Author Topic: What NOT to know...  (Read 1707 times)

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
What NOT to know...
« on: February 21, 2017, 05:27:30 AM »
'Urban myths', misdirection, disinformation, fallacies, mistakes... There are many things people in our time believe, accept or assume are true that really aren't. That's bad enough on the surface of it, but many such things will hurt you or even get you killed when you make poor choices based on them. I suggest a list of examples, like...

AGRICULTURE
The word itself is a misnomer, stemming from the words for "field" + "care", for (conventional) agriculture is really about manipulating, keeping down and laying waste to fields, not caring for them.
One of the reasons this should be seen in this light is because conventional farmers are constantly at odds with nature and fighting against it. So so-called weeds are constantly being culled as well as all other lifeforms that naturally come into a field. Now, people who practice polyculture, who don't fertilize and who don't plough have no such problems. The problems come about when a farmer is fighting to establish a monocrop, which is an affront to nature. And worst of all, the end-result of all that fighting is that fields end up impoverished [as testified by 30% desertified arable lands worldwide already].

Proper animal husbandry, no-till farming and horticulture are a few examples of how one works with nature, i.e. how one actually cares for it. However, agriculture mainly came about as empires spread out all over the world and demanded cash crops of their new slaves and subjects in order to milk their conquered lands for all they were worth and to supply their armies and folks at the center of power with quick, easy and cheap food.
In fact, it is no exaggeration to state that conventional agriculture and authoritarian government have always gone hand-in-hand.

So whatever you do, you would be quite foolish to follow that model in any post-apocalyptic scenario. You don't go growing monocrops, ploughing the land and cutting down forests unless you're actually out to destroy an area. For any short-term gains you acquire will quickly dry up. The price of ignorance.
(Please see the posts under permaculture if any of this is news to you.)
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 08:52:06 AM »
Based on Alice Miller's decades of research into the terrifying results of the conventional ways of treating babies, i would say that just about the worst thing you can do in the world, as far as the future of society is concerned, is to demand things of babies and cause them to suffer when they don't deliver.
What the hell am i talking about?

Look, i went to a [children's!!!] hospital with my newborn daughter because we couldn't get her to drink and we thought she was becoming lethargic from hunger; this nurse pops a bottle into her mouth and gets her to drink in a second, to this woman's credit, but what i remember most about this woman and the incident is how she remarked concerning my daughter (who was not yet 1 day old [again: !!!]) that she needed to get used to it [i forget what she was referring to].
So, can a baby get used to anything? Well, let's put it this way...

A mature dog has the intellect of a 2-year-old child; it took about 2 years getting there.
A mature chimpanzee has the intellect of a 6-year-old child, which takes about 10 years.
So how smart is a newborn human...?

Human beings are intellectually the prime species on the planet, with brains 3 x as large as that of chimps, but that doesn't mean we are born geniuses.
The truth is that babies can't really be conditioned to do anything for about the first 6 months of their lives. During this time they are driven almost exclusively by instinct. And that may sound confounding or disappointing to parents who'd like their offspring to turn into some 'Einstein or other' ASAP... but that's just reality.


However, socially, culturally and morally we all appear to have a bit of a problem accepting such common sense, as my example with the nurse above illustrates. But the fact is that no matter how much consistency, suffering or thought you put into making your little 'mini-Me' jump through hoops, sh!ts gonna take some time...

On the other hand, you can be assured that if you cause babies to suffer [i.e. no matter what good intentions motivate you], research suggests strongly that this will inevitably come to bite you in the ass...
Love, unconditional love, may sound quaint to most folks; i don't know. But what i do know is that research shows that if you do not give babies unconditional love, devotion and attention that this results in psychological scarring that leads to trauma [obviously] but more importantly, to paranoia, stupidity and [literally] insanity.

Look at the world we live in...
'nuff said
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 09:02:49 AM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

ilinda

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 12:55:47 PM »

Look, i went to a [children's!!!] hospital with my newborn daughter because we couldn't get her to drink and we thought she was becoming lethargic from hunger; this nurse pops a bottle into her mouth and gets her to drink in a second, to this woman's credit, but what i remember most about this woman and the incident is how she remarked concerning my daughter (who was not yet 1 day old [again: !!!]) that she needed to get used to it [i forget what she was referring to].
So, can a baby get used to anything? Well, let's put it this way...
Look at the world we live in...
'nuff said
Do you think your newborn daughter did not care for the taste of your water?  Was it chlorinated?  Fluoridated?

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Re: drinking
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 07:10:05 PM »
it was, apparently, a matter of technique.
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Re: wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 10:06:11 PM »
The truth is that babies can't really be conditioned to do anything for about the first 6 months of their lives. During this time they are driven almost exclusively by instinct.
Of course one can also break in a baby, much like the opposite of horse whispering. So when i was just a few weeks old and my parents thought i cried too much, the doctor [sic] suggested just leaving me in the kitchen to holler myself to sleep. I apparently cried non-stop for 2 whole nights. After that i stopped crying so my parents must've considered me 'trained' to do what's necessary. But what really happened was the creation of a trauma. I had to go through this rebirthing experience dealing with it, more than 30 years later.
So, yeah, you can bend your baby to your will, but that's not training; you didn't teach it anything. It's like having a sore arm so you cut the arm off; problem solved...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:19:59 PM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
wrong: alcohol, tobacco, spices, salt and fats r bad 4 u
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 10:31:12 PM »
So let's be frank here; i'm from Holland, one of the 2 countries in the world where Calvinism really took hold [the other being Switserland]. (If you don't know what Calvinism is, you really need to brush up on your history and remember: those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.)

Many of the readers here will be Americans, but even if you're not from the U.S.A., American political, economic and cultural [Hollywood!] pressure has influenced the world; well, folks, many of your puritan values came from... us, i.e. the Dutch, i.e. Calvinist mofos spreading their moral judgements across the globe. "How?", you might ask; well, 500 years ago Europe was a mess and 'Holland' was a unique little enclave of science and humane culture [long story]. The Dutch were also putting out great sea-faring ships at a rate of 1 a week! This tiny nation [the size of modern London!] rivaled the British Empire...

But this post is not about Dutch pride; rather, it is about moral values and where the hell they come from.
You see, the Dutch had a lot to do with the establishment of American culture, American power and American domination over the world today. Of course, most Americans have no friggin' clue about all of this, as plebs just tend to take the status quo for granted...
Anyway, my point is that many modern morals actually stem from Calvinist roots and these in turn stem from Holland [really, people, "Holland" are just 2 of our 11 'provinces' and we prefer to refer to ourselves as "The Netherlands"]. And there ain't nothin' particularly sane or preferable about Calvinism... It is basically, like: "Life's a bitch and then you die"...; ever wonder where that expression came from? Well, it was from Calvinists.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, Calvinists and their descendants with their Calvinist values, believe that life = suffering. To put it bluntly, anything that expands the enjoyment of life = damnation. [Yeah, they were pretty fewked up...]
So things like tobacco and alcohol were obviously condemned as a matter of course.
No matter that all long-lived cultures cultivated such matters; we're talking religion and axiomatic morals. So be sure we're discussing insane morality here...

So-called "American/puritan" values, therefore, are really "Calvinistic" values that originally came from Holland [i.e. one of the 2 countries that embraced Calvinism, but which also produced ships to haul emmigrants and (religious) fugitives from Europe to the Americas].
Again: Know your history or be doomed to relive it...


So, we come to modern problems with the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, spices, salts and fats...
Look, if people all over the globe have been consuming alcohol, tobacco, spices, salts and fats for millennia and doing fine by them, it's really conceited to say all of a sudden YOU know better. C'mon; based on what?
Well, the answer is: "Based on religious doctrine"..., i.e. Calvinism.

The scientific and historical truth of the matter is that there is no reason whatsoever to condemn these matters. It may be popular, cultural and politically correct to do so, but after the plebs [i.e. the populus], modern culture and the political body have disappeared from the face of the Earth [i.e. after a global cataclysm], all you're left with is science, fact and human reality.

Alcohol is not only (simply) a source of energy, but it is linked to probiotic systems that support health and digestion.
Tobacco is just an herb that helps bring things deeper into the lungs, one of the body's main forms of ingestion.
Spices offer all kinds of unique minerals and other useful substances.
Salt can be `sodium chloride` or `seasalt`; the one is toxic, the other nutritional. We've been hearing for decades to cut down on salt but that was about cutting down on sodium chloride [i.e. "table salt"], which is just a part of the salt found in seawater. The other [90!] minerals to be found in seawater are essential minerals to either add to soil or to your G.I tract.
Fats have been demonized by a pharmaceutical interest in selling people billions of dollars worth of statin drugs to lower cholesterol. All of this is, ultimately, based on some random piece of research from about 100 years ago on rabbits... [!] The medical truth is that high cholesterol levels mean your body is producing vast amounts of the things that protect you and low cholesterol levels have been proven to lead to ill health and even death. But drugs that lower cholesterol levels are such a profitable business that the truth is damned in the process of distributing them.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:16:42 PM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Re: tobacco/fat/salt/spices/alcohol
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 11:49:54 PM »
But, again, let us be very frank and clear here; people tend to seek compromise between modern values and scientific ones, admitting that moralistic condemnation is inappropriate but then saying things like: "Okay, so i can take more (sea)salt; but salt is still bad unless in moderation, right?"
I cannot stress enough...: NOOO...!!!

Why would you seek to find compromise with EVIL?!
If salt = bad is wrong, then do not seek a compromise with it!


Independent [i.e. 'alternative'] research is clearly showing that large amounts of things like fats, salts and spices are actually very beneficial to your health. Yes, we are then talking about GOOD sources of these things; still, the truth is clear: more = good.

A diet consisting of plenty of good quality fats is not only feasible but apparently offers many very important benefits, if not outright advantages.
So what about salt, spices, tobacco and alcohol?

Well, i just posted on this Chinese gentleman who lived to be 256 years old on a diet of herbs and rice wine. And then i've posted on the benefits of hive products and people living to be 150 years old drinking mainly mead. So, should we be drinking alcohol in moderation?
You decide, but the proof is in the pudding!

Cultures where daily consumption of large quantities of spices are a common part of the diet have fared very well.

Salt is such a valued commodity that entire economies have been based on the acquisition and distribution of it.

And people all over the world, throughout the ages, have enjoyed the benefits of smoking tobacco.


The only reason to limit your intake of such items is cultural/moralistic/political/modern. But you should also realize that if you have been limiting your intake of good items for many years, you should not only change your habits, but you might also have some catching up to do.
Just be aware of what is driving your choices.
Your body will clearly tell you when you've had enough. Like with salt; if you taste food and say: "Hmm, nice and salty" or "Hey, that could use some more salt", then your body is saying you're doing fine. If you find the saltiness repulsive, you know you've had enough. The judge? 'God', 'nature', the universe... You don't need a religion to tell you when you're hungry and you don't need morals to tell you when something is too salty or not salty enough.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 12:05:16 AM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

ilinda

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 03:36:52 PM »
The truth is that babies can't really be conditioned to do anything for about the first 6 months of their lives. During this time they are driven almost exclusively by instinct.
Of course one can also break in a baby, much like the opposite of horse whispering. So when i was just a few weeks old and my parents thought i cried too much, the doctor [sic] suggested just leaving me in the kitchen to holler myself to sleep. I apparently cried non-stop for 2 whole nights. After that i stopped crying so my parents must've considered me 'trained' to do what's necessary. But what really happened was the creation of a trauma. I had to go through this rebirthing experience dealing with it, more than 30 years later.
So, yeah, you can bend your baby to your will, but that's not training; you didn't teach it anything. It's like having a sore arm so you cut the arm off; problem solved...
Fascinating story because a very, very similar story happened in my own family.    One family member who is now grown was the first born.  At that time here in the U.S. some (most?  all?) doctors told the mothers not to spoil the child, and if she cries, just let her cry.  Do not spoil her by picking her up, because she will then be demanding, etc., etc., and manipulate, etc., et.  So the mother did not pick the baby up much, nor did the father, because being "approval junkies" and believing that the doctor knows best, they allowed the little girl to cry and cry and cry.  In fact, in baby pictures and childhood pictures, the now-grown woman is rarely seen smiling.

I'm sure she has experienced long-term emotional and psychological damage, from perhaps not feeling loved (babies NEED to be held and caressed!), and who knows what else she suffered.  Even when I heard the story as a child, I somehow instinctively knew she should have been held.  Strange what people do to seek approval from the authority figures in their lives.

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30794
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 06:05:19 PM »
The truth is that babies can't really be conditioned to do anything for about the first 6 months of their lives. During this time they are driven almost exclusively by instinct.
Of course one can also break in a baby, much like the opposite of horse whispering. So when i was just a few weeks old and my parents thought i cried too much, the doctor [sic] suggested just leaving me in the kitchen to holler myself to sleep. I apparently cried non-stop for 2 whole nights. After that i stopped crying so my parents must've considered me 'trained' to do what's necessary. But what really happened was the creation of a trauma. I had to go through this rebirthing experience dealing with it, more than 30 years later.
So, yeah, you can bend your baby to your will, but that's not training; you didn't teach it anything. It's like having a sore arm so you cut the arm off; problem solved...

Hi Socrates, I wasn't able to post for a couple days had to loan my keyboard to my daughter. Just wanted to acknowledge your posts here, very valuable.
I can (totally) relate to what you said about being left to cry. That happened to me and I did the exact opposite with my children. I was not a perfect mother but I always sought to uplift them, comfort them, ease their fears - and yes, picked them up when they cried...
There was always someone on the sidelines trying to criticize my parenting, but my five kids have turned out well.

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30794
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: What NOT to know...
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 06:09:46 PM »
PS sometimes it just takes a little datum to help a young mother who is not understanding her child's crying.
My youngest grandkid Dylan was actually a really well balanced little tot  :) but at times would get all fussy and cry. I had read some kids just need a drink of water. So I told my daughter that as I held him and offered a sip of water.  Daughter felt sad about it, not having realized her little boy was just thirsty!  :'( He had a greater thirst than her other son.
The boys were quite agile and coordinated and bright so I put a little stool in front of the sink and left cups there. They were able to get themselves a drink of water.  8) She had also been giving them tommy tippee mugs but it wasn't enough...so she started taking more responsibility for keeping them provided with water. Each kid is different.
My youngest daughter (same daughter in teh story above) was a fussy little thing. My bro pointed out she may need food or juice sooner so I gave her juice. I made it a higher priority to give her a little mug of juice, faster! Her blood sugar would go low... I figured that out years later when it was proven medically. It is a temptation to think of a fussy kid as a little brat but that is usually not the case at all. Except for being hungry or teething my kids actually did not cry much...

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30794
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: What NOT to know...
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2017, 06:15:23 PM »
Also it is often the bright and healthy ones who are rather demanding. Being noisy and energetic is not a character flaw, either.
Better to keep them comfortable and contented and busy than to try to "train" them to be more malleable and easy to manage.
 ;D

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30794
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: wrong: babies can be trained
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2017, 06:20:08 PM »

Of course one can also break in a baby, much like the opposite of horse whispering. So when i was just a few weeks old and my parents thought i cried too much, the doctor [sic] suggested just leaving me in the kitchen to holler myself to sleep. I apparently cried non-stop for 2 whole nights. After that i stopped crying so my parents must've considered me 'trained' to do what's necessary. But what really happened was the creation of a trauma. I had to go through this rebirthing experience dealing with it, more than 30 years later.
So, yeah, you can bend your baby to your will, but that's not training; you didn't teach it anything. It's like having a sore arm so you cut the arm off; problem solved...

Socrates, I should mention I wasn't left in the kitchen to cry for three days but left in my crib at night or in the AM, crying. An unattended child can get too cold too, an endangerment to health.

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
the 'punishment paradigm'
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2017, 10:29:27 PM »
Most cultures are authoritarian but it should be understood that based on research, this is not a natural or (psychologically) healthy model for human beings.

As the Milgram Experiment demonstrates, some 75% of folks will torture a complete stranger to death for no other reason than some authority figure compells them to. And though authoritarian forces bend over backwards to make us believe that result can be attributed to mankind's nature, the truth is that the 25% who do not [!] agree to continue the experiment are the ones that are acting naturally and in accordance with a psychologically healthy state of being.
The other 75% have likely received the traumatic conditioning as infants that Alice Miller researched in her decades of work and publishing [see her book For Your Own Good].

Whether one is traumatized or no, belonging to the 25% or to the 75%, we all live in a culture that is mainly defined by the traumatized majority. Said culture, therefore, contains all kinds of trademarks typical of authoritarian folk, i.e. those willing and able to torture someone to death for no good reason whatsoever.
Whether you're talking taxes [stealing by government], prisons, mandatory governmental schooling, centralized power, copyright or whatever, basically it's all just about traumatized folk living out their infant traumas.

But let me just focus on one example here: punishment and imprisonment.
Now, this forum is probably read by people within American culture and it is well known that that is notorius for imprisoning about 10 x as many people as other industrial countries do; so if you feel a need to defend your culture or the system you grew up in, just know that i, too, grew up in the States and i know all about how Americans feel these parts of their world are common place. But they really aren't, at least by any standards in the world besides American ones.

Even in the Bible there was no such thing as imprisonment. And it's not like they were all lovey dovey! But the Bible speaks of retribution, revenge, exile, death and forgiveness. Nowhere does it talk about torture... which is basically what imprisoning someone is and basically what it is about.

People who feel a need to punish/hurt other people are the people with the problem. But then when you live in a world where babies are abused [generally ill-treated, generally by not caring to their needs as is appropriate, allowing them to cry repeatedly and daily], there are all kinds of folk out there with psychological problems. And such folk do things like lie and steal and cheat and beat up on other people. So then other traumatized folk look at that and say: "C'mon, we've got a great excuse to hurt these people" and so a judicial system is set up to legitimize and execute the torture of those who dare defy the system at large.

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Stop torturing babies, or allowing parents to do so to their own, and all of your authoritarian troubles will evaporate over time. The alternative is many more millennia of suffering and subsequent retribution going on forever in an endless cycle of grief.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 10:56:53 PM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30794
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: What NOT to know...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 11:29:11 AM »
Amen, brother...

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
SPECIALISTS: dentists, doctors, farmers, etc.
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 11:57:47 PM »
Most people would never leave the system since they figure they're always gonna need to access services like those of dentists, doctors, farmers, teachers, plumbers, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy to slavery!!!

Dentists
As i've mentioned before, dental health is so ingrained in modern culture as something one leaves to 'dentists' that it defies all reason...
Since animals neither visit dentists nor have the dental health issues people have... this is all rather bewildering. Follow the link; it's all about minerals. You do not need dentists... You think you need them. It's a big difference.

Doctors
Fact is, when talking about doctors i always run into the question: "What do you do if you break a bone?" Ironically, i've actually talked to people who had broken a bone and the doctors had not set it properly... Hey, c'mon; rocket science...?
A century ago all doctors were all about friggin' herbs and such! Then a paradigm shift took place and nowadays all we can talk about is antibiotics and surgery...!!!
In a way the people talking about mending bone are right: health should not be about 'diseases'; if your diet is minerally resplendent, just about the worst thing that could ever happen to you is that you fall off a cliff or something and need help; otherwise you're fine...
Modern culture is hypochondriac; no need to point to people and say they are such; it's the whole culture that's obsessed with running to 'medical professionals'. You don't actually need doctors; you just think you do.

Teachers
I wish i could teach my [by now 9-year-old] son about permaculture, animal husbandry, history, politics, etc. etc. etc. ... But instead of having every morning to fill his head with real information, he is sent to 'school' [by governmental decree!!!] and he's being properly conditioned, just like all the other slaves-to-be...
A child [and adults, too, for that matter] can only acquire information until about noon; that's just how the brains work and there are many conventional sources that acknowlege this. And my son used to friggin' drill me with questions when we would go on long walks; he wouldn't shut up! And i loved it; i loved how inquisitive his mind was and how he would soak everything up like a sponge. And then he had to go to school...
I wish i could teach my son about permaculture, animal husbandry and all the other things he would need to be a self-sufficient and (therefore) free person. But instead of all of that, he gets sent to a school where there are these girls[!] who fill his mind with politically correct bs  :o
Now we have internet and the entire concept of the schooling system has in fact become obsolete. That is, unless you as a parent just don't have the time... After TEOTWAWKI [after TSHHTF], you won't be needing 'teachers', just like you already don't need them today. The entire schooling system is a 19th century contrivance that came forth out of the povertous conditions that had to do with the industrial revolution, during which people would be putting their children to work in factories [i.e. they were not only so ignorant that they had nothing to teach their children, but they were so poor that they needed even their own children to work].
The fact that the modern school system hasn't really changed in over a century should tell you enough... Yeah, we all grew up in it, and even our parents grew up in it, but in the bigger picture it's all just a load of crazy sh!t...

Farmers
As my posts under permaculture have tried to explain, not only do you not need farmers, you would do much much better to grow your own food. Modern farmers, applying conventional tactics and ideas, have already utterly desertified 30% of the world's arable land and basically laid waste to the rest [that is 90 to 95% demineralized]. If you want good food, you grow it your (damn) self! In this age in which only about 3% of the population 'farms', that may seems strange to you. However, i learned at school in the '70s that 90% of Chinese folk were farmers; and i think we all have to get back to that. When the stock market crashed in '29, people survived because almost everyone had family with a farm, i.e. direct access to good food. But today, if something like that were to happen, how many people could find food...?
Supermarkets have made us into a kind of parasites, but worse yet, they have made us complacent and unaccountable for the basics of life.
As a matter of principle, you should be farming your own food already; as a matter of necessity, you should be already producing quality food yourself.
Especially in regard to food, TEOTWAWKI has already happened in many regards...
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01