Author Topic: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?  (Read 2378 times)

GenericUser

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Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« on: May 15, 2016, 11:36:11 AM »
     I CAN NOT DO IT ALONE

GenericUser was just watching "WSO Hangs Out ... Marshall Masters" at
 http://yowusa.com/2016/05/wso-13may2016/
and understood I belong in 'Reason #1' and 'Reason #2' regarding preparation.

So what about Succeeding after Inheriting? Looking at the history of humans, while they always strove for peace, equality and the like, it was hardly ever realized and when it was, it never lasted. Why?

For societies, as well as individuals like myself and yourself, something always got in the way, always brought us down. What we had that helped us to achieve our peace, we lost. That was HELP. Yup, whenever humans were successful, they had help; they asked for it; they recognized their Creator, gave praise and thanksgiving, and asked for help. But after they had it, they soon forgot it, forgot the Divine Majesty, took it for granted, figured they could do it themselves, all alone ... and then their HUMILITY turned to pride and arrogance. More land, more power, more control of people, more, more, more, because they 'deserved' it. From individual ambition to social communistic philosophy, the god became the human, the society, the collective.

So to Succeed in the next Era, the Backside, after the tribulation and transition, after you actually claim your Inheritance, if you are not Humble and walk with your God and daily give thanks and daily say "I can not do it alone" and ask for help just as you daily help and love others, humanity's experience of the era will be short-lived indeed and will come the end of all ends. Personally, I believe that among the Inheritors will be the Successful ones who will last after all others pass away and they will, in fact, experience all the peace and joys and benefits of that era as they repopulate the earth, the extremely long life, free from all illnesses and diseases, filled with love and Grace, filled with the purest waters and fertile land, and more as promised over the past millennium. There will be a one world order, but it will be under God, for God will be with humans in a new and extraordinary way, God With Us in spirit. When this era ends will come the one, eternal era without end.

GenericUser

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2017, 02:32:34 PM »
A Reminder From George Washington:

Even though it does not seem to be politically correct in 2017 to speak of life, religion, morality and virtue, President George Washington, in his farewell address in 1796, felt quite differently as he looked forward to the road this nation would need to follow to be faithful to the ideals of its founders:

First Inaugural Address - George Washington - April 30, 1789
“…No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency…”

Farewell Address - George Washington - September, 1796
“…Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths which are the instruments of investigations in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be concealed to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience, both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric"
"It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes….”

And in his Prayer for Government, Archbishop John Carroll of Baltimore Maryland, just 5 years earlier in 1791, prayed:
"We pray Thee O God of might, wisdom and justice! Through whom authority is rightly administered, laws are enacted, and judgment decreed, assist with Thy Holy Spirit of counsel and fortitude the President of these United States, that his administration may be conducted in righteousness, and be eminently useful to Thy people over whom he presides; by encouraging due respect for virtue and religion; by a faithful execution of the laws in justice and mercy; and by restraining vice and immorality….”

Socrates

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 01:05:30 AM »
I would agree that mankind needs a religion in order to succeed. That's because we're challenged by the fact we have big brains that take a long time to develop, which condition also means there's a lot that can go wrong in the meantime...

I look at it like this: there's not much that could've gone wrong with a model T Ford, but 1000 [/million] things can go wrong with a Ferrari; one is simple, one is high-tech, but also: one doesn't offer much whereas the Ferrari will allow you to race at high speeds in comfort and style. It all comes at a price, though... just as our cerebral superiority does, i mean.

Alice Miller's research explains how we can lose our humanity during infancy if we are poorly cared for. Then we grow into fear-driven, stupid and (basically clinically) insane adults that fail the Milgram Experiment [65 to 85% of the modern population, depending on where the experiment is carried out].

Our problem/challenge as humanity is that such traumatized infants (who grow up to become traumatized adults) are actually sheltered and excused by untraumatized people who [according to Kropotkin's research] are empathetic to others, especially to others in distress. So in the end, the healthy wind up actually aiding the (psychologically) sick out of an evolutionary empathetic response...


Those who are traumatized as infants [n.b.: 'fans' of Miller's work often speak of "children" while she is talking about "infants"; a big difference] need to be cared for properly, but more importantly, they must not be allowed to hijack human nature to contaminate mankind with their affiliction, be they a minority or a majority... [today it's about 75% that are so afflicted].
Only axioms may suffice; first of all, the problem must be prevented in the first place [an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure]; this is achieved by the following:
- treat newborns [the first 6 months of life] as if they are 'God'
- treat toddlers [the first 2 years of life] as if they are 'royalty'
- offer pregnant women security [past, present and future], for their stress will work it's way into their fetus.

These are rules; they are not instinctual or natural per se; it's about using modern research and millennia of experience to set up protocols that need to be followed to prevent disaster from happening.
I know of no better definition of "religion"...


This is what (relatively) modern (psychological and social) research has shown us. Having said that, it should be understood that said research has some very damning things to say about people invoking authority to supposedly supply sollutions, especially ultimate authority [i.e. 'God'...]
The psychological trauma Alice Miller describes is an authoritarian trauma, just as Stanley Milgram's experiment was about exposing how people react to authority. And what greater authority can one imagine than 'God'? And so, the psychologically traumatized masses look to some 'god' or other to ease their trauma and the daily stress they experience. Hence the existence of (most) religion vs spirituality [that does not demand one look to some omnipotent authority figure but that says that the power [/authority] is within yourself...].

Research into communes has shown that those communes not based on some kind of authoritarian teaching are doomed to self-destruct sooner or later. However, this is not an argument for authoritarianism, for the communal societies that stood the test of time turn out to be quite inhuman in practice and principle. Indeed, it is a fact that there was one society in ancient Peru that survived 1000 years without war; however, that doesn't mean that said society was a nice place for a (psychologically healthy) person to live...

Ignorance of what it actually means to be a human being makes one vulnerable to subhuman developments that are to be expected from a species that takes 20 years to mature. Historically and traditionally the knowledge of what it means to be human has been lacking/absent/void. We know better today, i.e. if you bother to read the research (psychologically traumatized) authorities ignore...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:38:49 AM by Socrates »
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GenericUser

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 05:34:54 AM »
Socrates, I gather you didn't read any of my prior posts or suggested video, such as

http://planetxtownhall.com/index.php?topic=5881.msg84658#msg84658

Which raises the level of view from microscopic to macroscopic. It was the same with a prior post suggesting a video by Dr. Scott Hahn under a different topic. You wrote but did not listen. That's ok because I'm not debating or trying to convince, only presenting facts for people to consider, but do want to point this out.

No so Generic a User   ;)

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 06:50:19 AM »
Socrates, You brought up some interesting points for discussion though, especially regarding what actually constitutes religion as Creator intended it, and as a sustainable practice. 

Regarding treatment of infants and others so as to avoid contributing to the pervasive trauma (which dark forces then probably feed upon), if we simply followed the Golden Rule consistently, and applied it in all directions (toward both Creator and creation), perhaps we would not really need a religion more complex than that?  The creeds that many of us memorized as children could exist as spiritual truths without becoming idols limiting our growing understanding of the Divine.

Regarding human tendency to fail this simple religion, this is where the cults begin springing up.  There are more cults in modern life than have been so named.  Perhaps our greatest challenge as moderns is to live the simplest life that we can without being sucked into these institutions, which often begins with well-meaning idealism. 

The very beginning of the Bible seems to suggest a path toward raising healthy families and avoiding sociopathic cults: The Creator taught early humans to live so closely to the earth that they would be able to name all the animals (Genesis 2:20), eat from their own gardens (Genesis 1:29, Psalm 128:2), not depend upon city institutions and amenities (Cain's unsustainable legacy because he was prevented by curse from practicing agriculture), be stewards of their family farmland (big or small) and never be tempted to sell it (Leviticus 25).  The earliest religious observation simply involved taking a day off from work and enjoying the family (Adam + Eve + God), while reflecting with gratitude on what had been accomplished the past week (Genesis 2 etc.).  Later when the one family grew to several, each tribe had its own farmland, and would gather once a week plus holidays with tribes from the surrounding farms for essentially a grange hall prayer meeting that was simultaneously an extended family reunion.  The seeds for a cult were potentially sown at this level of social complexity, however, as a hierarchy had formed (the priesthood, to whom all tribal members were still distant kin), and a well-intentioned labyrinthine jurisprudence began accreting, with a few odious laws and practices that began creeping in, such as children being put to death by stoning for simply sassing Mom (Deut. 21), and in the case of some who had drunk the Koolaid, sacrificing their children by fire to Molech. 

So, I feel that indigenous tribal systems perhaps exemplify what was originally intended, when practiced at the simplest level that conserves family and farm, and excludes hierarchies.  I would not consider a Council of Elders, for example, necessarily to be a hierarchy, but rather an egalitarian body practicing its own part in an inclusive division of labor in which the elderly are cherished and needed in spite of potential frailty.

G.U., Thank you for reminding us of George Washington's words, especially as we remembered the story of our Independence last week.  For me, July 4 further called to mind both his warning and Jefferson's against entangling alliances - reinforcing ancient principles of simplicity and isolation.  Your point that there is no security of person or property without a religious sense of right and wrong is well made.
 
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 04:16:11 PM by R.R. Book »

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Re: B-V-G
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 07:44:44 PM »
Socrates, I gather you didn't read any of my prior posts or suggested video, such as
http://planetxtownhall.com/index.php?topic=5881.msg84658#msg84658
Which raises the level of view from microscopic to macroscopic.
I followed the link but it didn't lead to any matter relating to survival or establishing civilization, which is what this forum is about and why i am here.
Frankly, i try my best to keep my own posts from going beyond that scope, for forums do tend to get way out of hand otherwise [too big and therefore good posts become needles in haystacks].
If you believe that belief in a 'Creator' is essential to survival or establishment of a human culture, i have argued above what research into the human psyche shows concerning that. As for convoluted theorems seeking to justify just such beliefs, i would say Occam's Razor applies.
Having said that, i for one, am not looking for any such debate; seen it, been there, done that...
I just feel one should conquer the mundane before getting into all kinds of theories, especially ones that demand respect of persons with supposed authority just to get through them.
I am reminded of a little poem from Frank Herbert's Dune:
Here lies a toppled god
His fall was not a small one
We did but build his pedestal
A narrow and a tall one
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Socrates

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Re: Practical religion
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 07:55:16 PM »
Regarding treatment of infants and others so as to avoid contributing to the pervasive trauma, if we simply followed the Golden Rule consistently, and applied it in all directions (toward both Creator and creation), perhaps we would not really need a religion more complex than that?  The creeds that many of us memorized as children could exist as spiritual truths without becoming idols limiting our growing understanding of the Divine.
First there is this, yes.
Then, what does such a human society do about other societies it comes across? Indeed, first do no harm (and make sure your own community is free of stupid, insane, paranoid individuals), but religion also needs to be about dealing with others, for (research shows that) if you do not, your basic human instincts will simply lead you down a path on which tolerance of failure, abuse and incompetency brings everyone down sooner or later. Laisser faire and tolerance are good when they come from a place of understanding en empathy, but when you just don't get where other people's crazy comes from and you let it be, that's more about apathy than anything else. Like how everyone's always making excuses for politics...
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R.R. Book

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 09:58:30 AM »
Hi Socrates,

If a psychopath were merely making you or the community miserable with his presence, in a depopulated world it would be fairly simple to go your separate ways.  That might be the worst imaginable punishment in a barren world, as well, to deny your social contact to someone who is difficult to tolerate.**

When another is behaving in a way that intentionally endangers life and property, the Golden Rule does not preclude a firm hand; in such a case the other party has already made it clear that he needs assistance beyond the reach of civility - he needs help controlling himself, even if the help proves lethal, as in immediate self-defense or defense of the community.  It would be no less kind than ending the suffering of a rabid animal, and is still practicing the Golden Rule: the perpetrator is asking to receive back the same kind of energy that he is putting out, and leaving you no other choice than to oblige him. :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 **Rabbi to the irate bandit in the movie Frisco Kid:
"This is a very big country. I'll tell you what I think is the best thing. I'll take San Francisco; you take the rest of America. And if you ever come back to this place again, I don't think you're gonna get off so easy."

[He hands back the bandit's gun]

Rabbi: "Now, get the hell out of here. Would somebody please show this poor asshole the way out of town?"

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:44:21 PM by R.R. Book »

Socrates

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Re: bandits
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »
... the other scenario: The Magnificent 7: bandits are given a firm beating and told to beat it. All they have to do is leave that one little village alone... And of course they come back!

One must understand that the research into, and the common sense concerning, those suffering from the authoritarian trauma shows that these people are living out a primal trauma that supersedes both their emotional and rational minds; what is guiding them is their reptilian mind. And though it's quite ironic and counter-intuitive to any rational/sane person, the reptilian mind is both obsessed with immediate survival and blind to lethal threats that are not immediate (but perhaps very logical and likely).

Fact is that 'bad people' [i.e. those suffering from the authoritarian trauma and therefore emotionally/empathetically-challenged] often end up hurting themselves even more than others are hurt, though it would seem their intent is to attack.
You must understand that when i explain about these people and use the words "stupid", "insane" and "paranoid", i mean such words quite literally, i.e.:
- stupid; doing the same things over and over again yet hoping for different results
- insane; psychologically traumatized to a point of dysfunction
- paranoid; fearful beyond all reason or measure
These people often show behavior that is [again, quite literally] suicidal. And not giving a hoot even for their own lives, these people are basically capable of anything (as the Milgram Experiment illustrates so well).
So, what i'm saying is, that if you give such people a fair way out, one that's reasonable or perhaps even profitable for them, that doesn't necessarily mean a thing; as long as their trauma remains to eat at them, they will come back again and again (in many cases) until either you or they are dead. And god knows what kind of damage they could do in the interim...

Underestimating the madness that drives those suffering from the authoritarian trauma is the cause of perhaps most failure, unfairness and suffering in the world today.
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition...

In other words: forget reason, projection or fairness; in dealing with the paranoid/disturbed/foolish, one is best served by protocols that are based on research and experience rather than on assumptions by sane folk who can't imagine what it's like to have to go through life insane...
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R.R. Book

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 02:32:20 PM »
Socrates, if I understand correctly, you're essentially concerned about gang warfare / mob rule, rather than criminally insane individuals acting alone, the latter of which could be dealt with using the lethal force dark side of the Golden Rule.  This is why Marshall and others are advising those in awareness to get away from cities. 

Following Px, I would expect both those in awareness and not in awareness to have potentially experienced injury, bereavement, homelessness, hunger, hypothermia, psychological shock, dehydration, and spatial disorientation due to geological upheavals.  Compare these effects on those of us who have known it was coming with the effects on those who won't have a clue.  Those who didn't know it was coming may be catatonic, suicidal, aimlessly wandering within a small area, and demanding help from the overstretched government, much of which will have caught the last train out of town. 

The compounded and protracted nature of the Flyby means that the minute people think it's over, the next round of assault from Nature may just be getting underway (see Marshall's latest concern on home page).  People in awareness, such as yourself, will be heading up any surviving local communities, because you're the one whose brain holds the volumes of information that you've painstakingly acquired while everyone else was busy playing video games on their Smart Phones.  Think Fahrenheit 451, only you've downloaded the World Wide Web to your memory rather than just the classics.  Instead of hunting you down and attacking you, people will make you their next mayor based upon that alone, IMHO.  :)

« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:22:06 PM by R.R. Book »

Socrates

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Re: "criminally" insane
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 08:00:44 PM »
When the going gets tough, the tough get going, but the saying doesn't mention what the weak get to doing... Well, i'll tell ya: they get even more lethargic, stupid and dysfunctional. People coming together after a disaster? I'm pretty sure that only happens in movies. The weak [the stupid, the ignorant, the insane] will do even more of what they're used to doing which is look to power-based authority. Only then they will even more ruthlessly claim their victim-attitude status and let a lot of 'civilization' go they tolerate today.
I talk sense today but get laughed at. I predict the weak would either try to eat me, keep on ignoring me or force me to offer up assistance. I have no reason to expect a reasonable response from them in the way of appreciation and i will be keeping my distance from them. They've lived by crazy standards all their lives; it's all they know, it's all they know how and i've no reason to expect anything else from them, let alone when the chips are down.

By the way, i'm not talking about the "criminally" insane but of the clinically insane. And since that's already[!] 75% of the population, how ya gonna carry out some tough love model when the weak outnumber you and make up most of your family and acquaintances?
Nah, i've been looking for reasonable folk since 2009 and all i've found are a handful in the whole world[!] at this forum, i.e. people willing to look the future in the eye. I don't expect things to change for the better when things get bad.


Having said all that... there's a group of people i work with that i'm planning to support if possible. They may end up opting for suicidal options, but there might be hope there. I know them fairly well and have experienced some of them in personal settings as well. I know they have their dysfunctions, too, but they are known to me, if you get my drift.
One of these people i consider to be the leader when the time comes. I respect his attitude in life and he's the kinda guy that could make a hard call without hesitation [like, say, cutting someone out of the group]. And isn't this what Marshall's talking about, that we might be consultants to some leader? Well, i just picked my own leader...  ;)  He's the kinda guy that'll tell you to your face: "I don't wanna hear about any of this Anunnaki bs!" or something, but he won't hold your ideas against you all the same. And he can go into a berserker's rage and beat the crap out of someone if need be, something i'm not really all that capable of [psychologically speaking].
So i think there's hope there; no more no less. But i'll be honest: if that doesn't pan out, i'll be heading toward my hidey hole and sitting the bad times out (probably completely) alone.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:29:40 PM by Socrates »
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R.R. Book

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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 06:26:11 AM »
Hi Socrates, I completely respect your position - It sounds as if it comes from some hard experience. 

I hope that you will be provided with others in awareness for companionship in the Aftertime, but your willingness to keep yourself company if necessary is a sign of groundedness. 

In this location among the plain folk, we have a long history of mutual cooperation through Nor'easters and hurricanes, as well as extended power blackouts.  Anything rougher than that in the near future though, would lead me to guess that many non-plain neighbors might permanently vacate the area, as the geological record suggests that our small mountain may again become surrounded by water on all sides.

Re: being completely alone in your hidey hole - you'll still have Dog, right?  :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 06:36:19 AM by R.R. Book »

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Re: doG
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 09:18:01 AM »
Re: being completely alone in your hidey hole - you'll still have Dog, right?  :)
goD willing...  ;)
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Re: Part #2b: Inherit -- but what about SUCCEED?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 12:03:36 PM »
 :)