Author Topic: Helping women to give birth and breastfeed their newborn little ones  (Read 11982 times)

Yowbarb

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Re: childbirth
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2016, 02:19:52 PM »
Hell, just about the only thing that can generally go wrong is that you start tugging on the afterbirth from some misguided notion that you should help nature along or something; this is the main cause for women dying in childbirth, i.e. bleeding to death. Now realize this: generally, people don't wanna put the blame on doctors and whoever got the not-so-bright idea of 'helping things along' and thereby killing the mother is not mentioned... Just remember this; if you are ever in a situation outside of a hospital or without (so-called) professionals and have to deal with childbirth...
DON'T TUG ON THE AFTERBIRTH!!!
I'd like to add: you also don't have to cut the umbilical cord; you should know that the blood still running through the umbilical cord after birth may supply the newborn with things like iron that put it 6 months ahead (in that regard) of babies whose umbilical cords were severed soon after birth.

Socrates, interesting data... The action of "tugging on the afterbirth" is not one I have experienced, to my knowledge. I do remember the nurses saying a few more natural contractions would push out the afterbirth, in my own case it came out easily. Perhaps not everyone is the same...That is a good point for a survival group birth, for people to be trained enough to know how to get the afterbirth out (without) tugging.
Interesting concept about not severing the umbilical right away...Give us more data, films pdfs, if you have them.
I do know for a fact even young women do stroke out during labor and some hemorrhage before the birth is even done, so pulling on the afterbirth is not the only reason for the mother's death. I will have to admit, even though I had five babies, I am not an expert on birthing and will have to read up more on this...
Personally, finances permitting, I would have a complete little med center available including a crash kit, paddles etc. Also a way to give intravenous hydration... things can go wrong, not to be negative that is just a fact.
Thank you for your imput,
Yowbarb

ilinda

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Re: childbirth
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2016, 04:05:55 PM »
Hell, just about the only thing that can generally go wrong is that you start tugging on the afterbirth from some misguided notion that you should help nature along or something; this is the main cause for women dying in childbirth, i.e. bleeding to death. Now realize this: generally, people don't wanna put the blame on doctors and whoever got the not-so-bright idea of 'helping things along' and thereby killing the mother is not mentioned... Just remember this; if you are ever in a situation outside of a hospital or without (so-called) professionals and have to deal with childbirth...
DON'T TUG ON THE AFTERBIRTH!!!
I'd like to add: you also don't have to cut the umbilical cord; you should know that the blood still running through the umbilical cord after birth may supply the newborn with things like iron that put it 6 months ahead (in that regard) of babies whose umbilical cords were severed soon after birth.

Socrates, interesting data... The action of "tugging on the afterbirth" is not one I have experienced, to my knowledge. I do remember the nurses saying a few more natural contractions would push out the afterbirth, in my own case it came out easily. Perhaps not everyone is the same...That is a good point for a survival group birth, for people to be trained enough to know how to get the afterbirth out (without) tugging.
Interesting concept about not severing the umbilical right away...Give us more data, films pdfs, if you have them.
I do know for a fact even young women do stroke out during labor and some hemorrhage before the birth is even done, so pulling on the afterbirth is not the only reason for the mother's death. I will have to admit, even though I had five babies, I am not an expert on birthing and will have to read up more on this...
Personally, finances permitting, I would have a complete little med center available including a crash kit, paddles etc. Also a way to give intravenous hydration... things can go wrong, not to be negative that is just a fact.
Thank you for your imput,
Yowbarb
Good points from both Socrates and Yowbarb.

I'll add a 2 cents here, even though I'm not a mother.

The first thing to avoid is panic, when encountering an unexpected delivery, or a delivery when the observer/helper is unprepared.  And yes, one should never "tug" on the afterbirth.  In fact, in observing our doe goats during birthing and days and weeks afterwards, I always notice afterbirth here and there that is protruding/extending out of the birth canal (while the doe is out browsing) and I cringe to see it, knowing it COULD be a source of infection, but I have never, ever even touched any part of it for fear of introducing yet another set of microorganisms.

And yes it's true that there is no need to immediately cut the placenta.  Not sure how many hours can elapse, but there is no need to panic, but when one does decide to cut the cord, use sterile lancet, scissors, or other implement.  There is more to do, but sterility or as close to it is a good idea.  One way to "help" the afterbirth emerge on its own is to carefully massage the abdomen--not immediately, but after the normal time span for expulsion of afterbirth has passed.  By massaging the abdomen, you would be trying to do from the external world what the uterine muscles are supposed to be doing from the inside world.  I'm sure there's a lot written about it, so now I'll need to put that bit of research on my "to to" list.  Be prepared.

Remember that major earthquake in Mexico City (? 1980 ?) in which many were killed?   There was a newborn infant in some hospital nursery, having been delivered moments before the quake, and several days later that infant was found and rescued alive!  I'm sure there's mention of it in news archives, but I recall being so amazed that the infant was the only one, IIRC,  who survived in that maternity ward. 

I cannot recall reading anything about its umbilical cord, but it shows the incredible resiliance of a newborn--it reminds me of what happens when ordering baby chicks.   The newly hatched chicks are shipped as soon as possible after hatching and the customer is usually told that the baby chicks have enough nutrients in their yolk sac to last them 72 hours without food or water.

Yowbarb

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Re: Helping women to give birth and breastfeed their newborn little ones
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2016, 06:03:03 PM »
ilinda, now that you mention it, I have heard of massaging the uterus after the birth...
Wouldn't it be good to find out if that infant who survived had his umbilical cord still attached?
Probably never find out.
I'm going to do some reading and post up some free pdfs for people.
I think I might have posted a child delivery pdf in some medical Topic somewhere (I never delete those.)
I agree, anything touching mother or child needs to be clean...as sterile and clean as possible. Any makeshift medical area needs to have a pot to boil water and freshly boiled, dried cloths bagged up in plastic, clean blankets.
One thing Mother taught me when she came to stay with me as I was bringing home my first baby. Mother boiled water and put it in a clean boiled dry jar. Next to that, on the bedstand, she put clean cotton balls in a plastic container. Every time I nursed my baby I cleaned off with the boiled water.
Thanks, lots to think about.

Socrates

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Re: pushing
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2016, 07:00:24 PM »
Incompetence, protocols and professional considerations cause a great amount of unnecessary grief thoughout 'medicine'/'healthcare', also during childbirth.
I have myself personally seen how doctors told my wife to "Push, push now" because they were interested in getting the job finished. This was their incentive; they didn't feel they had the time to deal with the birth so they rushed it to suit their own agenda and schedule. Then the vagina rips... Completely unnecessary!

So if anyone says "things do go wrong", i wonder how much of that is actually caused by the very people busy dealing with childbirth in case things go wrong.
Me, i feel pregnant parents should get a course on how to deal with 'medical professionals' during childbirth. Quite frankly, they put a whole lot of stress on parents during childbirth that the parents are poorly able to deal with at that moment because the moment is stressful enough in and of itself. In the end i believe it is misguided to put faith in these people. Much better to do your own research and follow what nature is telling you to do. If you push when nature is making it impossible for you not to push, you're probably safe; but i've heard of and personally seen how people (as opposed to nature) telling you to push have caused great harm. My wife suffered the pain of her torn vagina for 3 months post birth and this effected her in her ability to care for our newborn. Hell, my sister actually broke her son's collar bone in the womb because she was pushing when she shouldn't have. And the stories go on and on...


On another note, people nowadays generally also don't take responsibility for their health and their bodies are in a worse state than nature intended. Then childbirth, too, may go differently than it should.
Instead of doctors and hospitals, people should be looking to things they can and should do rather than focusing on things that other people are saying could go wrong, especially since a lot of such concerns and predictions have to do with society's ill-conceived take on the matter and have no real bearing on a natural, sane, competent take on things.
Much of life today is about individuals dealing with society and it's demands, expectations and limitations as opposed to people dealing with natural things like childbirth. At least TEOTWAWKI will mean an end to the former. That is, if you don't yourself make the grave mistake of bringing societal values and misconceptions along with you to the backside...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 07:12:12 PM by Socrates »
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Yowbarb

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Re: Helping women to give birth and breastfeed their newborn little ones
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2016, 11:57:43 AM »
Socrates, normally in a hospital birth they do a episiotomy it is virtually painless, easy to stitch up and with easy proper care no problems. I had one four times.
It also is done in some home births. That prevents tearing. There is no reason for a woman to tear and not get medical care for it, it's easily repaired...
Now if there are natural methods to avoid tearing (since episiotomies will not usually be available in a home birth in a survival setting) I would like to hear more.
You mentioned pushing at certain times...
There is probably a lot we cuold all learn about more natural methods so post whatever you know here, and thanks!
Yowbarb

Socrates

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Re: tearing/cutting of the vagina
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2016, 01:35:19 PM »
Actually, they cut her. All the same she suffered greatly for a long time (in the already stressful post-birth months during which one suffers from lack of sleep etc.).
I guess i am arguing here against such practices, suggesting they are self-fulfilling prophecies.

We live in cultures that worship the medical profession and their voodoo bag of tricks. Unfortunately [or fortunately..], the medical madness prevalent in society today cannot be carried over into survival situations, certainly not long-term, and preppers will need to look to other options.
I have read about competent midwives who've basically almost never had a still born occur after decades of service, whereas mainstream doctors reckon with a certain percentage of their births ending in death as a matter of course.

There are books to read and their content cannot be boiled down into forum posts [i did not put together a hardcopy library of literature for nothing; in the end a book is a book and they need to be read/you need to educate yourself or you will be forced to a life of ignorance and needless suffering]. Suffice to say that popular/mainstream/modern views on childbirth, childcare and healthcare in general often bear reconsidering, research, if not outright dismissal.
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ilinda

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Re: pushing
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2016, 04:08:11 PM »
Incompetence, protocols and professional considerations cause a great amount of unnecessary grief thoughout 'medicine'/'healthcare', also during childbirth.
I have myself personally seen how doctors told my wife to "Push, push now" because they were interested in getting the job finished. This was their incentive; they didn't feel they had the time to deal with the birth so they rushed it to suit their own agenda and schedule. Then the vagina rips... Completely unnecessary!

So if anyone says "things do go wrong", i wonder how much of that is actually caused by the very people busy dealing with childbirth in case things go wrong.
Me, i feel pregnant parents should get a course on how to deal with 'medical professionals' during childbirth. Quite frankly, they put a whole lot of stress on parents during childbirth that the parents are poorly able to deal with at that moment because the moment is stressful enough in and of itself. In the end i believe it is misguided to put faith in these people. Much better to do your own research and follow what nature is telling you to do. If you push when nature is making it impossible for you not to push, you're probably safe; but i've heard of and personally seen how people (as opposed to nature) telling you to push have caused great harm. My wife suffered the pain of her torn vagina for 3 months post birth and this effected her in her ability to care for our newborn. Hell, my sister actually broke her son's collar bone in the womb because she was pushing when she shouldn't have. And the stories go on and on...


On another note, people nowadays generally also don't take responsibility for their health and their bodies are in a worse state than nature intended. Then childbirth, too, may go differently than it should.
Instead of doctors and hospitals, people should be looking to things they can and should do rather than focusing on things that other people are saying could go wrong, especially since a lot of such concerns and predictions have to do with society's ill-conceived take on the matter and have no real bearing on a natural, sane, competent take on things.
Much of life today is about individuals dealing with society and it's demands, expectations and limitations as opposed to people dealing with natural things like childbirth. At least TEOTWAWKI will mean an end to the former. That is, if you don't yourself make the grave mistake of bringing societal values and misconceptions along with you to the backside...
Hubby's older brother, his mother's first child, died during delivery because of exactly what you described above.  The doctor was not in the room, and the nurse told hubby's mother to "push, push!" and so she did.  Well, it was the WRONG time to push and the baby's neck was broken and baby died shortly thereafter.  That being the parents' first child, of course they were devastated.  So, even if someone decides to look to conventional medicine, they'd surely be wise to study and know ahead of time what is supposed to occur, so they might see a problem and avoid it due to their foreknowledge of how things should go.

And on another point you made about people not taking responsibility for their health....I know an ob-gyn doctor who only works part time because of the stress on her nowadays.  She said she purposely does not want full time work because she will often go in to work, and know there is a good likelihood that she will have to deliver a baby when the mother weighs 350 pounds and expects things to go smoothly.  My friend said she's a nervous wreck due to so many grossly/morbidly obese pregnant women these days.

Socrates

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Re: Horror stories
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2016, 05:22:21 PM »
I have fathered 3 children and not a single birth went as it should have and in all 3 cases doctors took unnecessary action.

Did you know police don't count the number of people they manslaughter? They can't tell you how many people died by police hands in any region or year. Well, something similar is always going on with medical incompetence and every single person is individually responsible for reading between the lines and not putting faith in people or a system that is beyond incompetent. In 1900 3% of folks died of heart disease or cancer but today it's up to 80%! Atom Bergstrom had to physically go into libraries and read into the medical past for years to dig up that little tidbit; you won't hear about it from them... But it's actually illegal to call yourself a doctor if you're not a credentialed part of the system.

Do your homework. Don't be a fool. Be (self-)educated. Thank God for the internet.
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