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Author Topic: what is 'survival food' / what to think of  (Read 14651 times)

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #150 on: February 09, 2018, 06:58:17 AM »
....However, when you're talking survival IT'S ALL ABOUT CALORIES.

In a survival situation you don't care where you're getting your energy from. All you know is that you need it (to survive). If that energy is environmentally unfriendly or even unhealthy, all of that becomes moot in survival situations.

I have learned that the best diet is one based on carbohydrates. HOWEVER, carbohydrates contain the LEAST amount of calories (i.e. talking about fats and proteins besides). Fats contain the most calories.
....
Now, obviously, 'survival' can be about getting through a tough 72 hours, a tough 72 days or a tough 72 months...
I'm mostly talking about short-term challenges when i say it's really only about calories. One can get on to the myriad of other considerations after food sources and safety have been established and safe-guarded. But I myself have in the past mixed up my priorities and focused on healthy foods mainly. Unfortunately, the healthiest foods generally contain the least amount of calories. It has been a dilemma for me but the important thing is that you don't let it be a dilemma for yourself in a pinch. Then you just go for the fats.
(LOL; i was just watching Discovery Channel and they showed albatrosses feeding their young. Guess what they give them? They reurgitate an oil that has as many calories as diesel oil! That's what these chicks live off of.)

Socrates, I quoted parts of your first post in this Topic.
This is to reiterate, to emphasize how much I agree with you on your ideas about calories.

Here is some food for thought:

If you were in a survival situation and had two choices of seven meals for a week, at one meal per day, and one of these meal choices was 1,000 calories worth of white sugar, while the other was 500 calories worth of mixed pumpkin and sunflower seeds, which would you choose?

:) Just noticed this post.
In this situation I would choose the pumpkin with sunflower seeds...

Socrates

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Re: sugar cubes vs seeds
« Reply #151 on: February 09, 2018, 12:30:19 PM »
If you were in a survival situation and had two choices of seven meals for a week, at one meal per day, and one of these meal choices was 1,000 calories worth of white sugar, while the other was 500 calories worth of mixed pumpkin and sunflower seeds, which would you choose?

:) Just noticed this post.
In this situation I would choose the pumpkin with sunflower seeds...
One might eat all the seeds [ain't much of a meal but better than nothing in a starvation scenario] or one might save the sugar cubes for short periods when activity is needed.
Let's say you run into a hoard of zombies...  ;D You're starving and in no shape to exert yourself and what you need is just enough energy to get away; the seeds would do you no good but just one sugar cube would flush your body with (a short burst of) energy. 1000 calories of sugar cubes could then get you out of any number of 'emergencies', whereas you'd burn through the 500 calories (of seeds) you ate rather quickly and then you'd have nothing left in case of an emergency.

I would cherish the sugar cubes. Actually, this is exactly the kind of logic i started out with: how 'health nuts' tend to stick to their guns even in dire situations, though dire situations actually call for other choices.
I'm reminded of an old gf i had who was a health nut before this was fashionable... I once asked her (since she was vehemenently opposed to junk foods like fries): "Would you eat some fries if you were starving in the desert and there was nothing else to eat?"
She actually said "No"...

Survival demands different things of us than everyday and longterm choices do. And if one doesn't take a long hard look at survival situations before they hit, chances are your general conditioning will lead you to choices that are (far) less than optimal (i.e. in survival situations).
I believe it's a good idea to immerse oneself into survival situations once in a while; it brings the message home on a level that's beyond what's rational or emotional [i.e. that goes into the instinctual]. Comfortable? By no means. Educational? Damn straight...
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Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2018, 02:20:57 PM »
Socrates,again good points, I do agree with you, people should have short-energy-burst-foods on hand and in backpack and in car just in case. Very true the sugar would give a burst of energy ...

Adelle Davis, American nutritionist wrote that for long term survival in arduous conditions two foods stand out: Lobster and liver...
Not sure if these two foods are even available iin long-term storage, worth looking into.
Again I agree the sugar cubes a good idea.
in the early 1970s, my German naturopath told me to keep pure glucose tablets for a needed boost once in awhile. At the time I was below normal weight, not getting enough sleep from new baby and a vegetarian mainly...diet was ample and excellent but nursing my baby too.
He also gave me "Grain Amino" powder. I would make a broth with a couple tablespoonsful in hot water, drink it and lie down and it would bring my energy back...I don't think its on the market anymore. That worked well for me.
In that time period I also found out about chewing chia seeds, and that also gave me endurance.
I posted about them, somewhere in the Boards.

ilinda

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #153 on: February 09, 2018, 07:19:47 PM »
Some of us would still pass on the sugar cubes.  I have had enough bouts with hypoglycemia--brought on by eating sugar!  I remember as a teenager binging on total junk and then feeling really awful, complete with headaches, pimples, and the worst was the low blood sugar, ironically brought on by eating sugar.

Maybe some people would carry sugar cubes or just sugar for an emergency, but not this chick.  And interestingly, in all the sweets-binging I did as a teenager, I never recall having any excess energy afterward.  Quite the contrary.  I felt sluggish, slow and stupid, besides the low blood sugar.

Now I do recall feeling a huge jolt of energy after OD'ing on tea.  LOL

Socrates

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Re: sugar cubes
« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2018, 04:44:03 AM »
Of course the 'starving' body reacts quite differently than anything people are commonly used to. A sugar-laden diet is detrimental and saps one of energy, but if your blood sugar is low and your guts empty, whatever sugar you ingest will go straight to your starving cells. Then you're not talking excess sugar anymore; then you're talking necessity.

In a survival situation 'lunch righteousness' [as Adi Da called it] can get you killed, which is why i mentioned the girlfriend i had long ago who said she'd even refuse to eat fries if she was starving. But then this girl probably had never suffered a day of starvation her entire life [hell, she was only 18 at the time].
I once walked out of a desert [the Negev] after 3 days of fasting and all i could find to eat or drink was a can of Coke from a vending machine... I downed the Coke, no worries. You can bet my body needed that blasted sugar at that point.

Adelle Davis, American nutritionist wrote that for long term survival in arduous conditions two foods stand out: Lobster and liver...
The oldest kind of humans i've ever read about were to be found in modern day Indonesia; i'm guessing people survived there because they have like 13,000 km of coastline which means that even in the worst of times folks could find stuff to eat from the sea. Like lobsters.
Daniel Vitalis, a 'recovering vegan' of 15 years...  ;) now goes out hunting bear, eating bear liver. Before i heard him telling about this, i never would have considered a bear a source of nutrition, but when ya stop to think about it, a bear's just an omnivour and if it's been sh*tting in the woods all it's life, why not eat the bugger?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 04:56:31 AM by Socrates »
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ilinda

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2018, 07:11:40 AM »
Sugar, sugar cubes, etc., are probably fine for some people, but I suspect either genetic or epigenetic factors are at play in some people.  For example the oldest person in our family, Aunt Mary, who lived to be 100 yrs. plus a couple of months, had hypoglycemia, the condition that was more than the "blip" I would experience as an overdosing-on-sugar teen.

Aunt Mary learned from her doctor she should never eat white sugar because of her condition.  She ate ham, eggs, bacon, etc., but never overate.  She learned to keep her blood sugar stable.  If she hadn't she probably would have developed diabetes.

I can think of a number of foods I could easily carry besides sugar, which would provide plenty of energy.  So, I say let the sugar cube crowd carry their sugar, while I carry something else.  We'll all be happy and get the calories we need.

Hubby carries a small ziplok bag of raisins when he jogs--for the very reason of episodes of low blood sugar.  It doesn't take more than a few raisins to nip it in the bud.

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #156 on: February 10, 2018, 08:09:12 AM »
Sugar, sugar cubes, etc., are probably fine for some people, but I suspect either genetic or epigenetic factors are at play in some people.  For example the oldest person in our family, Aunt Mary, who lived to be 100 yrs. plus a couple of months, had hypoglycemia, the condition that was more than the "blip" I would experience as an overdosing-on-sugar teen.

Aunt Mary learned from her doctor she should never eat white sugar because of her condition.  She ate ham, eggs, bacon, etc., but never overate.  She learned to keep her blood sugar stable.  If she hadn't she probably would have developed diabetes.

I can think of a number of foods I could easily carry besides sugar, which would provide plenty of energy.  So, I say let the sugar cube crowd carry their sugar, while I carry something else.  We'll all be happy and get the calories we need.

Hubby carries a small ziplok bag of raisins when he jogs--for the very reason of episodes of low blood sugar.  It doesn't take more than a few raisins to nip it in the bud.

Thanks for the ideas. I like the idea of raisins. I wonder if a mixture of raisins and chia seeds would be a good combo.
Personally, I was never diagnosed with hypoglycemia, but I had a sugar meter for awhile and caught some really low readings. Before that a young gal with diabetes who lived in the same building had a meter. I felt like c____ one AM and saw her in the hallway and she checked my sugar. She said, "When mine is that low I go to the ER." I went down the street a few paces to a little store and bought orange juice. Fixed some food than was OK. went through some episodes of nearly passing out.
I found that I couldn't go too long without eating, but for whatever reason I never developed diabetes and the hypoglycemia seemed to go away.
As a young teen I would sometimes feel like I was going to pass out in the AM I think my BP and blood sugar were both low. It wasn't my diet, had a "good" all American diet ...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 08:40:13 AM by Yowbarb »

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #157 on: February 10, 2018, 08:31:28 AM »
PS this might be a decent treat or endurance food, from the Running On Real Food blog. You can print it out from the page.
... 
VEGAN OATMEAL RAISIN BARS WITH HEMP AND CHIA SEEDS

https://runningonrealfood.com/vegan-oatmeal-raisin-bars-hemp-chia-seeds/

Vegan Oatmeal Raisin Bars with Hemp and Chia Seeds

★★★★★

5 from 1 reviews

Author: Ashley Melillo
Category: Snack, Bar
Cuisine: Vegan, Gluten-Free
Ingredients
1 ½ cups medjool dates, pitted and packed
1 cup gluten-free rolled oats
½ cup raw walnuts
¼ cup hemp seeds
¼ cup chia seeds
1 ½ teaspoons ground cinnamon
¼ teaspoon ground nutmeg
½ cup raisins
1/4 cup pepitas

Instructions
Add the dates, oats, walnuts, hemp seeds, chia seeds, cinnamon, and nutmeg to a food processor. Pulse several times and then process until a crumbly, sticky mixture is formed.
Transfer the mixture to a large mixture bowl, add in the raisins and pepitas, and fold to incorporate.
Line a 9×13” baking pan with parchment paper. Transfer the mixture to the pan, and use your hands to press down into the pan. You’ll only need about two-thirds of the pan, so push the mixture up against one side of the pan and work out from there, forming a ½-inch-thick bar. Note: if the mixture is sticking to your hands, wet them slightly to repel the stickiness of the dates.
Transfer the pan to the freezer to set for 1 hour.
Once set, remove the large bar from the pan by lifting up the parchment paper. Slice into squares.
Notes
Note: I recommend storing these energy squares in the freezer to maintain a firm, sink-your-teeth-in-yummy texture.

Find it online: https://runningonrealfood.com/vegan-oatmeal-raisin-bars-hemp-chia-seeds/

Yowbarb

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #158 on: February 10, 2018, 08:37:31 AM »
Seems like these Vegan Oatmeal Raisin Bars with Hemp and Chia Seeds would be a good thing to top off breakfast with, and bring some along if about to bug out for a long long drive.

ilinda

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #159 on: February 10, 2018, 06:01:51 PM »
Sugar, sugar cubes, etc., are probably fine for some people, but I suspect either genetic or epigenetic factors are at play in some people.  For example the oldest person in our family, Aunt Mary, who lived to be 100 yrs. plus a couple of months, had hypoglycemia, the condition that was more than the "blip" I would experience as an overdosing-on-sugar teen.

Aunt Mary learned from her doctor she should never eat white sugar because of her condition.  She ate ham, eggs, bacon, etc., but never overate.  She learned to keep her blood sugar stable.  If she hadn't she probably would have developed diabetes.

I can think of a number of foods I could easily carry besides sugar, which would provide plenty of energy.  So, I say let the sugar cube crowd carry their sugar, while I carry something else.  We'll all be happy and get the calories we need.

Hubby carries a small ziplok bag of raisins when he jogs--for the very reason of episodes of low blood sugar.  It doesn't take more than a few raisins to nip it in the bud.

Thanks for the ideas. I like the idea of raisins. I wonder if a mixture of raisins and chia seeds would be a good combo.
Personally, I was never diagnosed with hypoglycemia, but I had a sugar meter for awhile and caught some really low readings. Before that a young gal with diabetes who lived in the same building had a meter. I felt like c____ one AM and saw her in the hallway and she checked my sugar. She said, "When mine is that low I go to the ER." I went down the street a few paces to a little store and bought orange juice. Fixed some food than was OK. went through some episodes of nearly passing out.
I found that I couldn't go too long without eating, but for whatever reason I never developed diabetes and the hypoglycemia seemed to go away.
As a young teen I would sometimes feel like I was going to pass out in the AM I think my BP and blood sugar were both low. It wasn't my diet, had a "good" all American diet ...
I think your idea of raisins and chia seeds is even better than just raisins alone.  My own gut feeling is that even though sweet fruit or even a sugar cube will help the immediate problem of low blood sugar, the longer term solution should be something like cottage cheese or hard cheese (not a lot) as soon as symptoms appear.  I did learn that as a teenager and that's when I learned to LOVE cottage cheese.  Of course it's not that easy to lug around cottage cheese while jogging.

But chia or quinoa, mixed with raisins or maybe dried persimmons--whatever you have, sounds like a good combo.

Interestingly, there seem to be many symptoms of hypoglycemia, one being a jittery feeling.  Others include mental confusion, sleepy feeling, agitation, restllessness, etc.  I don't do well with those symptoms.  Also interesting is something I just realized now that I have written those symptoms down!  Whenever I get my eyes dilated by ophthalmologist, that drug that they put in/on your eye to dilate it, causes me to have the very same symptoms.  I think agitation, anxiety and restlessness are the most prominent.  Hubby experiences the same thing so we both procrastinate on eye doctor visits. 

It must mean that in addition to dilating the pupil, the drug must lower blood sugar!

And last but not least, Socrates in discussing sugar, has given me the idea of making some of our maple sap this year into maple sugar.  It's not a lot more work, just a few careful steps at the end of the boil.  I don't eat white sugar, but will certainly eat maple sugar if we have it, and will never turn down authentic honey.  Maple sugar and honey---ahhh, almost perfect foods.

Jimfarmer

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #160 on: February 10, 2018, 10:48:02 PM »
Searched for "chia seeds mayan warriors"  and got:

Salvia hispanica, a member of the mint family, is the plant that produces the seeds. ... The word “chia” originated from a similar word in the Mayan language that means “strength.” The Aztec warriors used the seeds to boost their energy and increase their stamina, causing it to be referred to as “Aztec Running Food.”

Socrates

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Re: what is 'survival food' / chia and sugar cubes
« Reply #161 on: February 11, 2018, 02:49:10 AM »
In Chris McDougal's book Born to Run he mentions that the Tarahumara would eat chia for bursts of energy. And since they are light to carry, i expect they are an acceptable option.

As far as sugar cubes so far, this thread is on "survival food", not diet. I don't know what y'all think of when talking "survival", but i'm thinking you are carrying a bag on your back that needs to be a light as can be and that every damn pound you have to carry you don't need to, you really don't want to...
Neither is "survival" about homesteading, let alone about the trials of everyday life. Everything i've said in regard to sugar cubes is with that in mind. Not only am i not a 'sugar person', i've hardly touched anything with any sugar in it for many months. On the other hand, i am a realist when it comes to survival situations, the kind i've been in a number of times in my life.

Sugar cubes are an idea for EDC or BOB and then you're talking the kind of bag you have lying around near hand at all times that's as small and light as possible.
The original question was concerning 500 calories of seeds vs 1000 calories of sugar; I say the seeds [perhaps barring chia] take up too much space. Well, maybe someone might then say: "How much space do seeds take up?", but we're only[!] talking 500 calories worth here; how long is that going to last you? Not half a day, especially if you're running for your life.
Sugar cubes are light, small and keep indefinitely. They are perfect for emergencies. And when you're talking "survival", you're talking emergencies.

My point with the whole thread was to point out how people get caught up in everyday considerations and try to extrapolate such things to emergency considerations and how that does not work. For instance, even someone with hypoglycemia would benefit from a sugar cube if they haven't had anything to eat for a day or two!
What do you do for someone who's diabetic and fallen unconscious? Ya put some sugar in their mouth! Shouldn't diabetics avoid sugar in general? Of course they should; but in case of a diabetic emergency[ [there's that word again], sugar is their friend.
I say the same applies to any emergency situation. And all that extra weight and volume you say now that you are prepared to carry around to assuage your ideas about what's healthy or preferable do not apply to emergency situations.
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R.R. Book

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #162 on: February 15, 2018, 10:40:29 AM »
Socrates sent me a link to a .pdf version of The Lost Ways II, which had this to say about acorns, if anyone is interested:

Quote
Acorns have traditionally been used as forage for pigs, but they are also edible for human use. Gather acorns in the fall and store them whole in a cool, dry place for use throughout the winter. Because acorns contain bitter tannins, which can hinder digestion, they need to be cracked, chopped and soaked in several changes of water before eating. Soak them until the water no longer turns brown, then cook or dry for use as a flour. Acorns can also be used as a coffee substitute.


R.R. Book

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #163 on: February 15, 2018, 11:53:06 AM »
With spring on the way, I'm always interested in plants that are both edible and produce beautiful perennial flowers.  In the link that Socrates sent is an explanation of wild potato vine (Ipomoea pandurata), which is a lovely white morning glory that produces an edible potato at its root:

Quote
Identification: An Herbaceous perennial, the wild potato-vine grows in woodland areas. It is also known as man of the earth, wild potato vine, manroot, wild sweet potato, and wild rhubarb and produces white 185  funnel-shaped flowers (morning-glory) with a reddish-purple throat. The thin, heart-shaped leaves are 3 to 6 inches long. Unlike other morning-glories, it has ridged sepals and an enlarged root that can grow to be several feet long, 5 inches in diameter, and weigh up to 30 pounds.




R.R. Book

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Re: what is 'survival food' / what to think of
« Reply #164 on: February 15, 2018, 12:29:00 PM »
Another item from Soc's .pdf is titled "How to Preserve Half a Pig for Year Without Refrigeration."

Quote
Curing the Meat
Get your meat ready. I will be curing approximately half a pig and a whole rabbit, but it can be done with any kind of meat, a large amount of salt, and a container. Make sure the meat is as fresh as possible!

Quote
Pour around 3/4 to 1 inch of salt onto the bottom of the container, and place the pieces of meat inside one by one. Make sure to rub the salt into the meat as much as you can. You can also add more salt to the mixture, but don’t overdo it.

Quote
The meat must be brought to a fairly cool place in order for it to cure; the ideal temperature is 43–46.5°F. Because of this, the process is ideal in winter or fall, when the temperature is lower.

Quote
Let the meat sit inside the container with the salt for a few days. After one to two days have gone by, the meat will start leaking juices. Using this juice, wash the meat free of the salt, and then salt it once more until you can barely see the meat.

Quote
Flip it twice a day for two weeks then remove it and wash it off with its own juices once more. Then grab an egg from the fridge since you will need it for the next step.

Quote
Making the Curing Broth and Letting the Meat Rest
Next make a broth as this will cure the meat and give it the proper taste.
Ingredients:
• 4 gallons of water
• 2 ounces of garlic
• 13 bay leaves
• 15 pieces of allspice
• 10 pieces of cloves
• 25 pieces of juniper berries or pine nuts
• 4 tbsp chili flakes
• 1 tbsp Provence seasoning mix
• 4 tbsp powdered paprika
• a small onion
• 3 tbsp black pepper
• 1 teaspoon dried thyme
• 2/3 cup brown sugar (increases the effectiveness of the salt)
• 2 tbsp ground coriander

Quote
Put all the ingredients (except the onion and the garlic) into a pot, and boil them for half an hour to an hour.  After that, let the broth cool and add the finely cut garlic, the onion slices, and the meat for curing.  I mixed in the juices from the meat for extra flavor and mixed it all thoroughly.

Quote
To test if your broth is perfect, you can use an ancient technique that involves the egg you got out earlier.
The perfect salt level for the broth can be checked by placing the egg into the mixture; only half of the egg should be submerged inside it.
If you don’t have a meat thermometer, three-fourths of the egg should be out of the water.  Place the meat in the broth, and leave it inside for two whole weeks.  Make sure all of it is submerged under the mixture. I’ve also turned the meat over every two days to make sure it is well mixed.

Quote
If you decide that you want a meat that will last up to a year without the need for a fridge or freezer, then don’t bother making this mixture or only leave it inside for 6–12 hours.  Leave this meat inside a dry and well-aired place until you want to use it. For example, you could use an out of use furnace or a chilly storage room.
The meat from this will only be good for soups as its high salt concentration will not be good for eating it on its own. Before cooking, leave the meat in cold water for 12–24 hours, with three to four water changes; after this, it will be good for soups.

Quote
Warning: Even after letting the cold water soak up some of the salt concentration, the meat will most likely still have enough salt that you won’t need to salt the soup.

Then he provides a section on how to cold-smoke the meat after brining, if not leaving dry-rubbed.

Image taken from http://2footalligator.blogspot.com/2011/02/curing-salt-pork.html


« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:28:10 PM by R.R. Book »

 

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