Author Topic: getting lost in numbers...  (Read 647 times)

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
getting lost in numbers...
« on: January 01, 2017, 08:53:30 AM »
years... percentages... history... It's all a numbers 'game'; but it's not a game, it's life or death and it's real life.

i am not a mathemetician; i am a philosopher, if anything, i.e. my thoughts tend to be meta, even my thoughts on numbers, commonly considered the arena of 'techs' and such folk.

Numbers are part of DATA. And data is just data; it's important, it's essential, but it's just a resource. And stupid people make stupid things of data; it's important that data is used for useful things and not abused to show what is right to be wrong or the other way around.

DATA, LOGIC and COMMON SENSE have a kind of hierarchy; data and logic can be used (or abused) by madness.
Vague?
No! This is practical! We are cerebral beings too, just like we're also natural, intuitive, spiritual, instinctual and emotional. But it's mainly our cerebral nature that has gotten mankind out of caves and into the high-tech society we all know and love (or hate...).
Common sense is what makes the difference between 'mad genius' or human intelligence; common sense is what makes the difference between being sane or insane.
And common sense has a few things to say about numbers that popular culture ignores completely.


This is a forum on TEOTWAWKI, if you will and i'll have my philisophical considerations reflect that.
Let's take ideas about 26-million-year orbits that might bring about a 'Nibiru'; yeah, so if Earth was destroyed 26 million years ago, then what happened to mankind in the interim? I mean, mankind's culture goes back a few THOUSAND years. Hello, people; a million is 1000 x 1000; that means that you have even thousands of years unaccounted for just before you get to the first million!, let alone another 25 of them. So any considerations concerning destruction that only comes by every 26,000,000 are moot. Such considerations might make sense if it was about destruction that comes by every 26 THOUSAND [26,000] years, but then you're left with 1000 x the same period unaccounted for; what was mankind doing for those millions of years, hmmm?

So then we all get to the matter of genetics. Well, this is where the crazy really hits home, since no one seems to have a problem believing in [and, yeah, it really seems like some religious concept] a race of cerebrally superior beings coming about in the matter of a few thousand years of evolution. Well, that's just crazy from a multiple of angles. For one, after god-knows how many millions of years of evolution we are only 2% different from a chimp and just a few more from a chicken or worm; yet on the one hand we can accept that chimpansees took perhaps at least 10's of millions of years to evolve but on the other hand we readily accept that mankind evolved in a fraction of that time; however, that wasn't an evolution of some mouse-like mammalian ancestor into a primate, we're talking about the evolution of (supposedly) the Earth's first cerebral being. Are we chicken liver here?! That's just crazy talk; ya don't get from chimp to human 'overnight'. All genetics oppose such thinking. And even if it didn't, if it were so damn easy to evolve into a cerebral species, chances [numbers!] dictate that such evolution must've happened thousands of times already in the Earth's past billions of years.
If you put faith in that kind of odds, do yourself a favor and never step into a casino, for they will rob you blind there... (Or don't fool around with chemistry, for you'll get yourself killed in a matter of weeks, i'm sure.)

So you think the Anunnaki might have engineered mankind? If you do, you're in good company [my own, in fact]. However, that took place 250,000 to 400,000 years ago. So where do numbers take us there?
If mankind has been around for at least a quarter of a million years, then where the hell are our ancestor's creations? I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to build a dam or a wall or dig a canal; where are these magnificent creations our ancestors must've been creating in the course of hundreds of thousands of years?! But all we have are a few [around 3300 in fact] large constructs like the pyramids and Puma Punku. So, first of all, why just large constructs? Why wouldn't smaller ones survive? And while we're talking about Puma Punku, how the hell did those massive and unbelievably heavy rocks get knocked off of one another? If even the large, massive and durable [they're made of one of the hardest rocks known to man] ones suffer such fates, no wonder anything smaller didn't make it...
But, no, mankind was in the gutter [i.e. the 'Stone Age'] just 10,000 years ago. WTF? What is up with that?
What happened for the rest of those quarter of a million years? And don't forget, in the past thousands of years people all over the world throughout history have shown to be inventive and explorational and curious; are we to believe mankind was sitting around on it's collective hands living in caves for 240,000 years and then somehow miraculously became some kind of different species 10,000 years ago?
What church do you belong to?, i would ask...


Numbers, people. They have to add up. That's not about being anal. Hey, i know we all would like answers and we hate being in the dark, but stabbing around in the dark ain't gonna make things any more illuminated. When you sacrifice common sense, you just end up getting lost in data and logic. There's really no point. You're better off with no clue at all than running off in some direction determined by hope or hopelessness.

The scientific data and common sense suggest that the Earth is regularly buffeted by cosmic destruction every 13,000 years or so, with smaller destruction every few thousand in between. And there are multiple scientific disciplines putting out such numbers, independently of one another.
Mankind has not been around a few thousand years. Therefore, our ancestors were our genetic equals [if not superiors!]. Therefore they would've been making bunkers too. And yet, none of them made it. The only ones who made it were a handful of folks who happened to be near a good cave with a few supplies WTSHTF. Then they crawled out of said caves after a while and passed down their survivor tales which were in turn passed down through the millennia to us.

The moral of all of these numbers and common sense is that you have to get back to basics. For one, you have to respect your ancestors; they were neither stupid, inferior, suicidal, lacking a will to live or incapable of knowing what hit them beforehand. The numbers and the common sense decree that they died because whatever happens every 13,000 years or so is so darn destructive that your survival thinking had better be way way wayyy outside the box if you're gonna make it through it this time around.


Numbers; people get lost in numbers. And numbers bereft of common sense get people killed.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 09:14:19 AM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Both other people's and your own failures are not your problem...
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2017, 11:17:35 PM »
it's important that data is used for useful things and not abused to show what is right to be wrong or the other way around.
A few years ago i came across this expression through Facebook which just about became my most favorite one in the world:

A culture is determined as much by what it refuses to destroy
as it is by what it is able to create

Again, that's really about numbers, for it's a matter of adding and subtracting: if you create 1 thing but destroy another 1, your end result = 0. You know, like modern culture creates zoos so children can go see live exotic species, but then we destroy the habitats of said species so they go extinct in the wild... The end result is pathetic. All the same most modern folk would pat themselves on their back for the existence of zoos... but did zoos really demand the extinction of hundreds of species each and every year? Yeah, we have zoos but we have lost so much at the same time. And such things determine the quality of modern culture as much as what it has to offer.


On a personal level the same applies: you look to what you have accomplished and say: "Look at me!" On the other hand, other people tend to look at the whole picture and say: "Yeah, that person accomplished some things but failed in other areas; not impressed..."
In the arena of TEOTWAWKI i guess this might translate as: It's good you're looking into things most people ignore, but what is the QUALITY of your work?
And then we tend to overemphasize the good and ignore the bad, as if somehow ignoring the bad makes the end result any better... 'Cause it don't...


I don't suffer from alcoholism or know anybody personally who does, but i once heard this story during an interview of the essence of dealing with alcoholism that stuck with me:
People dealing with alcoholism tend to make excuses for alcoholics, but the people who overcome this are the people who draw a line and say: "I don't care; it just has to STOP". And the people who keep asking themselves WHY? [i.e. the alcoholic they're dealing with is doing what they're doing] continue to suffer and don't get around to resolving their issues.
In other words: at some point ya gotta stop asking WHY? and deal with the hand you were dealt. Yeah, and draw a line: This sh!t has just got to STOP! It is just not acceptable.
What point am i trying to make here? Well, for starters, it doesn't matter how many people opt for either suicide or poor survival choices; it's just not your problem. Why does the alcoholic do what he or she does? Caring doesn't mean allowing others to drag you down with them. Wish them the best, share what you can and then get on with saving your own life. Hey, perhaps your example will make a difference when nothing else ever could. You don't know and that's okay.

Similarly so, when it comes to considerations concerning TEOTWAWKI your own excuses for poor quality of considerations and choices don't matter either; only the end result matters: are your preparations gonna cut it?
You may be willing and able to accept poor quality but the Cosmos / 'God' / fate is deaf to your excuses, just as those compentent with dealing with alcoholism are deaf to excuses alcoholics bring to the table. In the end it's simple: the buck stops HERE!

Let's bring it back to that classic expression (i believe society should live by): You will be judged as much by what you refused to destroy as by what you were able to create; what logic, reason or integrity did you have to destroy to create the end result of your preparations? For if you had to 'destroy' anything inherently good, you are in serious trouble.
Things like 'wishful thinking', hope and desperation seduce us into making judgement calls we will regret in the future... And no matter how culturally or politically correct, if you're out to achieve good end results, you're gonna need to be drawing lines at some point.

Now, people who 'draw lines' don't win popularity contests; they are deemed anal, difficult, 'high-maintenance', etc. But you don't make an omelot without breaking eggs; to get to the nitty-gritty of things, you're gonna have to cut ties and commit to some 'social triage' at times.
You will be judged by the results you produce, not by your level of discomfort or some such things. Life-or-death is the ultimate judge and no matter how 'justified', politically correct or 'understandable' your failings were, history will decide your fate based on how successful you were in dealing with the hand you are now being dealt...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:38:10 AM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
the problem with popular cultural mores in relation to TEOTWAWKI
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 11:26:28 PM »
Similarly so, when it comes to considerations concerning TEOTWAWKI your own excuses for poor quality of considerations and choices don't matter either; only the end result matters: are your preparations gonna cut it?
[editorial note: i edited my initial post yesterday a few times]

Popular culture is big on cosmetics and people like myself are shunned by many because we've given up on niceties that are not only expected but often demanded of others. Why do folks like me do that? 'cause all those niceties didn't compensate for the lack of content and quality that common sense and humanity demand...

Life experience has taught me that in the end it is competence that matters (most). Like this one time i had to work with this decidedly rough fellow who was however not only quite competent at the work he did but more so than others. And i found myself preferring to work with him (and people like him) over people who are very friendly and easy-going but who do poor work.
Wouldn't i prefer someone who does good work and who is also friendly and easy-going? Of course i would; unfortunately, often one can't have it both ways and one has to choose.

In my experience there are a lot of people who are typically incompetent, shallow and superficial who are sticklers for etiquet; they boycot people who have become disenfranchised with etiquet and social forms, demanding they submit to the demands of cultural norms or otherwise piss off; i believe there are many people who obsess over form for lack of content; therefore, if they push me away for my lack of form, it is actually a blessing in disguise, for association with such people only leads to whatever superficial people have to offer, which is generally not much at all...


I have in my own life fathered 3 children and all 3 were taken from me. If you are a father yourself, you know what a big deal that is. But all of the so-called laws and all of the social mores prevalent in (Dutch) society did not prevent all this from taking place. So excuse me for not being impressed...
I was never one for form over fact but after my 30-odd years as an adult in this 'modern culture' we supposedly enjoy in The Netherlands, my take on things has become decidedly cynical; as far as i'm concerned the EOTWAWKI has already taken place.
Of course, you're probably thinking, losing your children is nothing like losing your life; well, if you're a parent, perhaps you might reconsider any such knee-jerk reaction...

In the end, though, my personal dramas are my own and none of your concern. Having said that, a culture that thinks nothing of destroying people's lives for the sake of protocols and procedures cannot be truly deemed human and though mankind's cultures in previous millennia might have been 'more humane' by default, our own age is certainly no improvement.

Modern culture [what so many call "civilisation" no matter how uncivilized it gets... I call it "sophisticated barbarism" myself] has already destroyed so much of nature and 'humanity'; an ending to it might be construed as being overdue or appropriate. However, even appropriate or understandable exasperation with modern culture does not mean that mankind is better off committing mass suicide.

Popular culture actually ignores mankind's greatest revelations and achievements. Permaculture, for instance, now teaches us how to grow soil, based on techniques from throughout the ages and all over the world and all through history. And thanks to the internet this knowledge is now shared and concentrated into a centralized teaching. Such knowledge is also a product of 'modern culture'. And it would be a shame to lose the good with the bad.

Ironically, mankind's greatest achievements are as yet not appreciated by modern culture. However, for us as preppers, we can pick-n-choose; we do not have to abide by what is 'modern', popular or accepted as common knowledge. We can discard the bs and carry on with those things mankind has learned of value. These we can pass on to the next generation, ignoring all the bs and politically-correct crap our own age is addicted and subservient to.

This is our great legacy, challenge and hope; that we might pass on mankind's greatness to the next age and give our descendents a head-start our ancestors 10,000 years ago never enjoyed.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 11:36:50 PM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01