Author Topic: The soil in the Aftertime  (Read 6627 times)

R.R. Book

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 02:58:35 PM »
Here are a few ideas for purifying soil:

For adsorbing toxins from soil that will be used for alkaline vegetables, which is most of them, soil can be limed with calcium carbonate.  A few fruits need liming as well, such as muscadine grapes.

For adsorbing toxins from acidic soil that will be used for most fruits, either dry pine needles or leaves may be used for their carbon content (these are fine for veggies too). 

Bio-char from a campfire, wood stove or fireplace also contains carbon. 

Excessive rains which are predicted to accompany Px in some areas might flush toxins out of soil, possibly leaching minerals along with it and establishing both good and bad fungi.

Watering with nettle or comfrey compost tea can kill unwanted pathogens (didn't Marshall mention a Px flyover bacteria specifically by name in one of his books?).

As a drastic measure, solarizing soil plots with black plastic can be done, and hopefully beneficial microbes will recolonize the soil on their own afterward.  Feeding leftover milk to soil will expedite the process of probiotic recolonization - we do this with cherry trees which are prone to leaf spot in rainy years.

Covering the soil until the fly-by is complete might be a preventive measure, though if the event is expected to happen during the growing season, might want to use a fine netting so that some light, air and water can get to field crops. 

As an unconventional use of sand, it could be placed ahead of time as a thick top layer above the soil, allowing contaminants to be captured as they percolate down.  This might be heavy and unwieldy to implement though, unless sand is readily available on-site or nearby.

Potting and moving plants indoors temporarily might work, protecting the immediate soil around the roots of plants and allowing nature to take its course with un-potted soil left outdoors.

Trusting the chlorophyll of plants to neutralize toxins naturally might be the simplest method, albeit the lazy way out with fewer guarantees.  This might work best with non-edibles, forests, and grass if any is left.  Sowing a fast-growing cover crop such as nettles around more valuable crops might be an efficient way of purifying soil.  Bottled seltzer water, which itself contains carbon and makes soil nutrients readily available to plants, could be used to draw contaminants into cultivated plant root systems for uptake to leaves and even more expedited chlorophyll detoxification.

Finally, we gardeners might choose to work in tandem with post-Px massive environmental changes, and see what will grow in the new conditions, selecting plant specimen that demonstrate adaptability.




Yowbarb

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017, 05:27:53 PM »
Thanks for posting this data!

Socrates

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2017, 10:04:45 PM »
Here are a few ideas for purifying soil
The assumption there will be any soil to purify must be based on a limited cataclysm approach toward prepping.
We'll just have to agree to disagree there, but even if there is soil, one should realize the only place to get it will be where there are now trees; mainstream farmers have depleted their soil of almost all nutrients and base their operations on additives. (This doesn't work well and the result are mineral deficient crops that taste like cardbord.)

I feel hydroponic ('survival') techniques like hydroponics with seasalt/diluted seawater should at least be considered as a backup. Also, though seasalt/seawater won't restore the biology of good soil, it will at least get a wide range of minerals back into it.
Also see this post-cataclysmic soil post.
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R.R. Book

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 06:49:28 AM »
Hi Socrates,

You're right, the damage could be far worse than I'm allowing for in the above post.  It's difficult to wrap one's mind around that.

If I'm picturing what you're picturing about soil being completely eroded or wind-blown ala Oklahoma Dust Bowl style, then I can see trees and dwelling framework being blown down and rotting where they fall.  Decaying wood perpetually creates loam, which becomes even more loamy when mixed with organic debris from the animals and people who live there.

If on the other hand it is fire that is the greater worry, perhaps it might have a potential renewing effect on the soil as a result (bio-char)?  http://www.naturalnews.com/029429_forest_fires_nitrogen.html

Do you have a thread for more info on hydroponics?

Socrates

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Re: the Aftertime META
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 10:10:59 PM »
the damage could be far worse than I'm allowing for in the above post.  It's difficult to wrap one's mind around that.
It is difficult because our culture does not supply us with the pegs our minds need to give such things a place. Therefore we need to do research, fear no data or logic [let alone common sense] and then still get lucky once in a while to run into certain inspired sources [though diligent longterm research does create it's own luck in this regard].
I have gone into meta arguments concerning such things before; there are things we know and things we have to acknowledge we simply do not know (and therefore should be wary to make assumptions about).

I, for one, doubt there will even be any trees left standing after what is to come... [try wrapping your head around that!] In fact, after megatsunamis and megaquakes have done their worst, i believe the air will likely be the most destructive force of all. As counter-intuitive as that might seem, i.e. air being worse than what earth and water could destroy, the fact is that if our atmosphere no longer flows with the Earth's movement but opposed to it, we're talking megagales that carry within them debris that will scour the Earth like a sand-blaster! Hence the reason why we see next-to-nothing of previous dispensations' dams, roads or other constructs that they must have inevitably built; excepting massive constructs such as the 3300 pyramids and the like [to be found along ley lines all over the Earth], all else was either swept away into the depths of the oceans or turned to dust by 'sandblasting' megagales.
Now how does soil fare in that scenario? i ask. Hell, if there is one generation that should not be taking soil for granted, it is ours!

fire that is the greater worry, perhaps it might have a potential renewing effect on the soil as a result (bio-char)?
Bio-char is a wonderful additive/aspect of soil. However, bio-char is created where there is no O2 to turn it into ash; therefore and in that regard, it's influence is negligible in the scenario you mention. [Terra Preta is like 'upgraded bio-char' and should be of great interest to folks thinking about creating soil.]
Ash, like seasalt/seawater, supplies soil with minerals. However, as long as you have access to seawater, ash is the inferior choice.

Do you have a thread for more info on hydroponics?
All over the internet one will find links to hydroponics; what one will not find everywhere is how seawater/seasalt can be used as substrate. (Indeed, seawater was second only to gypsum in popularity as fertilizer in 19th century agriculture [and that only had to do with massive gypsum dunes found in Texas at the time].)[Carl Hodges' research and experimentation in seawater agriculture is relevant in this regard; i know I have made sure i have salicornia seeds (and am working on getting mangrove seedlings).]
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 11:08:25 PM by Socrates »
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R.R. Book

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2017, 06:53:22 AM »
Hi Socrates,

I'm intrigued about using seawater to restore in-land soil.  You're right that it would be full of minerals.  I'm aware though, that there is a limited class of crops that are "halophytes" or that thrive in salty soil (beach plums are a fine example).  Should more plants be included in that category than currently are?  It seems that if one were to err on the side of overly salinizing soil, the mistake might be irreversible.  I'd also wonder about introducing pollutants from the ocean (Corexit, Fuku...).  Worst case scenario, we're expecting to go from being 100 miles inland to becoming a barrier island off of the East Coast, as we're nearly 1000 feet in elevation in the Appalachian foothills, so sea water might become accessible.  Would love to learn more of your thoughts on this.

Maybe a thread on hydroponics might be too labor-intensive for someone to start on this board, but it sounds as if it might fit in very well with other topics being discussed.  It would be wonderful to be able to actively talk it over with those of you who are knowledgeable on the subject.  Meanwhile, will do some homework as you suggested.

If the earth were to become as damaged as you are describing, then perhaps our attention needs to become more focused upon the spiritual aspect of it, rather than the physical?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 01:11:53 PM by R.R. Book »

Socrates

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Re: Aftertime; how bad?
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 08:58:23 AM »
If the earth were to become as damaged as you are describing, then perhaps our attention needs to become more focused upon the spiritual aspect of it, rather than the physical?
It took me years to wrap my head around the possible/likely severity of it all, but i have ultimately found my peace with it. I remember i headed to La Gomera in 2010 because i reckoned islands are safe from megatsunamis, particularly when they are round, small and situated in deep waters [all of which applies to Gomera]. So i up and leave everything behind to go to this island and do a bunch of effort locating this idyllic valley there at 400 meters altitude, and then i have to accept that megatsunamis will certainly reach that high, even on such a perfect island. Further research into the shape of erosion of ridges on La Gomera [Google Maps (terrain) is your friend!] proved that anything below 1000 meters probably gets regularly inundated. So i gave up on my 'paradise valley' with a heavy heart and focused on much higher altitudes on the island [of which there is not that much to begin with, all of it being part of a National Park...].

I'm just saying, it takes time to gather the necessary pegs, but it's just a process. A process, by the way, better done right now rather than when there is an incoming celestial object looming over the Earth...
It's still all just physical, but you just have to be bloody serious; what wiped our ancestors off the face of the Earth is not going to leave elites in their underground cities alive, just like it only left a few handful of survivors alive last time. [If you've read Brian Sykes' book The 7 Daughters of Eve, you'd know just about everyone on the Earth can be genetically traced back to 33 females... (The title of the book refers to 95% of Europe that can be traced back to 7 female ancestors).]
I've argued for years that anyone can survive what's coming; however, judging by how few people i've been able to reach since 2009 to take things that seriously, it will likely again only be a handful of survivors. Most will make it based on 'luck'; i plan to make it based on common sense and research...
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Socrates

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Re: halophytes
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 09:34:49 AM »
there is a limited class of crops that are "halophytes" or that thrive in salty soil
So, let's get this straight...
I've been talking about 2 distinctly different sets of farming here:
- seawater agriculture, i.e. based on halophytes, and
- regular crops
One can use diluted seawater as a fertilizer on grass at a ratio of 1:5 (i.e. 1 part seawater to 5 parts sweet water). Obviously, this ratio is also subject to the local amount of rainfall as well as TDS values of the sweet water you have; if you have 'normal' rainfall, one might fertilize with a seawater solution once a month.

Each crop has it's own tolerance; tomatoes, for instance, can handle quite a lot of minerals in the soil. Though experimentation may be required for everyone personally, there are lists to be had on how much each vegetable will tolerate, TDS-wise [Total Dissolved Solids]. Get yourself a TDS meter and see when your plants stop getting bigger...
[I tried to find a list i had, but was unable to find it on my computer or online; sorry]
But do view this Natural News Special Report on Ocean Grown.
Also see post growing without soil.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 09:45:20 AM by Socrates »
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R.R. Book

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2017, 01:23:32 PM »
Thank you for the links Socrates.  I'm sorry that the Hydroponics article that you started last fall was "orphaned."  That seems like a topic deserving of much more discussion.  Will study some more, and then join you back over there soon.

ilinda

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Re: The soil in the Aftertime
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 05:15:49 PM »
Hi Socrates,

I'm intrigued about using seawater to restore in-land soil.  You're right that it would be full of minerals.  I'm aware though, that there is a limited class of crops that are "halophytes" or that thrive in salty soil (beach plums are a fine example).  Should more plants be included in that category than currently are?  It seems that if one were to err on the side of overly salinizing soil, the mistake might be irreversible.  I'd also wonder about introducing pollutants from the ocean (Corexit, Fuku...).  Worst case scenario, we're expecting to go from being 100 miles inland to becoming a barrier island off of the East Coast, as we're nearly 1000 feet in elevation in the Appalachian foothills, so sea water might become accessible.  Would love to learn more of your thoughts on this.
I'm no expert on using seawater or sea salt, but after reading Jared Diamond's COLLAPSE... I understood a bit more about this topic of mineralization.  One of the things he said is that in a coastal region, gardens and farms regularly receive enough sea spray that the soils are continuously being enriched little by little, and this sea spray is a beneficial thing, missing in the interior such as the midwestern US.

Also, he said that locales that receive volcanic ash fallout at least every 100,000 years have soils that receive a renewal in the form of minerals from deep in the earth when that ash fallout drifts over, another thing lacking in many areas.

The concern about FUKU, Corexit, and other ocean pollutants is valid.  Years ago I did buy some SEA 90, to amend the garden and farm, plus use as livestock salt, and since it was harvested (Baja) long before Fuku, it's probably safer than it would be now.  There may still be places to find genuine sea salt that does not cost an arm and a leg, and which isn't any more polluted than most things! 

The SEA 90 came with directions on how to use it in row crops, gardens, field spraying, livestock salt, and more.  I applied it to the garden a month or so ago for the first time in several years, and must mention that I've never seen a hint of "salt damage".  It does have sodium and chloride, but it is evaporated sea water, and thus contains 90 trace minerals in varying amounts, i.e., in whatever proportions found in sea water.  I'm sold on using sea salt to help remineralize the soil.  If we had access to volcanic rock pulverized, we'd probably get some of that as well.