Author Topic: what is 'survival food' / what to think of  (Read 9398 times)

Socrates

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survival food priorities
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2017, 08:19:44 AM »
Continuing my research into calories, i ran into this amazing YouTube talk on nutritional ketosis. A quick overview of amazing topics discussed in this (long) talk:
- even lean people's bodies contain in access of 100,000 calories in the fats inside their bodies
- 3 to 4 weeks after low-carb eating, the body's process of turning to burning it's fats is optimalized
- glycogen stores in the body that will only supply one with minutes of emergency energy are only depleted in case of emergency if one is (already) in a state of nutritional ketosis


So, a few things i've learned these past weeks [but am still in the middle of researching]:
- carbs give glycogen, fats give ketones and (i think) proteins give free amino acids (i.e. that the body then uses as fuel)
- the brain functions fine on burning ketones [i.e. nutritional ketosis]; the speaker in the above link even says he prefers the effect of being in ketosis in relation to how his mind feels


According to the above, one might think that already being in nutritional ketosis is a wise tactic for anyone interested in surviving [potentially arriving] harsh times:
- when (already) in a state of nutritional ketosis one need not eat regularly, but once a day (or less) suffices
- one need not go through 3 to 4 weeks of less-than-optimal energy while the body converts to burning fat reserves, i.e. right when you probably need your energy most
- a diet based on nutritional ketosis is probably the easiest, fastest and most reliable way to lose fat (and not be lugging around excess weight, again, when you need to be fast, i.e. in dire times)

These talks on carb-low diets are long and it'll be a while before i'll feel i've run through enough of them. I will add to this thread as i run into more relevant info.
2204
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ilinda

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Re: survival food priorities
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2017, 01:19:21 PM »
Continuing my research into calories, i ran into this amazing YouTube talk on nutritional ketosis. A quick overview of amazing topics discussed in this (long) talk:
- even lean people's bodies contain in access of 100,000 calories in the fats inside their bodies
- 3 to 4 weeks after low-carb eating, the body's process of turning to burning it's fats is optimalized
- glycogen stores in the body that will only supply one with minutes of emergency energy are only depleted in case of emergency if one is (already) in a state of nutritional ketosis


So, a few things i've learned these past weeks [but am still in the middle of researching]:
- carbs give glycogen, fats give ketones and (i think) proteins give free amino acids (i.e. that the body then uses as fuel)
- the brain functions fine on burning ketones [i.e. nutritional ketosis]; the speaker in the above link even says he prefers the effect of being in ketosis in relation to how his mind feels


According to the above, one might think that already being in nutritional ketosis is a wise tactic for anyone interested in surviving [potentially arriving] harsh times:
- when (already) in a state of nutritional ketosis one need not eat regularly, but once a day (or less) suffices
- one need not go through 3 to 4 weeks of less-than-optimal energy while the body converts to burning fat reserves, i.e. right when you probably need your energy most
- a diet based on nutritional ketosis is probably the easiest, fastest and most reliable way to lose fat (and not be lugging around excess weight, again, when you need to be fast, i.e. in dire times)

These talks on carb-low diets are long and it'll be a while before i'll feel i've run through enough of them. I will add to this thread as i run into more relevant info.
2204
Interesting correlation between what you are saying and the method a physician has been using to reclaim her husband's life from Alzheimer's Disease.  This woman, whose name I cannot recall at the moment, did a lot of research on Alz.Dis. when her husband was diagnosed, and she came across some research that talked about medium-chain fatty acids, or perhaps medium-chain triglycerides.  She studied everyting carefully, then decided to begin dosing her husband (who was told "there is nothing else we can do for you") with small amounts of coconut oil in his morning oatmeal, as coconut oil is one of the fats  that contains medium chain triglycerides.

It turns out that some Alz.Dis. patients have a condition which could be called "diabetes of the brain", sort of like insulin resistance in the brain, and it is these patients that need a ketogenic diet (which can also help others).

Husband was seen to state in a later interview that even on his first morning of receiving coconut oil, he noticed a difference in his mental state within about 30 minutes of ingesting the oil in his oatmeal.  Amazing, eh?  He continues to improve and as soon as I can find the doctor's name, will post it along with one of her youtube videos.

So the ketogenic diet could be considered a "survival food/diet" in more ways than one.

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2017, 11:59:56 PM »
ilinda and Socrates, interesting data on the ketogenic diet.
I know someone who has been dealing with an advanced Neuroendocrine (NET) Cancer of the intestines. She really struggled to survive and the more she learned the higher her chances.
[ http://netcancerday.org/why-the-zebra/  ]

She applied all she already knew of health and a healing lifestyle. She did have to have surgery and chemo. She got it under control with a combination of standard medicine and went on the ketogenic diet. So far, so good.  She mentioned the ketogenic diet to me.

ilinda

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 09:51:03 AM »
ilinda and Socrates, interesting data on the ketogenic diet.
I know someone who has been dealing with an advanced Neuroendocrine (NET) Cancer of the intestines. She really struggled to survive and the more she learned the higher her chances.
[ http://netcancerday.org/why-the-zebra/  ]

She applied all she already knew of health and a healing lifestyle. She did have to have surgery and chemo. She got it under control with a combination of standard medicine and went on the ketogenic diet. So far, so good.  She mentioned the ketogenic diet to me.
There are presumably different variants of Alzheimer's Disease, and thus different original causes.  I do recall that the doctor I had mentioned above who began treating her husband with coconut oil every AM, said in some people, Alz. Dis. is more like "diabetes of the brain".  This explains why some older people I observe seem to start, sometime late in life, eating more and more junk sugary food, probably in an effort to get the glucose to their brains.  But it doesn't work for them, and they are not aware of their "diabetes of the brain" which means their brains cannot get the glucose into the cells.

The ketogenic diet is probably good for most or all of us, but we just don't "go there" until we need it.  Further, in that nine-part video series from The Truth About Cancer, they talk about how the ketogenic diet with no sugars, or exceedingly rare sugars, is perfect for cancer patients, as sugar--especially white, refined stuff--feeds the cancer.  Cancer cells must have sugar, and they cannot survive on the ketogenic diet, as they cannot utilize those medium-chain triglycerides.  Congrats to your friend.

Socrates

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Re: cancer
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 09:52:30 AM »
what i heard a few months ago from an 'alternative' expert is that most types of cancer cannot feed off of ketones and that's why the ketogenic diet helps against cancer.

Having said that, my point is that survival circumstances will get you killed even if you're healthy, if you don't have the energy to deal with them.
I have been up on the top of a mountain, in a deserted valley and in the street without enough to eat. From experience i can tell you that no amount of 'will power' or desperation will keep you going when your body is lacking energy. For one, because your brain is also lacking the nutrition it requires to function properly. Lethargy, many hours of rest per day and excessive sleeping are the result. This is the last thing one wants in a survival situation!!!

Knowing how to heal the sick is important but when you're talking survival, you're talking life-and-death for everyone, i.e. loved ones, innocent, ignorant, children, etc. etc. etc.
Triage... You might wanna consider it at some point. You can't save everyone, certainly if you can't even save yourself.
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Yowbarb

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Re: cancer
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2017, 10:51:00 AM »
what i heard a few months ago from an 'alternative' expert is that most types of cancer cannot feed off of ketones and that's why the ketogenic diet helps against cancer.

Having said that, my point is that survival circumstances will get you killed even if you're healthy, if you don't have the energy to deal with them.
I have been up on the top of a mountain, in a deserted valley and in the street without enough to eat. From experience i can tell you that no amount of 'will power' or desperation will keep you going when your body is lacking energy. For one, because your brain is also lacking the nutrition it requires to function properly. Lethargy, many hours of rest per day and excessive sleeping are the result. This is the last thing one wants in a survival situation!!!

Knowing how to heal the sick is important but when you're talking survival, you're talking life-and-death for everyone, i.e. loved ones, innocent, ignorant, children, etc. etc. etc.
Triage... You might wanna consider it at some point. You can't save everyone, certainly if you can't even save yourself.

Socrates, you have made some important points... my attention has gone to this topic lately like telling myself, who are you kidding the stress alone could kill me I have to toughen up...
I am looking into the ketogenic diet.
There is even a vegetarian form of the ketogenic diet...

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2017, 10:58:22 AM »
ilinda and Socrates, interesting data on the ketogenic diet.
I know someone who has been dealing with an advanced Neuroendocrine (NET) Cancer of the intestines. She really struggled to survive and the more she learned the higher her chances.
[ http://netcancerday.org/why-the-zebra/  ]

She applied all she already knew of health and a healing lifestyle. She did have to have surgery and chemo. She got it under control with a combination of standard medicine and went on the ketogenic diet. So far, so good.  She mentioned the ketogenic diet to me.
There are presumably different variants of Alzheimer's Disease, and thus different original causes.  I do recall that the doctor I had mentioned above who began treating her husband with coconut oil every AM, said in some people, Alz. Dis. is more like "diabetes of the brain".  This explains why some older people I observe seem to start, sometime late in life, eating more and more junk sugary food, probably in an effort to get the glucose to their brains.  But it doesn't work for them, and they are not aware of their "diabetes of the brain" which means their brains cannot get the glucose into the cells.

The ketogenic diet is probably good for most or all of us, but we just don't "go there" until we need it.  Further, in that nine-part video series from The Truth About Cancer, they talk about how the ketogenic diet with no sugars, or exceedingly rare sugars, is perfect for cancer patients, as sugar--especially white, refined stuff--feeds the cancer.  Cancer cells must have sugar, and they cannot survive on the ketogenic diet, as they cannot utilize those medium-chain triglycerides.  Congrats to your friend.
ilinda, thanks for the reminder...There was a time when my intake of refined sugar was no more than about a tsp a day.
I hadn't discovered the exact right balance for myself yet but my weight was not a problem and I had no arthritic symptoms and was predominantly symptom free except for a lifelong tendency to have respiratory infections. (Pneumonia as a child and almost fatal, set me up for that predisposition.)
At any rate it does make sense to cut out sugar...

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2017, 11:11:58 AM »
Yowbarb Note: I am not an expert, by any means on the vegetarian ketogenic diet.
I am posting this in case it can help someone find their exact right lifestyle... In the sites below there are some cautions if a person is used to a lot of carbs, including refined carbs possibly a gradual reduction of these carbs will be more comfortable for the body. There is an adjustment process and this takes some learning and focus. From what I have read this way of eating is going to be right for a lot of people. When I say that, I mean ketogenic, whether vegetarian or not. I person could tweak this to suit kosher or other dietary guidelines, as far as food combining...
...
There is even a vegetarian form of the ketogenic diet.  A few links:


Vegan Keto Experiment: Week one – Food, Info, Ratio:
http://meshell.ca/blog/vegan-keto-experiment-week-one-food-info-ratios/

List of Ketogenic Diet Foods for Vegetarian
Protein Rich Foods for Vegetarian Ketogenic Diet.
Healthy Fat and Oil sources for Vegetarian Ketogenic Diet.
LOW CARB VEGETABLES FOR THE KETOGENIC VEGAN DIET.
DAIRY FOODS FOR THE VEGETARIAN KETOGENIC DIET.
LOW CARB FRUITS FOR KETOGENIC VEGAN DIET.
...
The Ultimate List of Ketogenic Diet Foods for Vegetarian - MyFitFuel.in
www.myfitfuel.in/mffblog/ultimate-list-ketogenic-diet-foods-vegetarian/

Protein Rich Foods For Vegetarian Ketogenic Diet

Almonds(1 oz): Protein – 6 g, Fat – 15 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Pumpkin Seed(1 oz): Protein – 10 g, Fat – 6 g, Fibre – 1 g, Net carbs – 3 g
Almond Flour(1 oz): Protein – 6 g, Fat – 14 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 3 g
Walnuts(1 oz): Protein – 4 g, Fat – 18 g, Fibre – 2 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Flax Seeds(1 oz): Protein – 5 g, Fat – 12 g, Fibre – 7 g, Net carbs – 1 g
Chia Seeds(1 oz): Protein – 4 g, Fat – 9 g, Fibre – 11 g, Net carbs – 1 g
Macadamia Nuts(1 oz): Protein – 2 g, Fat – 21 g, Fibre – 2 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Unsweetened Coconut(1 oz): Protein – 2 g, Fat – 18 g, Fibre – 5 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Hazelnut(1 oz): Protein – 4 g, Fat – 17 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Cashews(1 oz): Protein – 5 g, Fat – 12 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 7 g
Tofu, Silken, Soft(100 g): Protein – 5 g, Fat – 3 g, Fibre – 0 g, Net carbs – 3 g
Tofu, Firm(100 g): Protein – 16 g, Fat – 9 g, Fibre – 2 g, Net carbs – 2 g
Pistachio Nuts(1 oz): Protein – 6 g, Fat – 13 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 5 g
Pecan(1 oz): Protein – 3 g, Fat – 20 g, Fibre – 3 g, Net carbs – 1 g

Healthy Fat And Oil Sources For Vegetarian Ketogenic Diet

Olive Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Avocado Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Coconut Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
MCT Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Red Palm Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Olives, Black(1 oz): Fats – 3 g, Fibres – 1 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 1 g
Avocado(1 oz): Fats – 4 g, Fibres – 2 g, Protein – 1 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Olives, Green(1 oz): Fats – 4 g, Fibres – 1 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Flax Seed Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Macadamia Oil(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g
Cocoa Butter(1 oz): Fats – 28 g, Fibres – 0 g, Protein – 0 g, Net Carbs – 0 g

LOW CARB VEGETABLES FOR THE KETOGENIC VEGAN DIET

Green beans(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 6.4
Collard greens, sliced(1 cup, 1.25 oz): Net Carbs – 0.8
Asparagus(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 2.7
Lettuce (sliced)(1 cup, 1.75 oz): Net Carbs – 0.5
Summer squash(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 3.2
Winter squash (pumpkin)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 9
Celery stalk(3 medium, 4.2 oz): Net Carbs – 1.6
Cucumber(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 2.2
Spinach, cooked(½ cup, 3.2 oz): Net Carbs – 1.2
Kale (Italian dark-leaf)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 2.1
Kale (curly)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 5.4
Cabbage (white)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 5
Cabbage (red)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 7.9
Onion, white (sliced)(¼ cup, 1.4 oz): Net Carbs – 2.2Peppers (green)(4.2 oz): Net Carbs – 3.5
Peppers (red)(4.2 oz): Net Carbs – 4.7
Tomatoes, chopped(1 cup, 6.3 oz): Net Carbs – 4.8
Eggplant (aubergine)(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 3.5
Broccoli, chopped(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 6.1
Garlic(1 clove): Net Carbs – 0.9
Cauliflower(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 4.5
Mushrooms, white(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 3.4
Mushrooms, brown(5.3 oz): Net Carbs – 5.6
Swiss chard, sliced(1 cup, 1.25 oz): Net Carbs – 0.8

DAIRY FOODS FOR THE VEGETARIAN KETOGENIC DIET

Cream (Heavy whipping)(¼ cup): Protein – 1.1 g, Net Carbs – 3 g
Cream (Soured)(¼ cup): Protein – 1.2 g, Net Carbs – 2 g
Cream Cheese(¼ cup): Protein – 3.5 g, Net Carbs – 3 g
Hard full-fat cheese (e.g. cheddar)(2 oz): Protein – 14 g, Net Carbs – 1.6 g
Mozzarella(2 oz): Protein – 13.8 g, Net Carbs – 2 g
Butter(1 tb. Sp.): Protein – 1 g, Net Carbs – ZERO
Plain Greek Yogurt(100 g): Protein – 11 g, Net carbs – 4 g

LOW CARB FRUITS FOR KETOGENIC VEGAN DIET

Raspberries(100 g): Total carbs – 12 g
Blackberries(100 g): Total carbs – 10 g
Strawberries(100 g): Total Carbs – 8 g
Avocado(100 g): Total Carbs – 8 g
Did we miss one of your favourite vegan keto grocery items? Comment below and we’ll add it to the list.

..................................................................................................


Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2017, 11:26:15 AM »
Fish.
Fish. Preferably eating anything that is caught wild like catfish, cod, flounder, halibut, mackerel, mahi-mahi, salmon, snapper, trout, and tuna.
Shellfish. Clams, oysters, lobster, crab, scallops, mussels, and squid.
Whole Eggs. ...
Meat. ...
Pork. ...
Poultry. ...
Bacon and Sausage. ...
Peanut Butter.
Ketogenic Diet Food List: Everything You Need to Know | Ruled Me
...
Some ketogenic diet foods that are great for fats and oils (organic and grass-fed sources are preferred):

Avocado
Beef tallow
Butter
Chicken Fat
Ghee
Non-hydrogenated Lard
Macadamia Nuts
Mayonnaise (watch out for added carbs)
Olive Oil
Coconut Oil
Coconut Butter
Red Palm Oil
Peanut Butter
www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-food-list/  see vegetables...

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2017, 11:29:14 AM »
I personally will not be eating pork, sausage, lard etc.
There are some ketogenic foods on the list, which I crave and which I notice make me feel better such as coconut oil, avocados, butter, ghee, peanut butter, tofu, etc.  Also I like the hazelnuts, brazil nuts, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, even the mayo... Easy to go overboard on fats, but I noticed many years ago all these types of food are not fattening as long as the person doesn't hardly eat any refined carbs. A caution:  Walnuts a great food but only a small handful, please they are high in naturally-occurring arsenic.

Another caution: Read articles on ketogenic it's not for everyone but I'd say, most everyone...

It may take some special lab work to determine if a person can be on the ketogenic diet. Read this, make up your own mind... http://theketogenickitchen.com/ketogenic-contraindications-and-no-nos/
(pancreatitis, gall bladder problems? no, don't do this.)
To me it sounds like most people should be able to eat this way...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 12:02:55 PM by Yowbarb »

Socrates

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Re: vegetarian and ketogenic
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2017, 12:01:04 PM »
I personally will not be eating pork, sausage, lard etc.

coconut oil, avocados, butter, ghee, peanut butter, tofu, etc.  Also I like the hazelnuts, brazil nuts, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, even the mayo...

To me it sounds like most people should be able to eat this way...
Some of the talks i've been listening to on ketogenic diets have made some interesting points regarding the above. The Inuit are discussed and Europeans going up to visit them; it seems the Europeans tended to fill their ships with tons and tons of food, often enough to last them a year [these voyages tended to take a long time]. Then someone came up with the bright idea to learn what the Inuit live off of so they could find food unstead of carry it...

If we're talking survival situations, we're talking loss of resources; we're talking lost resources, finished resources, stolen, etc. etc. How long do nuts keep? How many do you need to purchase, to store, to move?
Animal products are also not my first choice but you can only grow a brazil nut tree in a jungle environment and it'll probably need to be quite mature before it yields any fruit worth mentioning; what will you eat until then?

Feed your rabbits what green you can find and the babies they have will be ready for slaughter in 2 months; as soon as they throw a litter, they're ready to become pregnant again.
Now imagine a harsh world, perhaps largely dealing with nuclear winter; you'll be lucky to keep your rabbits fed, let alone growing trees!

In time i, too, would like to start eating vegan again. In time... That time may be some ways off.
Do you have a supply of nut seeds one can sprout ready? You know the ones you buy to eat commonly have been heated at factories so they will never sprout, right?
Last year i passed by a walnut tree that was dropping walnuts (literally every few seconds). I collected a bunch of these because i know they are special compared to what i might be able to buy in a store. But let's face it; once i have created a place where i might successfully grow walnut trees, i could still be decades away from harvesting nuts.
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Re: vegetarian and ketogenic
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2017, 12:06:31 PM »
I personally will not be eating pork, sausage, lard etc.

coconut oil, avocados, butter, ghee, peanut butter, tofu, etc.  Also I like the hazelnuts, brazil nuts, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, even the mayo...

To me it sounds like most people should be able to eat this way...
Some of the talks i've been listening to on ketogenic diets have made some interesting points regarding the above. The Inuit are discussed and Europeans going up to visit them; it seems the Europeans tended to fill their ships with tons and tons of food, often enough to last them a year [these voyages tended to take a long time]. Then someone came up with the bright idea to learn what the Inuit live off of so they could find food unstead of carry it...

If we're talking survival situations, we're talking loss of resources; we're talking lost resources, finished resources, stolen, etc. etc. How long do nuts keep? How many do you need to purchase, to store, to move?
Animal products are also not my first choice but you can only grow a brazil nut tree in a jungle environment and it'll probably need to be quite mature before it yields any fruit worth mentioning; what will you eat until then?

Feed your rabbits what green you can find and the babies they have will be ready for slaughter in 2 months; as soon as they throw a litter, they're ready to become pregnant again.
Now imagine a harsh world, perhaps largely dealing with nuclear winter; you'll be lucky to keep your rabbits fed, let alone growing trees!

In time i, too, would like to start eating vegan again. In time... That time may be some ways off.
Do you have a supply of nut seeds one can sprout ready? You know the ones you buy to eat commonly have been heated at factories so they will never sprout, right?
Last year i passed by a walnut tree that was dropping walnuts (literally every few seconds). I collected a bunch of these because i know they are special compared to what i might be able to buy in a store. But let's face it; once i have created a place where i might successfully grow walnut trees, i could still be decades away from harvesting nuts.

Socrates, really good points.
Almost as soon as I typed my list I thought well, that will be quite a task keeping those staples around. Yes, long long time to grow these foods.
A person can try. Good idea on the sprouting etc.
Rabbits could make the difference between a group of people starving to death or making it, very true.

Socrates

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Re: nuts
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2017, 10:23:24 PM »
Ironically, after TSHTF and you'll (only) be enjoying the nuts of your own trees, such nuts keep for a very long time.
A few years a go i ran into this guy i knew who was on his way to harvest Turkish hazelnuts; i went with and got myself about 2 quarts worth. It's a work to crack the smallish nuts open so i still have most of them. When i tried one a while back [i.e. they are years old] it still tasted very fresh.

As i said, factories tend to dry nuts at high temperature, not because they're trying to cook them, just to get them to dry quickly, efficiently and cheaply. Unfortunately the process half cooks them. Therefore they tend not to sprout nor keep very long.
Harvesting your own is much much better and then nuts make a great survival food.

P.S.: an FYI on brazil nuts; the brazil nuts one can purchase in their shell contain twice as much selenium as the already broken ones do. This has nothing to do with breaking them; it's just that they come from different places.
Local nut shops no longer stock whole brazil nuts around here but one shop owner said he could order them if the order was at least 10 kg worth... Which is quite the investment, actually. On the other hand, going off to Brazil after end of the world in search of brazil nuts is also quite the work...
Brazil nuts are one of those species [like cocoa or acai] that will only grow in a jungle environment. Just so you know; you can't plant a lone tree and expect it to thrive (or fruit).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 10:34:51 PM by Socrates »
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Socrates

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Re: rabbits
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2017, 11:08:12 PM »
i may be repeating myself here but this thread is on survival food and i feel i should elaborate on the rabbit issue. You see, survival [as i've mentioned before] is largely about calories. And though the ketogenic diet concerns accessible calories and that's a valid concern, there's also the matter of quantity of calories one can reasonably expect to acquire. And, unfortunately for fans of veganism or vegetarianism (like myself), animals are the most practical source of calories in survival situations. Proteins contain as many calories per gram as carbs do and fats have 9 kcal/gr compared to the 4 proteins and carbs provide.

But it's not just about the results, it's also about how you get there. You see, you can grow a field of barley and enjoy the fruits of said field after a season, but your result is based on waiting a season and the expectation that the Sun will give enough sunlight for the barley to produce fruit. But what about very bad years? What about nuclear winters? What about the year without a summer? What about the year without sunlight? What about waiting many months before you have anything to eat?!

Rabbits, however, are true vegetarians. Unlike wannabe-vegetarian people calling themselves vegetarians [i myself consistently refer to the "vegetarian diet" rather than my person], rabbits will eat all manner of greens and do just fine. They build up muscle and fat that we humans can then consume just like carnivores (though we are not carnivores, biologically speaking, just like we're not vegetarians [nor are we omnivores, FYI]).
(Ideally, humans would eat a diet of starches and botanical fruits [i.e. including nuts], but survival is not about ideals.)
But not only that, rabbits keep indefinately; your barley needs to be harvested within a few week period but your rabbits are ready to harvest whenever you get hungry. It doesn't matter if they are a year or two old. They are the ultimate resource compared to anything one might grow. [And don't forget you need loads of sunlight to dry your grains for storage!]

Of all the animals one might keep, rabbits have the optimal effort-to-produce ratio.
- you can keep them in a cage [again, not ideal, but, again, talking survival]
- their offspring can be slaughtered at 2 months
- they are ready to mate at 6 months
- they are ready to mate again immediately after giving birth
Now, if you love your bunnies you will not make the females have more than 2 litter per year; they will obviously get burned out by constant breeding. But, again, considering survival, one can opt to replace breeding females regularly with new ones since they are ready to breed after a mere 6 months.

Practically speaking, one can walk around for hours and hours without finding anything to eat while in fact running into tons of food your rabbits might be able to survive on. Again, we are much like the orangutan, another frugavore species: biologically speaking we would be walking from one fruit-bearing tree to the next. But, hell, even rabbits become cannibals if left long enough without food! You need to eat. But we, at least, can be intellectual [if not intelligent] about the matter and plan accordingly.

A small breed of rabbit might even be kept on one's back at all times in case of emergency. Seriously. The only other option is having a tin of crickets or silkworms with you; now what would you rather be eating for the next couple of years...?
I remind all: survival is about information and animals contain genetic information that can be lost. Get a good breed of dog, get yourself some rabbits and preferably get yourself some good bugs [like silkworms and bees], as well [i mean, at the very least]. You'll need the carbs [thinking: honey], fats and proteins they provide to survive. Think redundancy and diversification, for this is intelligent.

P.S.: consider charcuterie for keeping meats longterm.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 01:32:42 AM by Socrates »
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ilinda

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Re: nuts
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2017, 03:13:59 PM »
Ironically, after TSHTF and you'll (only) be enjoying the nuts of your own trees, such nuts keep for a very long time.
A few years a go i ran into this guy i knew who was on his way to harvest Turkish hazelnuts; i went with and got myself about 2 quarts worth. It's a work to crack the smallish nuts open so i still have most of them. When i tried one a while back [i.e. they are years old] it still tasted very fresh.

As i said, factories tend to dry nuts at high temperature, not because they're trying to cook them, just to get them to dry quickly, efficiently and cheaply. Unfortunately the process half cooks them. Therefore they tend not to sprout nor keep very long.
Harvesting your own is much much better and then nuts make a great survival food.

P.S.: an FYI on brazil nuts; the brazil nuts one can purchase in their shell contain twice as much selenium as the already broken ones do. This has nothing to do with breaking them; it's just that they come from different places.
Local nut shops no longer stock whole brazil nuts around here but one shop owner said he could order them if the order was at least 10 kg worth... Which is quite the investment, actually. On the other hand, going off to Brazil after end of the world in search of brazil nuts is also quite the work...
Brazil nuts are one of those species [like cocoa or acai] that will only grow in a jungle environment. Just so you know; you can't plant a lone tree and expect it to thrive (or fruit).
Glad you brought this topic up, as my Delaware friend has Black Walnut trees (among much else edible) and every year she harvests many, many pounds of them, and does all the initial processing herself, which means removing the thick green outer hull.  Then she leaves the nuts in their hard shells, intact, and in that state they can remain fresh for some years, as long as there are no holes in the shell.  I envy her walnut stores!

She eats a few walnuts almost every day, as she told me they help prevent strokes, presumably due to their healthful mineral mix, healthy fat, etc.  One time she mentioned she probably has enough to last her several years, even during a few non-productive years.