Author Topic: SEEDS...  (Read 9897 times)

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2017, 05:11:45 PM »
From this article, Pontiac sounds like an heirloom dating back to the Great Depression, with good keeping qualities: http://potatoassociation.org/industry/varieties/red-rounds-potato-varieties/red-pontiac-solanum-tuberosum .  Fedco says that Kennebec is a good Northern potato able to grow under harsh conditions, as well as being good keepers that are resistant to late blight and leaf hoppers ( https://www.fedcoseeds.com/moose/?item=7270 ).  Sounds as if you found two more worthwhile cultivars to bring forward, Ilinda!
Farmer friend did say Pontiac is an heirloom potato.

While we're on the subject of potatoes, I must mention another of my favorites--Caribe.  OMG, this is wonderful for several reasons. 

It has a beautiful blue/purple skin with white flesh.  It grows to nice size, depending on soil fertility and conditions, but I've grown some really nice bakers before.  And here's the best part of all:  it matures in 62 days.  Yes, from planting to harvest, it is about 62 days.  I didn't believe it when I read that, so carefully noted my dates and found that yes, you can harvest it that early.  It must somehow be a faster grower than many other potatoes.  Oh, and it tastes great--IIRC not watery, but with substance.

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2017, 05:50:25 PM »
Looked up Caribe (pronounced Ka-ree-bay) on WoodPrairie's website, and read the customers' reviews: resistant to Colorado potato beetle, disease resistant, consistent producer in spite of adverse conditions, huge size, capable of a second crop in a single year, and heavily bearing.  Ilinda, if it crops in 2 months, then there is still time to order and plant it.  Thanks for the heads up!

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2017, 03:56:52 PM »
Now that we're on the subject of Caribe, I too might have to order some as, even a July 1 planting would mature here, unless some truly bizarre early frost, or equally bizarre heat wave.  So far summer has started off with nice cooler nights, while others I see are not so lucky.

So, Caribe, here ilinda comes!  Let's compare notes at season's end, if you and I both plant these beauties.

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2017, 06:25:16 PM »
OK, Will order some tomorrow morning :)

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2017, 04:18:51 PM »
Today I prepared my Caribe order from a fellow Seed Savers Exchange member, and what a bio he has.  Just our discussion of potatoes, and Caribe has caused me to read this guy's bio, and learn a whole lot in a short amount of time.  Here are some excerpts from his lengthy bio:

"The professional grade cooler to store potato is really paying off.  Some wild potato cultivars can be stored for up to 14 years.  I'm testing multi-year storage, so more seed tubers can be available any given year.  Also in 2016 I have been able to compare planting 2015 tubers vs. 2014 tubers with some success!  It is believed that long term cold storage turns potato viruses off, therefore providing an inexpensive method of healing....

I realized that my project is a valid research to determine how yields change with growing global temps and/or drought conditions.  This is very valuable info for the gardeners who don't have much space.  Out of my collection of almost 500 strains of potato, I have selected 20 with the highest yields when grown in containers AND without irrigation...

The botanical seed of potato is extracted from the potato fruit berries and is started like you grow tomato seed.  The life expectancy of TPS (True Potato Seed) may exceed 50 years.  Each seed is like a snowflake, every one seed will grow a different plant and produce tubers which are genetically different than the mother plant.  That's why the progeny tubers are reoffered with a different name...
"

And, in the details of his "Caribe" listing, he says: "medium, large oblong purple tubers, white flesh, rich flavor, bright purple skin color fades in storage, grows quite large in ideal conditions, vines dry out early, bred by AgCanada and released in 1969. The vines develop seed berries which points to flower fertility.  TPS is available."

That is the first time I've ever encountered the suggestion that in cold storage, potato viruses could be eliminated.  Further I've never heard of such long-term potato storage of 14 years! And last but not least, the shocker is that TPS (true potato seed) life expectancy may exceed 50 years!  This crop this year will not be for eating, but for acquiring the valuable genetics of this variety, including the seed/seed berries.

Maybe the ancient Incas of Peru were able to maintain so many different potato varieties with the help of cold storage in the mountains in winter. Who knows.



R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2017, 05:05:01 PM »
Hi Ilinda, 

That is truly amazing information.  Is the TPS kept in an envelope just like other saved seed, as opposed to cold storage?  Sounds as if the genetic permutations and opportunities for selection would be nearly endless!


ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2017, 04:58:41 PM »
I am going to find out more, as I also want to save the true seed from this Caribe variety.  Hope to save every single seed from every single "berry".

Further, last night I was looking through the guy's potato listings and found another equally intriguing variety, whose name, I think, is "Papa Chocha".  I will post on it tomorrow, as the information on it was so tantalizing that I also ordered it.  Update to follow.

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2017, 07:02:17 PM »
Papa Chonca is the correct name of the Peruvian potato.  A guy in Wisconsin is growing it, along with several hundred other potatoes, and the Papa Chonca sounds REALLY interesting!

Here is his description in Seed Savers Exchange Yearbook 2017:
"Medium-small fingerling shaped tubers, lavender skin, purple flesh, very late -- if left to fully mature, tubers may grow to 5" long. 

It may be the ultimate perennial potato--small tubers left in the ground overwintered and spread over a large area (hint:  spreads like mint) 2011

 I've been able to harvest about 5 # from the 6 X 6' area--that's how far it spread over 2 years (overwintered two years so far very tall vines (last to dry off).  The tubers cook starchy.  I like to cut them horizontally and cook them in my breakfast soup (careful, they bleed and stain).  Interesting how some potato cuts warp and the center of the pieces dissolve into my soup, while the surface stays attached to the skin (almost seems waxy in texture)--eaten with the skins, they have a very intense, pleasant taste.
"

Well, I might add that after reading that, I did place an order.  Heck since they overwinter, maybe I should just save the tubes and plant them this fall for their first overwintering in MO.

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2017, 07:08:51 PM »
Ilinda, Are these a different cultivar then, from the Purple Peruvians, or are they the same thing?

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2017, 05:58:44 PM »
Ilinda, Are these a different cultivar then, from the Purple Peruvians, or are they the same thing?
I'm sure they are different because the skin is described as lavender.  Purple Peruvian skin is deep blueish-purple, but I could never call it lavender.

After thinking about the similarity, though, between the two potatoes, they could be related, and also, they may share some of the same growth habits, including the winter survival and growth the following spring, which is exactly what my Purple Peruvians did.  The main difference (aside from color) is that since mine were grown in a rocky, not-so-rich bed, they were not as prolific as they could have been, nor were the garlic, as the garlic was one of my poorest crops ever, presumably due to the rocky bed.

So I do suspect that both of these potatoes will do very well after overwintering, and I'm going to find out in Spring, 2018, hopefully.

Socrates

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maca
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2017, 10:10:38 PM »
i'd like to find a good source of maca seed or root [South American potato], if anyone happens to know.
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2017, 10:49:51 AM »
Socrates, There are a bunch of listings on Ebay, depending upon what color you prefer.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Maca-Root-100-Seeds-shipped-using-forever-stamp-no-tacking-/302357879988

Also:
https://www.amazon.com/Seeds-GROWN-ABCs-Gardening-Samenchilishop/dp/B00K4240KK

https://www.worldseedsupply.com/product/lepedium-meyenii-black-maca-seeds/

Am getting conflicting info on cold hardiness - most sources agree that is it cold hardy as it survives the Andes, but some place it in hardiness zones 8-11, which are sub-tropical here.



« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 01:01:26 PM by R.R. Book »

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2017, 11:15:58 AM »
Ilinda, Once again you have me intrigued!

Am getting interesting results from a little potato experiment here:

Garden A: At the beginning of June, I planted several kinds of full-sized potatoes using Socrates' recommended above-ground hugelkultur (from the Ruth Stout film) and no soil, but rather hay, peat moss and chopped leaves.  Shoots were slow to push up, but growth is healthy and plants are already needing to be hilled up with the next layer of non-soil compost.

Garden B: Also planted fingerlings using just rich potting soil in galvanized tubs with drainage holes at the bottom.  Shoots pushed up immediately, and 3 weeks later I already can harvest some, but, especially with Ozette, there are also already a few tubers with fungal rot.  Fortunately, there is still time to re-plant at least once more before frost, and perhaps the best plan is to eat summer-grown ones now and overwinter seed from the final crop, since they mature so rapidly. 

With both methods, I started with whole potatoes, on the grounds that there might be less chance of disease if no cuts were made, and also with the aim in mind of making good use of our shorter northern growing season.

Am thinking about donating the rich (and infected / fungal innoculated) potting soil from the fingerling tubs to the asparagus patch, which could use another top layer of soil, and then putting hay, peat, etc. in the tubs to prevent further soil-borne infections, same as with the hugelkultur beds.

You had mentioned poor cropping with Ozette, and now I'm wondering if the fact that they mature more rapidly than stated (Seed providers place them in the late / long growing season category) might cause crops to rot in the ground before the grower would ever think to harvest from them?

Have not been watering much, and there has been occasional rain.  Soil seems well-drained and slightly moist.  Am forming the conclusion that soil will always harbor fungi and other microbes, and is best not used with potatoes.  Would love thoughts on this.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 02:40:24 PM by R.R. Book »

ilinda

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2017, 05:48:25 PM »
Ilinda, Once again you have me intrigued!

Am getting interesting results from a little potato experiment here:

Garden A: At the beginning of June, I planted several kinds of full-sized potatoes using Socrates' recommended above-ground hugelkultur (from the Ruth Stout film) and no soil, but rather hay, peat moss and chopped leaves.  Shoots were slow to push up, but growth is healthy and plants are already needing to be hilled up with the next layer of non-soil compost.

Garden B: Also planted fingerlings using just rich potting soil in galvanized tubs with drainage holes at the bottom.  Shoots pushed up immediately, and 3 weeks later I already can harvest some, but, especially with Ozette, there are also already a few tubers with fungal rot.  Fortunately, there is still time to re-plant at least once more before frost, and perhaps the best plan is to eat summer-grown ones now and overwinter seed from the final crop, since they mature so rapidly. 

With both methods, I started with whole potatoes, on the grounds that there might be less chance of disease if no cuts were made, and also with the aim in mind of making good use of our shorter northern growing season.

Am thinking about donating the rich (and infected / fungal innoculated) potting soil from the fingerling tubs to the asparagus patch, which could use another top layer of soil, and then putting hay, peat, etc. in the tubs to prevent further soil-borne infections, same as with the hugelkultur beds.

You had mentioned poor cropping with Ozette, and now I'm wondering if the fact that they mature more rapidly than stated (Seed providers place them in the late / long growing season category) might cause crops to rot in the ground before the grower would ever think to harvest from them?

Have not been watering much, and there has been occasional rain.  Soil seems well-drained and slightly moist.  Am forming the conclusion that soil will always harbor fungi and other microbes, and is best not used with potatoes.  Would love thoughts on this.
I agree with you that the soil will always harbor fungi and other microbes, both good and bad.  But I also believe that the so-called "bad" microbes and other small entities are probably mostly opportunistic, and when soil is poor or needing in something the opportunivores will rear their heads.  If soil is truly healthy, crops tend to be healthy.

Like you and Socrates, I do not cut potatoes for planting anymore.  Years ago, did, but now just whole potatoes are planted.  Also, very recently I learned that when you are sorting through your sprouting potatoes for planting, if you have more than you can plant, then pick those with the thickest sprouts.  Leave the thin sprouted potatoes alone or compost them.  The thick sprouts tend to become larger potatoes. 

Also, we have grown "straw" or "hay" potatoes and they do really well for us if we have adequate rain.  If in drought, we'll get a harvest, but it may be marginal.  But it is like magic to go out to the potato patch and around harvest time, to lift up a corner of the thick hay and see nice tubers!  We did impress some friends once and they actually wondered if we placed the potatoes there for the demo!  If they get adequate rain, and the hay is thick enough (you may need to add during the season) then usually a good crop follows.

I now wonder about Ozette's length of growing!  In the thing I read it talked about how they didn't have to harvest until late October, and it seemed to say the Ozette can stay in the ground a very long time, so no need to do anything until all else is done, like late October.  I wonder now if they were ready several months earlier, but I let them rot.  Could be.  Will keep this in mind for future.

Will be interested in your experience with container-grown potatoes.  Farmer friend, Shirley grows carrots like that and has really good luck.  Plus she likes their being up off the ground and says that nothing can scale the metal sides of the old swimming pool, or the other metal containers that she uses for carrots.

R.R. Book

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Re: SEEDS...
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2017, 12:16:04 PM »
Thanks for input Ilinda,

The only thing that still puzzles me is that the potting soil was new and supposedly "sterile," if that is really ever possible with soil.  Maybe the fungal spores came from the potatoes themselves then.

Will look for Papa Chonca now!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 01:48:33 PM by R.R. Book »