Author Topic: priorities, getting started, and fundamental questions  (Read 3389 times)

Socrates

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Re: dictionaries & encyclopaedias
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2017, 01:03:28 PM »
I would add a good stash of dictionaries of various degrees of complexity.

Good Oxford and a magnifying glass to go with it. Some usages can only be found there.
Some English - other language dictionaries.

Encyclopedias, even though everything will change they would be a point of reference.

I'd say if a person knows their bug out destination they could do a proper job of packing and burying books for later use.
All good points.
At some point it came to me to look for a picture dictionary and it turned out Oxford puts out one of those. That means that even if i myself don't survive, or if nobody speaking English is around to enjoy my books, that someone at some point might be able to figure out how to read English anyway (and hopefully support mankind that way).

I have a number of magnifying glasses, as well as some fresnel lenses. They can help make fire, too.

I have both maritime and technical encyclopaedias that go into great detail concerning these topics. I bought 'm cheap.

I have thought that burying books carefully is a worthwhile pursuit. They should be wedged in among bedrock and covered in cement, preferably placed in water-tight containers. The first years won't be about reading or researching anyway. Although some books to kill time and break monotony could turn out to keep one from going crazy, so maybe a good idea to keep some novels where you can easily get to them.
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ilinda

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Re: priorities, getting started, and fundamental questions
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 02:39:01 PM »
Socrates, interesting tip of yelling to help stop a heart attack.
I have found that getting mad and slamming my hand down on the table helped me not choke to death (was by myself.)
The thought of dying by myself in such a dumb way did make me mad and I slammed my hand down on the table!
Something about that movement opened up airways just enough so that doing the heimlich on myself and tiny sips of water did the trick.
One method to help the heart I saw, was the person submerges his face in lukewarm water.
On a related note, someone once told me that one could stop an asthma attack by throwing cold water in/on the face of the victim, but I'm not sure that WOULD work, so would never try it. 

Regarding choking, the method of getting angry and slamming your hand down, would most likely cause a bit of instantaneous exhalation, maybe just enough to help expel anything in the airways.  Good to hear it worked.

Socrates

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Re: priorities; setting up shop
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 11:38:15 PM »
So, it's 'spring' 2017 and i'm getting ready to relocate at the end of summer. What do i bring along...?

I'm working my butt off for little pay; i hope to be able to save about € 500/month for about 4 months and then hightail it outta here.
That's little funds but i've been saying for years that it's not about being rich; it's about knowing what to know...

What is my first order of business when i arrive at my chosen location? Well, let's talk about why i chose said location to begin with; nearby ancient caves (that have stood the test of time), an inviting climate [including during an ice age] and not particularly buffeted by radiation [i.e. nearby nuclear plants]. Going on...

I have my seeds and enough money to buy in stores of calories [cheese, sausages, etc. etc.]; the seeds are genetic information i need but there are 2 other kinds: bacterial cultures [for things like cheeses] and livestock.
Livestock is a whole problem on it's own: how to feed them, how to keep them, etc. etc. On the other hand, as Guns, Germs and Steel points out, about 30 domestic animals stem from the Tigris/Euphrates region, along with all kinds of vegetation we take for granted, like grapes. Oh, i wonder why...

Anyway, so besides a good dog [y'all know i'm talking about Ridgebacks], we're talking goats, bees... bla bla; i've covered this many times. Alternative: no calories and death... When you're talking survival, you're talking livestock!
So, somehow i've managed to acquire appropriate livestock and stock up on things to keep them alive [hay, corn to sprout and feed to the scobies, barrels of honey to feed to the bees, etc.]; What's next?

After the stores of calorically-rich foods i need, the next order of business is heat. And that means... building a rocket mass heater. Otherwise there's no way i'm going to be able to collect enough materials to keep me warm for the next couple of years. A RMH will burn 5 or 10% of what state-of-the-art heaters will. Nuff said.

There are some flora that i can't collect seeds from readily, like the vetiver and mangrove; they are key species in my book, one helping to establish terraces [a key farming tactic], the other for making use of coastlines.

I have my library that i've spent the past years putting together; these books need to be packaged carefully so they will stay dry and are easy to carry. I will put them somewhere safe, perhaps bury them and if need be cover in a layer of concrete.

I have a stash of glass; how would i brew and stock finished brew otherwise? Fermented drinks are not only a basic form of nutrition enjoyed by all long-lived cultures throughout the world and in all ages [quite the recommendation right there], but it offers relief in times of stress, depression and grief.
Similarly, there will need be some earthenware pots for things like fermenting miso. These are also redundancies for brewing liquids. Either way, both glass and ceramics will basically keep forever and are a solid investment. It's important to store them in a way that even a megaquake will not destroy them.

There are many tools to consider; i will focus on a few:
- fresnel lenses; these will make fire or even furnace temperatures from the power of the Sun alone; an awesome technology that will probably not be possible to recreate for millennia, though it is cheap today.
- besides a good knife, i'm thinking good quality crossbow; good for shooting rabbits and dear with, as well as for self-defense. And god knows it'll be easier to fashion arrows than it will be to make gunpowder.

If at all possible, i will need to find a good source of soil and collect some in a location that is safe from megagales. I fear that mega-storms/-gales/-hurricanes will carry away all topsoil just as they carry away all trees. We all take for granted that there's always dirt everywhere but after TSHTF, you can't be sure about anything. And what are you going to plant your seeds in if you can't find soil? You can grow soil (if you know how) but that could take years, especially to grow enough.
Cow dung is wonderful for planting seeds in and good dirt can be dug up from any forrest. If such things are stashed in a cave or in a crevice [perhaps covered in a layer of concrete], one can be sure of having this basic requisite for growing food.


I have a good location, my library, some basic tools, genetic information and knowledge how to grow soil (which is more than conventional man has going for him...). Besides the tools i buy, in the end it all boils down to knowledge in some form or other. But i say the most important knowledge, both for survival and for the future, concerns knowledge about people; what makes them tick, how they get turned into monsters and why one should keep them away. Both nature and animals are not actively seeking to destroy you, but people, that's a different story; if they find you, if they know that you're there and where to find you, they will come and take what's yours and hurt, kill and eat you.
On a lighter note, they will all likely die in the months following TEOTWAWKI, as they are ignorant about radiation and unprepared for what is to come. So just staying out of their way for a while should suffice to overcome the threat they pose.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 09:24:21 AM by Socrates »
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Socrates

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Re: setting up shop
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2017, 09:29:02 AM »
i forget...

- cans of olive oil
- maybe a liter of MMS
- cans of fish
- a few tubs of One World Whey

anything else i missed?
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ilinda

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Re: priorities; setting up shop
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2017, 03:08:34 PM »
So, it's 'spring' 2017 and i'm getting ready to relocate at the end of summer. What do i bring along...?

I'm working my butt off for little pay; i hope to be able to save about € 500/month for about 4 months and then hightail it outta here.
That's little funds but i've been saying for years that it's not about being rich; it's about knowing what to know...

What is my first order of business when i arrive at my chosen location? Well, let's talk about why i chose said location to begin with; nearby ancient caves (that have stood the test of time), an inviting climate [including during an ice age] and not particularly buffeted by radiation [i.e. nearby nuclear plants]. Going on...

I have my seeds and enough money to buy in stores of calories [cheese, sausages, etc. etc.]; the seeds are genetic information i need but there are 2 other kinds: bacterial cultures [for things like cheeses] and livestock.
Livestock is a whole problem on it's own: how to feed them, how to keep them, etc. etc. On the other hand, as Guns, Germs and Steel points out, about 30 domestic animals stem from the Tigris/Euphrates region, along with all kinds of vegetation we take for granted, like grapes. Oh, i wonder why...

Anyway, so besides a good dog [y'all know i'm talking about Ridgebacks], we're talking goats, bees... bla bla; i've covered this many times. Alternative: no calories and death... When you're talking survival, you're talking livestock!
So, somehow i've managed to acquire appropriate livestock and stock up on things to keep them alive [hay, corn to sprout and feed to the scobies, barrels of honey to feed to the bees, etc.]; What's next?

After the stores of calorically-rich foods i need, the next order of business is heat. And that means... building a rocket mass heater. Otherwise there's no way i'm going to be able to collect enough materials to keep me warm for the next couple of years. A RMH will burn 5 or 10% of what state-of-the-art heaters will. Nuff said.

There are some flora that i can't collect seeds from readily, like the vetiver and mangrove; they are key species in my book, one helping to establish terraces [a key farming tactic], the other for making use of coastlines.

I have my library that i've spent the past years putting together; these books need to be packaged carefully so they will stay dry and are easy to carry. I will put them somewhere safe, perhaps bury them and if need be cover in a layer of concrete.

I have a stash of glass; how would i brew and stock finished brew otherwise? Fermented drinks are not only a basic form of nutrition enjoyed by all long-lived cultures throughout the world and in all ages [quite the recommendation right there], but it offers relief in times of stress, depression and grief.
Similarly, there will need be some earthenware pots for things like fermenting miso. These are also redundancies for brewing liquids. Either way, both glass and ceramics will basically keep forever and are a solid investment. It's important to store them in a way that even a megaquake will not destroy them.

There are many tools to consider; i will focus on a few:
- fresnel lenses; these will make fire or even furnace temperatures from the power of the Sun alone; an awesome technology that will probably not be possible to recreate for millennia, though it is cheap today.
- besides a good knife, i'm thinking good quality crossbow; good for shooting rabbits and dear with, as well as for self-defense. And god knows it'll be easier to fashion arrows than it will be to make gunpowder.

If at all possible, i will need to find a good source of soil and collect some in a location that is safe from megagales. I fear that mega-storms/-gales/-hurricanes will carry away all topsoil just as they carry away all trees. We all take for granted that there's always dirt everywhere but after TSHTF, you can't be sure about anything. And what are you going to plant your seeds in if you can't find soil? You can grow soil (if you know how) but that could take years, especially to grow enough.
Cow dung is wonderful for planting seeds in and good dirt can be dug up from any forrest. If such things are stashed in a cave or in a crevice [perhaps covered in a layer of concrete], one can be sure of having this basic requisite for growing food.


I have a good location, my library, some basic tools, genetic information and knowledge how to grow soil (which is more than conventional man has going for him...). Besides the tools i buy, in the end it all boils down to knowledge in some form or other. But i say the most important knowledge, both for survival and for the future, concerns knowledge about people; what makes them tick, how they get turned into monsters and why one should keep them away. Both nature and animals are not actively seeking to destroy you, but people, that's a different story; if they find you, if they know that you're there and where to find you, they will come and take what's yours and hurt, kill and eat you.
On a lighter note, they will all likely die in the months following TEOTWAWKI, as they are ignorant about radiation and unprepared for what is to come. So just staying out of their way for a while should suffice to overcome the threat they pose.
At least you're doing a lot of thinking and planning before bugging out.
One thing you've probably already thought of was how to keep your seeds dry.  They need to be as dry as matches, maybe drier.  Do you have any of those little packets of dessicant that is included with some products, and are labeled "Do Not Eat" (!).  They might help keep those seeds dry, especially if placed in ziplok bags with the seeds.

Also your books must not only be kept dry, but rodent proof.  I had a bunch of books stored in a metal trailer that I thought was rodent proof, but the mice climbed up the adjacent vegetation as it grew during the warmer weather and got in, and OMG what a bunch of ruined books they left.  Fortunately it was discovered early on, and it could have been a total catastrophe.  I find metal tins, whether small like cookies are sold in at Christmas time, or the larger ones that hold popcorn, and these are really nice for larger items you want rodent proofed.

There should be bat droppings in the cave(s), assuming it hasn't all been harvested to be sold as fertilizer.  Sometimes it's really deep.

As you already know, a crossbow would be much quieter than gunpowder, when thinking of your "signature".

A Master Gardener once told me that humanure will be safe after about three years of composting, so it's a good idea to start a second pile adjacent to the first, so that at the end of year one, you begin filling pile #2, then at end of year #2, start pile #3, so by the time you're starting your pile #4, you should have pile #1 ready for the garden, and once that pile is emptied into garden, then bed #4 goes there.  Etc.

Good luck.

Yowbarb

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Re: priorities, getting started, and fundamental questions
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2017, 06:55:55 PM »
Socrates, interesting tip of yelling to help stop a heart attack.
I have found that getting mad and slamming my hand down on the table helped me not choke to death (was by myself.)
The thought of dying by myself in such a dumb way did make me mad and I slammed my hand down on the table!
Something about that movement opened up airways just enough so that doing the heimlich on myself and tiny sips of water did the trick.
One method to help the heart I saw, was the person submerges his face in lukewarm water.
On a related note, someone once told me that one could stop an asthma attack by throwing cold water in/on the face of the victim, but I'm not sure that WOULD work, so would never try it. 

Regarding choking, the method of getting angry and slamming your hand down, would most likely cause a bit of instantaneous exhalation, maybe just enough to help expel anything in the airways.  Good to hear it worked.

I will remember the cold water tip. Maybe it does work...

Yowbarb

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Re: dictionaries & encyclopaedias
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2017, 06:58:03 PM »
I would add a good stash of dictionaries of various degrees of complexity.

Good Oxford and a magnifying glass to go with it. Some usages can only be found there.
Some English - other language dictionaries.

Encyclopedias, even though everything will change they would be a point of reference.

I'd say if a person knows their bug out destination they could do a proper job of packing and burying books for later use.
All good points.
At some point it came to me to look for a picture dictionary and it turned out Oxford puts out one of those. That means that even if i myself don't survive, or if nobody speaking English is around to enjoy my books, that someone at some point might be able to figure out how to read English anyway (and hopefully support mankind that way).

I have a number of magnifying glasses, as well as some fresnel lenses. They can help make fire, too.

I have both maritime and technical encyclopaedias that go into great detail concerning these topics. I bought 'm cheap.

I have thought that burying books carefully is a worthwhile pursuit. They should be wedged in among bedrock and covered in cement, preferably placed in water-tight containers. The first years won't be about reading or researching anyway. Although some books to kill time and break monotony could turn out to keep one from going crazy, so maybe a good idea to keep some novels where you can easily get to them.

I like your ideas about book caches.
Good to know about Oxford making a picture dictionary, too!
Simple translation dictionaries could be a real boon in the future, too.

Socrates

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Re: Oxford Picture Dictionary
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 12:13:43 PM »
Good to know about Oxford making a picture dictionary, too!
Y'know, that's just one of those things it took me years to get around to thinking about. At some point i'm like: "Hey, wouldn't it be great if there were something like a picture dictionary?"; then, after a bit, it hits me that i should Google that... and presto.

anything else i missed?
Also: cement; a bag of cement just costs a few bucks but it's something one can't really reproduce after TSHTF and it's such great stuff to have.
I remember being in this abandoned valley on La Gomera [what i call "my valley" to myself] and thinking: "Hey, with some cement here i could lay down a floor of flattish rocks underneath this waterfall and have a shower/outdoor 'bathroom' "...
But also for hydro works and the like. Another for instance: i read about these backward folks leading water to their field and how most of the water would sink into the dirt on the way to said field; now, cement could really help in stopping water from heading the wrong way. And it can really help in creating dams, just to name yet another wonderful application. And i've spent a lot of time trying to get water to flow where i wanted it to in this valley of mine and i can tell you from personal experience that water will eat away at whatever you throw in it's path that is not cement (or work it's way around, under or through it).
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