Author Topic: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types  (Read 10545 times)

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2017, 01:21:39 PM »
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Why in the world couldn't they do that in So Cal with the big lakes and Pacific Ocean right there?!!

I've wondered the same thing Barb.  I found this recent article which blames a federal agency for prohibiting the planes: specifically the U.S. Forest Service. 

Quote
October 12, 2017 at 8:07 am | UPDATED: October 12, 2017 at 8:22 am

Firefighters battling the deadly wildfires in northern California’s wine country haven’t had much good news, but the arrival this week of the only 747 supertanker in the world falls into that category.

The modified Boeing 747 owned by Colorado-based Global SuperTanker Services, LLC, flew six flights over fires in Napa and Sonoma counties on Monday. The aircraft can fly 600 miles per hour and drop 19,200 gallons of fire retardant over an area more than a mile long and 200 feet wide. It refills in 30 minutes.

As recently as June, it appeared that the plane would not be allowed to fly firefighting missions in the United States. The U.S. Forest Service offered a contract for tanker aircraft that could drop water or fire suppressant over wide areas, but the contract barred planes that could hold more than 5,000 gallons.

That left out the supertanker, despite its recent record of success fighting fires in Chile, Spain and Israel. Without a contract from the U.S. Forest Service, states would not be reimbursed for the cost of using the 747. It costs $50,000 a day to have the plane on stand-by, and $15,000 per flight-hour.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/12/supertanker-finally-helping-fight-california-fires/


R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2017, 01:47:54 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF17yHp-aAA

Tragic film just posted showing the Southern California wildfire, which started earlier in the Ventura area, spreading to San Paulo (same as San Pablo?) California, creeping up on a neighborhood, and finally overtaking the homes.  Many prayers go out for them.

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2017, 05:06:32 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhMr9muxbm8

Dutchsinse spent quite a bit of yesterday's video update discussing evidence that the wildfires around Ventura might have dual causes working in tandem: first, the pressure on tectonic plates forcing methane to the surface; secondly, all the mountains surrounding Ventura are actively being drilled and pumped for oil, possibly allowing methane under pressure to escape.  He zoomed in on the drilling operations, revealing the appearance of heavy strip-mining throughout the terrain, to the extent that scarcely any of the mountains looked to be untouched by the operations. 

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2017, 12:30:19 PM »
Update: The fires have spread into Los Angeles and burned some high-end Bel Air homes there.  I-405 has been shut down, and UCLA has cancelled classes. 

These news articles were just posted a few minutes ago:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/us/california-fires.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/us/ventura-fire-southern-california/index.html


Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2017, 12:59:46 PM »
Quote
Why in the world couldn't they do that in So Cal with the big lakes and Pacific Ocean right there?!!

I've wondered the same thing Barb.  I found this recent article which blames a federal agency for prohibiting the planes: specifically the U.S. Forest Service. 

Quote
October 12, 2017 at 8:07 am | UPDATED: October 12, 2017 at 8:22 am

Firefighters battling the deadly wildfires in northern California’s wine country haven’t had much good news, but the arrival this week of the only 747 supertanker in the world falls into that category.

The modified Boeing 747 owned by Colorado-based Global SuperTanker Services, LLC, flew six flights over fires in Napa and Sonoma counties on Monday. The aircraft can fly 600 miles per hour and drop 19,200 gallons of fire retardant over an area more than a mile long and 200 feet wide. It refills in 30 minutes.

As recently as June, it appeared that the plane would not be allowed to fly firefighting missions in the United States. The U.S. Forest Service offered a contract for tanker aircraft that could drop water or fire suppressant over wide areas, but the contract barred planes that could hold more than 5,000 gallons.

That left out the supertanker, despite its recent record of success fighting fires in Chile, Spain and Israel. Without a contract from the U.S. Forest Service, states would not be reimbursed for the cost of using the 747. It costs $50,000 a day to have the plane on stand-by, and $15,000 per flight-hour.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/12/supertanker-finally-helping-fight-california-fires/

Thanks for the info, RR.
I think that old prohibition or wrong-headed barrier goes back many many years. Why that would ever happen, who knows.
I just found out they DID bring in that supertanker during those northern CA fires...such devastation to that lovely area... maybe did not bring in soon enough or enough of them? One commentator on the video below said the huge plane cannot get into some of the canyons, etc. or other logistical problems.
I say - as soon as a fire starts dump ocean water on it and be done with it. Less toxic than the fire retardant anyway and less safety concerns...
I know right now several So Cal contacts and friends of friends on Facebook are evacuated...fires out of control in so Cal. Video link and screen shot below, about supertanker in CA.

...
Converted 747 'Global Supertanker' Laying The Smackdown On California Fires  3:06  20,544 views

video link: https://youtu.be/KxOvBbl_CZY

Published on Sep 5, 2017
CBS Sacramento
Wildfires are raging across the west. And now a major tool to help contain the flames is here in Northern California


Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2017, 01:09:14 PM »
Update: The fires have spread into Los Angeles and burned some high-end Bel Air homes there.  I-405 has been shut down, and UCLA has cancelled classes. 

These news articles were just posted a few minutes ago:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/us/california-fires.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/us/ventura-fire-southern-california/index.html

Wow, worse than I thought...

ilinda

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2017, 04:17:29 PM »
And as mentioned in one of the posts, that fire retardant is not all it's cracked up to be.  I've read on one of the health/med sites about how studies have shown that its effectiveness is debatable, whereas water on a forest fire does work, is not toxic, but is needed is such huge quantities.

They sprayed fire retardant in our area a year or two ago when forest fires had started, and the stench could be smelled, plus remnants of stuff that was affected by it kept wafting down on everyone's property.  That stuff was more toxic than the smoke itself.  That stuff is so toxic, I wonder if it is just some hazardous waste that some company has now discovered can be sold as "fire retardant", rather than paying to dispose of it properly.

Seems like using toxic, expensive,  so-called fire retardant is just another form of corporate welfare, because water, in the right quantities, will do more than retard a fire--it will douse it.

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2017, 11:29:07 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEdklsT2dHE

Video posted a few minutes ago now says that the Southern California wildfires have spread from the edge of L.A. into the heart of the city, due in part to 80 mph winds.  Around 7:15 is a panoramic view of entire swaths of city blocks burned to the ground.  Back at the edge of the city, horses are left pent in their corral in the blinding smoke, waiting to be bridled and led to safety.  Kudos to a team of volunteers from a local news station who bravely entered into heavy smoke in an approaching fire to do just that.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:42:26 AM by R.R. Book »

ilinda

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2017, 01:30:29 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEdklsT2dHE

Video posted a few minutes ago now says that the Southern California wildfires have spread from the edge of L.A. into the heart of the city, due in part to 80 mph winds.  Around 7:15 is a panoramic view of entire swaths of city blocks burned to the ground.  Back at the edge of the city, horses are left pent in their corral in the blinding smoke, waiting to be bridled and led to safety.  Kudos to a team of volunteers from a local news station who bravely entered into heavy smoke in an approaching fire to do just that.
Glad to hear about the livestock rescue, so thanks for posting.

On a different site and also possibly here on PXTH, someone mentioned the possibility of the CA wildfires being related to methane release.  In one recent audio, I heard mention of underground storage tanks of methane and how their leaking could certainly exacerbate, if not trigger, some of the wildfires.

Then there's also the fracking which could easily release methane.

At any rate, 80 mph winds and a city the size of LA is more than scary!

Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
Not into the heart of the city yet...not per what I am looking at but it is close to edges of city...

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2017, 03:02:09 PM »
Perhaps the videographer meant Los Angeles County, rather than city?  It's helpful to hear from those of you who have lived there, or nearby, and understand the geography of the area.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:25:22 PM by R.R. Book »

Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2017, 05:26:44 PM »
Traveling kids:
One of my daughters is at SM Pier, air quality good.
Only son in noho North Hollywood so far no problems...

Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2017, 05:29:40 PM »
Perhaps the videographer meant Los Angeles County, rather than city?  It's helpful to hear from those of you who have lived there, or nearby, and understand the geography of the area.

Well the blaze got near the city, as the crow flies. Google mapped it, the Skirball fire was only 20% contained a few hrs ago, almost 50,000 people evacuated from Bel Air, CA.
Only 15+ miles from where one daughter staying, Hollywood area... so really close but firefighters keeping it at bay...
That freaky video only a few miles from the turnoff to Wilshire Blvd. Those cars definitely were endangered driving through Carpinteria...wow!

R.R. Book

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2017, 05:39:25 PM »
Barb, am keeping your daughter and family in prayers - 15 miles seems so close given the wind and so forth.  Do they have an evacuation plan?

Yowbarb

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Re: FOREST FIRES and fires of all types
« Reply #104 on: December 07, 2017, 11:58:02 PM »
Yowbarb Note: The Santa Ana winds are expected to pick up again Saturday with gusts up to 60 mph.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/southern-california-wildfires-burn-containment-conditions-worsen/story?id=51638141

Southern California wildfires burn with little containment as conditions worsen

By MARK OSBORNEMORGAN WINSOR
Dec 8, 2017, 2:31 AM ET

Firefighters across Southern California are battling six major wildfires, and brutal Santa Ana winds are expected to continue fanning the flames through Saturday.

California's Department of Forest and Fire Protection tweeted Thursday afternoon that the new fires, the Lilac fire in San Diego County and the Liberty fire in Riverside County, are now being fueled by continued Santa Ana winds and low humidity.

Winds are expected to die down some on Friday, before picking up again in intensity on Saturday.
CAL FIRE PIO

@CALFIRE_PIO
There are now 6 major wildfires burning in Southern California. #RyeFire #SkirballFire #CreekFire #ThomasFire #LilacFire and #LibertyFire all being fanned by continued #SantaAnaWinds and low humidity. Get information at: http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents
5:58 PM - Dec 7, 2017
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 12:15:04 AM by Yowbarb »