for gardening mainly.  One idea I had was to dig a hole large enough to put one of those big plastic water containers they use on farms around here and have the water fill that up.  Then, I was going to use a hand pump to get it out for my gardens.  Not sure just how feasible this will be.  If I can get it to work, not only would I be preventing more erosion, but also not using "city" water, but nature's water coming off the hill.  My ideas are unfortunately limited by the fact that the drive marks the property line, so if I were to use pipes and trenches to divert it out that way, I would be on someone else's property.

Congrats on the move, I'm so happy you have found a place with some acreage!  Hopefully, you can get some ideas from people here on the drainage situation.  I can't think of anything that might help, but I'll bet you'll get some good ideas from others on here.   :D

ilinda

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Re: Post here information on obtaining and storing water for future survival
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2016, 02:53:32 PM »
I'm finally moving to the country with some acreage!! That's the good news.  The bad news is just by observing the driveway at my new place, it's obvious a lot of water drains off the hill and makes large gullys in the drive.  I've been trying to come up with ways to not only divert the water, but also be able to use it; for gardening mainly.  One idea I had was to dig a hole large enough to put one of those big plastic water containers they use on farms around here and have the water fill that up.  Then, I was going to use a hand pump to get it out for my gardens.  Not sure just how feasible this will be.  If I can get it to work, not only would I be preventing more erosion, but also not using "city" water, but nature's water coming off the hill.  My ideas are unfortunately limited by the fact that the drive marks the property line, so if I were to use pipes and trenches to divert it out that way, I would be on someone else's property.
In the May/June 2014 Countryside, Vol. 98, Number 3, page 32 article, titled When In Rome, writer Ben Hoffman tells how the locals in a given area have reasons for doing things the way they do, and how it might be a good idea to consult them, as they know the terrain, weather patterns, climate, geology and geography of the area in which they live.

Anyway, this all ties in with Steedy and the newly acquired property.  In addition, I recall a specific anecdote in one of Scott and Helen Nearing's books, in which they ignored what all the locals told them, when they, new to the area, decided to build a little bridge or something similar across a driveway culvert, or similar situation.  ( I can see it in my mind.)  Anyway, the locals, upon seeing their beginning work, told them, that it will never work, as it will flood out completely in the next big rains.  But the Nearings, thinking their project looked so promising, continued on, and when finished, looked great and worked perfectly.

That is, until the first big rains came along and completely washed out their new crossing.

Still, good luck, Steedy.