Author Topic: Animal Husbandry  (Read 3368 times)

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Animal Husbandry
« on: May 01, 2017, 09:16:51 AM »
Though there's posts on animals under Divine Feminine... i am hereby 'hijacking' this topic since i feel it definately belongs with 'agriculture', soil management and farming in all it's glorious variations...


A wonderful vid from Joel Salatin's Polyface Farm on chickens with rabbits here, how one can produce at least 8 dozen eggs a day and 3000 pounds of rabbit meat/year in the space of a 3-car garage. The setup also produces compost for the garden [some people even just keep rabbits for their ability to produce copious amounts of manure].

Joel Salatin is a prime example of a successful farmer who uses any and all sustainable means, as well as any and all animals, to produce profit. His cows on pasture produce 4 times [!] what mainstream farmers do, as an example of how his permaculture tactics put conventional farmers to shame [and that's only talking quantity; forget things like quality of produce, soil creation or security through drought-proof tactics...].
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 09:42:33 AM »
In a perfect world... cows produce:
- colostrum
- milk for cheese
- manure for seedlings
- leather
and one might say: etc. etc. etc. ...

However[!], a cow is a relatively huge animal and keeping one alive during and after TEOTWAWKI could prove to be a humungous challenge. It is certainly a challenge one could probably never face alone...

Genetics; it's worth some cooperation, compromise and sacrifice to be able to save cow DNA [i.e. live specimens] for future enjoyment. This would [and must!] be about community.
Having sought after 'like-minded folk' since 2009 without success, i know how difficult achieving community can be. But if one is to enjoy the benefits of having cows after TEOTWAWKI, certainly it should be obvious that this can only be accomplished as a community.
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

ilinda

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1952
  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 02:08:49 PM »
I, too, ponder how livestock, especially the larger ones would survive extended chaotic times.  From the reading I've done in search of the "perfect" milk cow, one contender might be the Scottish Highland, or just the Highland.  I always refer to them as the former, but there may be some cross breeding here and there and perhaps that's why some call their cows "Highland".

The Scottish Highland, from articles I read in ACRES, U.S.A., is more able to survive on browse, and does not need as much steady grass as do most cattle.  Plus the Scottish Highland can tolerate some extremes in weather.  And of course those horns can be intimidating to bobcats, coyotes, and especially mountain lions, making these cows a bit harder to take down, and even causing a predator to think twice before going after a newborn calf.

R.R. Book

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 04:27:26 PM »
This article in Mother Earth says they're now breeding miniature milk cows that are under 36" high.  Am also surprised to learn how much milk a pygmy goat can produce.  http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/raising-cattle/small-breed-milk-cows

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 06:46:02 PM »
This article in Mother Earth says they're now breeding miniature milk cows
NOW! we're talkin'!
"Miniature cattle are classified in three categories as measured by height at the hip. These three categories are (1) midsize miniature, 42 to 48 inches; (2) standard miniature, 36 to 42 inches; and (3) micro-miniature, 36 inches and under. Small-breed cattle range in weight from 500 to 800 pounds. In general, a miniature milk cow is a third to half the size of the standard milk cow. "
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30766
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 11:30:18 PM »
Though there's posts on animals under Divine Feminine... i am hereby 'hijacking' this topic since i feel it definately belongs with 'agriculture', soil management and farming in all it's glorious variations...

Socrates, that's cool. I agree, and will take it a couple steps farther...
Many of the Topics in the Protecting Our Animal Board are really about animal husbandry.
(They actually are more about food sources than other animal Topics.
I am able to set up a board - called
"Animal Husbandry."
Your new topics here will go under it.

I am also able to move topics to the new Animal Husbandry board, such as ones already existing, rabbits, chickens, etc. and you can add to them.

I will go ahead and set up an Animal Husbandry Board tonight and move some existing Topics under it.
That other animal Board - it's OK there are other Topics that can stay there.
Send message any time, but I think this will work just fine...

- Barb townsend

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30766
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 01:32:27 AM »
So it's done, Socrates this Topic, originally posted in your Permaculture
Board is now located here in your new "Animal Husbandry" Board.

 ;D

I also modified the Food for Survival Board to incorporate all SEEDS Topics I could find. This is a work in progress, but most SEED Topics will be here:
All SEED Topics/Food for Survival

- Yowbarb

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
'bug out animal husbandry'
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 09:02:23 AM »
Something one doesn't commonly consider as part of a bug-out-bag is genetic information trapped in creatures... You can't put a goat or dog into your bug-out-bag but maybe they should be right next to it. However, what is possible to carry along is bugs; you might carry a queen and a few bees with you or some silk worms; one supplies carbs in the form of honey, the other proteins/fats as well as silk. Dog and goat don't need to be carried. I'm just sorry carrying around a rabbit or Scobie isn't feasible, but perhaps one can have a cage ready for the cases in which it's possible to haul extra stuff with you to a safe location.
However you look at it, if you lose this kind of genetic information, you could regret it the rest of your life.

What are we looking at? Only...
- fur / wool / silk
- meat / dairy / survival nutrition [proteins, fats as well as carbs]
- omnivores, herbivores and carnivores
- leather, sweets and resources
- companionship, security and trading
It is complete and you could do much worse. Chickens, pigs, cows or donkeys [let alone horses], now that's what i call luxurious. Though one might fit a rat or guinea pig into a backpack...
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
carrying DNA...
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »
put yer bugs in this...?

Ain't he cute like that?
Yeah, i have one... [bag, that is]
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

Socrates

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • literally, I've seen the end in a vision; DEADLY!
    • TEOMCROTE
miniature Jersey / Hereford
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 09:08:37 AM »


« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 09:22:39 AM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

R.R. Book

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2017, 11:10:53 AM »
Quote
you might carry a queen and a few bees with you

Maybe for a very limited period of time without losing them.  A caged inseminated queen with a few nurse bees can be carried away from a colony for a couple of days only if she is en route to an adoptive functioning hive, and the risk of loss of livestock is high.  When package bees are transported to a new home, they might include a mated queen with a few thousand bees (a pound), which constitutes a very weak colony and places them in danger of dying until they have been hived and babied between a few weeks and a year to build up the colony's strength. 

Better to transport a nuc of between 2 and 5 frames with a laying queen, larvae, eggs, and honey all together as a miniature hive.  It would be a compact box and have a far greater chance of survival.  If carrying a caged queen or a small package of un-hived bees not in a nuc, some 1:1 sugar water in a spray bottle would help them through the trip.

Another option might be to pack an empty hive in the back of a car and bring along some Melissa / Lemon Balm extract as bait, and see if you can attract a swarm.  I reckon bees will know to move into caves and that ferral colonies will come out in the aftertime if they had enough honey and pollen stores in the cave to get them through. 

Am attaching a photo of a lightweight transportation nuc box:

« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:34:29 AM by R.R. Book »

Yowbarb

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30766
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Reaching For Survival
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2017, 02:51:36 PM »
R.R. Book,
We appreciate your expertise on bees, here in the new animal husbandry board.
 :)
Barb T.

ilinda

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1952
  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2017, 05:47:20 PM »
Quote
you might carry a queen and a few bees with you

Maybe for a very limited period of time without losing them.  A caged inseminated queen with a few nurse bees can be carried away from a colony for a couple of days only if she is en route to an adoptive functioning hive, and the risk of loss of livestock is high.  When package bees are transported to a new home, they might include a mated queen with a few thousand bees (a pound), which constitutes a very weak colony and places them in danger of dying until they have been hived and babied between a few weeks and a year to build up the colony's strength. 

Better to transport a nuc of between 2 and 5 frames with a laying queen, larvae, eggs, and honey all together as a miniature hive.  It would be a compact box and have a far greater chance of survival.  If carrying a caged queen or a small package of un-hived bees not in a nuc, some 1:1 sugar water in a spray bottle would help them through the trip.

Another option might be to pack an empty hive in the back of a car and bring along some Melissa / Lemon Balm extract as bait, and see if you can attract a swarm.  I reckon bees will know to move into caves and that ferral colonies will come out in the aftertime if they had enough honey and pollen stores in the cave to get them through. 

Am attaching a photo of a lightweight transportation nuc box:
Thanks for that photo, which tells a thousand words.

ilinda

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1952
  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2017, 05:52:21 PM »
This article in Mother Earth says they're now breeding miniature milk cows that are under 36" high.  Am also surprised to learn how much milk a pygmy goat can produce.  http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/raising-cattle/small-breed-milk-cows.
Another thing to ponder is what to feed herbivores in tight times.  Some goats give huge quantities of milk, but only if grain-fed.  When eating browse and whatever they can find that is green, or hay, milk production will not match that of grained animals.  But that's OK. 

In my view, whatever they give, they give, and grain isn't what they eat in the wild anyway.  People might need to become accustomed to goat milk or cow milk in smaller quantities in hard times, as few owners will have enough stored grain to feed every morning on the milk stand.  But it's not the end of the world.

R.R. Book

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Animal Husbandry
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 06:44:50 AM »
Am including protein analysis and cultivar disambiguation links for comfrey, which is easy to grow and meets or exceeds protein content of alfalfa and other legumes.  My Amish neighbor, who grows both common and Russian comfrey, says that common comfrey drops seed and is smaller.  Russian comfrey does not produce viable seed, but expands at the base producing larger stands of plants with more biomass for feed.  Both kinds can be used for fodder though.

http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/ilri/x5519b/x5519b12.htm (Amino acid breakdown table)

http://www.coescomfrey.com/use.html (This site says comfrey increases milk production)

http://www.nantahala-farm.com/comfrey-fodder-livestock-dairy-animals-s.shtml

http://www.5acresandadream.com/2012/01/more-thoughts-on-growing-animal-feeds.html

https://permies.com/t/15975/Comfrey-Bocking-Clarification