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Author Topic: arid and semi-arid farming  (Read 3735 times)

Socrates

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arid and semi-arid farming
« on: August 02, 2016, 02:43:13 AM »
Project Deep Roots is a good example of how it turns out to be possible to grow food in regions most people consider desert i.e. worthless. Of course the great thing about people thinking where you are is worthless is that they're less likely to come a'knockin, looking for what you might have.

The Hopi Indians were able to grow corn in dry regions using the above special technique. Worth looking into, especially since corn is the ultimate survival crop.
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ilinda

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 06:22:07 PM »
Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden is a good read and intro. to gardening as some NativeAmericans practiced it.

Socrates

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 10:52:36 PM »
Thanks, ilinda. I'll have to check it out. [online here]

Desert to Oasis is Geoff Lawton's other masterpiece (besides his Greening the Desert project in Jordan).

In this short video you can see how he set up an oasis in a truly barren landscape.
The importance of Geoff Lawton's permaculture exploits cannot be overstated and should not be ignored by anyone, but especially not by survivalists.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:59:03 AM by Socrates »
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ilinda

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 06:45:39 PM »
Thanks, ilinda. I'll have to check it out. [online here]

Desert to Oasis is Geoff Lawton's other masterpiece (besides his Greening the Desert project in Jordan).

In this short video you can see how he set up an oasis in a truly barren landscape.
The importance of Geoff Lawton's permaculture exploits cannot be overstated and should not be ignored by anyone, but especially not by survivalists.
I'll do a bit of searching, as Geoff Lawton really rings a bell and maybe he has been mentioned or featured in ACRES, U.S.A., a fine publication devoted to growing foods sustainably and without toxic synthetics, (whether we call it organic or not). 

In currently reading Carol Deppe's The Resiliant Gardener, I'm learning how very much more useful potatoes are, and how much more flexible and forgiving they are than our warm- and hot-weather crops.  I'll try to post a few choice quotations from her excellent book, which is showing me how much I have to still learn about growing food!

Speaking of growing food, we have, for decades, tried to grow our own fruit trees.  The most successful so far have been the Asian pears, specifically the "Shinko" variety, a very crisp and sweet pear that is more apple-like than are other pears.  But our problems are with wildlife.  Our four best trees produce nicely every other year, and this year started off with a bang.  We have triple caging around them to protect from deer, goats, raccoons, squirrels and ?  However, for some reason this year the raccoons and/or squirrels are back at it, and we have lost hundreds and hundreds of pears to the critters.  Tonight we spent another several hours adding more aluminum flashing to what is already attached to the cage and will know the results by tomorrow morning.

Yes, we or anyone, can use electric fencing, but that is a short-term solution.   There may be a time in our near future where we might not have the luxury of jumping in the vehicle and dashing to the nearest farm-supply store for more wire, more batteries, or whatever else we need to electrify our gardens.  We do need to be asking ourselves how we can do this with as little technology as possible, as the technology may not always be there.

Many Native cultures create "stick fences" which do work in stopping many critters, and we may be reduced to that someday.  I do remember a tip from Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden, in which she discusses the "watchers", which were those who were assigned to watch over the corn while it was up on the drying stage, i.e., to watch it and protect it from wildlife.  So much to learn.....

Socrates

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 01:36:05 AM »
What's the first thing i'd do if parachuted into the 3rd world?

This is a thread on the Permies [biggest permaculture] forum that i find intriguing.
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ilinda

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 03:55:33 PM »
What's the first thing i'd do if parachuted into the 3rd world?

This is a thread on the Permies [biggest permaculture] forum that i find intriguing.
Lots of good ideas there for sure.  And certainly it would be difficult to be plunked down into any third world country and expect to survive, w/o knowing a little about the climate, vegetation, wildlife, etc., there.  Thinking the first 30 days would be the hardest, assuming you survive.  But the rest wouldn't be easy either.

Socrates

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 06:25:53 PM »
So that's the point, both of this permaculture thread and why i place it here: with basic permaculture knowhow, you CAN survive.

Mainstream thinking leads us all to believe that farming is tedious, complicated and based on luck. Mainstreamers would have us believe that the 30% desertification of the world's arable soils is due to climate change or something. Permaculture folk know better. It's a matter of shere incompetence. You have to understand that farmers all over the world have been working very hard to destroy their own lands through their destructive methods. Permaculture is all about methods that are sustainable and there's nothing vague or airy fairy or wishful thinking about them; they are founded in common sense and experience.

I tried to get that across in my posting on soil management: mainstream agriculture is basically a political system. Actually, when seen in that light, should we be amazed that it is incompetent...?

I cannot stress enoug the fact that soil management is a BASIC SKILL SET. I mean, when ya come to think about it, it's utter madness that we don't all grow up learning how to grow food (sustainably). And permaculture is then about reeducating people concerning these things. But it's not rocket science; it is about basic, simple and easy solutions to POLITICAL problems.

You may believe no one could easily survive being dropped on Earth without a load of supplies but that's because your culture has prepared you for such things so poorly. Permaculture is about remedying this obviously crazy condition. You have the brains and mankind has had millennia to solve such riddles but you wouldn't be able to survive where just about every animal on the planet could? That sounds crazy because it is. But that's how crazy today's cultures are.

Mainstream culture ignores soil management just as it does the matter of TEOTWAWKI. It's consistent in this sense... i.e. in the sense it's got it's head stuck up it's own ass.
You should take the time to view the links i placed with the soil management post. You really shouid. You don't have to feel as if you are powerless to provide for yourself. That's the same mainstream brainwashing as the idea that nothing could ever happen to the Earth though there are all kinds of signs that there was massive global destruction a few millennia ago; just so the destruction of arable soil is being ignored today. Folks like us, we dare look reality in the face, no? Well, look soil management in the face and you won't have to feel you're a victim of climate or nature anymore.

1. - TED Talks, George Monbiot: Rewild the World
2. - John Liu: Hope in a Changing Climate
3. - TED Talks, Allan Savory: How to Green the World's Deserts
4. - The Fordhall Project: foggage farming
5. - Cotswold Grass Seeds: foggage farming
6. - Ley Farming by George Stapledon & William Davies
7. - Paul Wheaton: the largest online permaculture forum
8. - Composting 101 - Making Compost in Bins & Piles
9  - Geoff Lawton: Greening the Desert
9. - Geoff Lawton: Desert to Oasis
10 - Paul Gautschi: woodchips for soil and fertilization
11 - Ruth Stout Method (no plough gardening)
12 - The Vedic Way: (cow dung as) The Perfect Soil
13 - irrigation: Wet Pots/ollas
14 - Groasis Waterboxx
14 - Groasis Growboxx
15 - Vetiver grass: Green Tech for the 21st century
16 - Maynard Murray: seawater fertilization
17 - Hydraulic ram pump
18 - TEDx, Joel Salatin
19 - Farming with Nature
20 - sustainable farming
21 - no till farming
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ilinda

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 04:57:28 PM »
So that's the point, both of this permaculture thread and why i place it here: with basic permaculture knowhow, you CAN survive.

Mainstream thinking leads us all to believe that farming is tedious, complicated and based on luck. Mainstreamers would have us believe that the 30% desertification of the world's arable soils is due to climate change or something. Permaculture folk know better. It's a matter of shere incompetence. You have to understand that farmers all over the world have been working very hard to destroy their own lands through their destructive methods. Permaculture is all about methods that are sustainable and there's nothing vague or airy fairy or wishful thinking about them; they are founded in common sense and experience.

I tried to get that across in my posting on soil management: mainstream agriculture is basically a political system. Actually, when seen in that light, should we be amazed that it is incompetent...?

I cannot stress enoug the fact that soil management is a BASIC SKILL SET. I mean, when ya come to think about it, it's utter madness that we don't all grow up learning how to grow food (sustainably). And permaculture is then about reeducating people concerning these things. But it's not rocket science; it is about basic, simple and easy solutions to POLITICAL problems.

You may believe no one could easily survive being dropped on Earth without a load of supplies but that's because your culture has prepared you for such things so poorly. Permaculture is about remedying this obviously crazy condition. You have the brains and mankind has had millennia to solve such riddles but you wouldn't be able to survive where just about every animal on the planet could? That sounds crazy because it is. But that's how crazy today's cultures are.

Mainstream culture ignores soil management just as it does the matter of TEOTWAWKI. It's consistent in this sense... i.e. in the sense it's got it's head stuck up it's own ass.
You should take the time to view the links i placed with the soil management post. You really shouid. You don't have to feel as if you are powerless to provide for yourself. That's the same mainstream brainwashing as the idea that nothing could ever happen to the Earth though there are all kinds of signs that there was massive global destruction a few millennia ago; just so the destruction of arable soil is being ignored today. Folks like us, we dare look reality in the face, no? Well, look soil management in the face and you won't have to feel you're a victim of climate or nature anymore.

1. - TED Talks, George Monbiot: Rewild the World
2. - John Liu: Hope in a Changing Climate
3. - TED Talks, Allan Savory: How to Green the World's Deserts
4. - The Fordhall Project: foggage farming
5. - Cotswold Grass Seeds: foggage farming
6. - Ley Farming by George Stapledon & William Davies
7. - Paul Wheaton: the largest online permaculture forum
8. - Composting 101 - Making Compost in Bins & Piles
9  - Geoff Lawton: Greening the Desert
9. - Geoff Lawton: Desert to Oasis
10 - Paul Gautschi: woodchips for soil and fertilization
11 - Ruth Stout Method (no plough gardening)
12 - The Vedic Way: (cow dung as) The Perfect Soil
13 - irrigation: Wet Pots/ollas
14 - Groasis Waterboxx
14 - Groasis Growboxx
15 - Vetiver grass: Green Tech for the 21st century
16 - Maynard Murray: seawater fertilization
17 - Hydraulic ram pump
18 - TEDx, Joel Salatin
19 - Farming with Nature
20 - sustainable farming
21 - no till farming
Having been involved in growing stuff most of my life, I can attest that there's only a modicum of luck involved!    There is a lot to learn, a lot to know, and at times it can be tedious, but that's all part of the learning curve.

One of the things people will have to give up (if they want to repair our Earth) is their fossil-fuel soil killers:  tractors and tillers.    Yeah, nobody wants to sweat or get dirt under their fingernails, but we will continue to destroy the life of the soil if we continue to till, till, till.

For the younger crowd (who has time to watch trees grow), good advice might be, after careful study of their climate and locale, to plant fruit and nut trees with the idea in mind that you plant once, but harvest yearly, and for many, many years.  Just tree fruit and tree nuts can comprise a good portion of the human (and herbivore) diet. 

Yowbarb

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2016, 12:48:52 AM »
What's the first thing i'd do if parachuted into the 3rd world?

This is a thread on the Permies [biggest permaculture] forum that i find intriguing.

Good stuff, Socrates. I'm going to read that one. :)
Be sure to check out our topics on Permaculture and add your knowledge, there too. Old but good. :)
Some of those you started, some I did...going back a few years...


Socrates

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Allan Savory's counter-intuitive lesson
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 05:43:58 PM »
For a while now i've been focused on Joel Salatin for ideas and inspiration for animal husbandry. Recently, though, i started wondering how his work and that of Allan Savory mesh. So i started looking into Dr. Savory's work in more detail [since Joel Salatin's work i already know a lot of details on].
Ultimately i thought i'd search "Salatin vs Savory" and not to my surprise i found out that Joel Salatin had been inspired by the work of Allan Savory decades ago.

What i'm posting about here is what i learned when i digged deeper into Dr. Savory's work. It turns out that i'd been working from suppositions that were false, like that Savory supports the idea of "rotational grazing". He doesn't.
And then there were the parts of his presentations about desertified areas magically transforming into grasslands simply by herding cattle through them; i heard it but didn't get it. Until now.

Apparently it's all about disturbance; when you herd [mind that word; it means leading a considerable number of ruminants exibiting herd behavior] over an area, the combination of
- eating [though there's none of that if you're herding them through dunes; still, it applies]
- hooves, and
- excrement
disturbs the dirt. Then, if some precipitation falls, whatever seeds are there will suddenly come to life.


Now, what is this disturbance not?!
- it's not about how much they eat
- it's not about the size of the herd
- it's not about how long they're on said land
I think the best way to explain this herd behavior is by what he says in one talk where he explains how he 'herded' his audience to half of the room they were in, then into half of that, then half of that, etc. ... until these people were pressed up so tightly together that the volume of the audience suddenly increased significantly, i.e. the characteristic of the group had changed. Like the difference between cattle on wide expanses of land as opposed to cattle locked up in a relatively small corral or bunched together because of the threat of carnivores. The herd shows different behavior and excites the dirt quite differently when it's forced into herd behavior. So there you have his definition of "disturbance".

He explains that so-called modern animal husbandry practices have been focused on the animal whereas the soil should have been the focus. Generally his first advice to farmers is to massively increase the number of animals they keep on their grounds, for the worst thing they can do is to not disturb the earth enough. Actually, if they double or tripple the number of animals, yes, they will get less meat per animal, but not so much less that the extra animal doesn't increase their yields...
[Wrap your head around that.]

Actually, there are two huge issues Savory is visiting here:
1: the importance of increasing soil quality
2: the benefit to the farmer
So-called modern agriculture offers something quite opposite:
1: the increased quality of the animal
2: detriment of the soil...
But what is soil bereft of animals?
Answer: ever-expanding desertification...

In the end Savory's admonition is the opposite of 'common sense' and 'common knowledge'. Hence, it is counter-intuitive.
It seems that the endless millions of bison that created the great plains [i.e. 300' deep soil farmers needed a century to deplete], were massaging the land to ever greater value.
There are actually governments that fine farmers for keeping 'too many ruminants' on a piece of land. Politics.
Apparently, the science is that the more ruminants you keep, the better.
In fact, after hearing many hours of Savory speak, it appears that even if you push the number of ruminants until failure, you will have, in the end, only succeeded in promoting the quality of your soil...

People like Joel Salatin have used Savory's experience, research and insights to their benefit, increasing the number of ruminants they can keep on their land while the quality of their soil expands rather than declines. The world needs to learn from these masters who have a life's worth of experience and experimentation to show for their efforts.
What is the hubris of a politician compared to that...?

I'm thinking i'd rather have a relatively heavy cow massage the earth than a slight and dainty Ouessant, but from listening to hours of Savory talk about ruminants, apparently sheep work too, assuming they're exibiting herd traits.

I would end with my final recommondation in relation to getting ruminants to behave as a herd [i.e. without carnivores]: the Australian Cattle Dog; of the Rhodisian Ridgeback and Malinois, on the one hand it may seem the lesser option, but on the other hand it is the greater herder, and smaller to boot [i.e. requiring less to feed, but none the less fearsome/fearless].

In case you're wondering, yeah, after the herd has disturbed the land, plants should be allowed to recuperate. However...
The worst thing you can do is to either not disturb the land or not often enough; it turns out that many farmers allow the plants to recuperate from having been eaten but that the earth had been not disturbed enough to increase the quality of the soil.

Apparently the greatest increase of soil quality was where herds had been corraled together for the night... i.e. which had nothing to do with what they were eating or anything, but everything to do with how much a herd can disturb a plot of land.
Based on my research of the last few days, apparently you can have a herd feed off of land and then one should corral them onto whatever land you deem most in need of disturbance. Then, generally [though dependent on climate, season, etc.], one allows the land to recuperate for a few months before allowing the herd to come by there again.
It is a wholly different view from the one in which one is focused on plants or animals...
One should be focused on soil and the animals are the tool you use.


Were these distinctions clear from the above?
It seems complicated, i know. Until it's not...  ::)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 02:43:42 AM by Socrates »
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Socrates

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Re: Allan Savory's counter-intuitive lesson
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2020, 01:27:55 AM »
if they double or tripple the number of animals, yes, they will get less meat per animal, but not so much less that the extra animal doesn't increase their yields...
[Wrap your head around that.]

Actually, there are two huge issues Savory is visiting here:
1: the importance of increasing soil quality
2: the benefit to the farmer
So-called modern agriculture offers something quite opposite:
1: the increased quality of the animal
2: detriment of the soil...
Rereading this is realize that i avoided a huge societal point / effect i heard him speak of, and that's about small farms failing that ultimately led to this situation in which not 90% of families are connected to farming but only maybe 3% of folks today are...
Savory mentions that suicide rates were enormous, with farmers going bankrupt everywhere. [Actually, i've heard the same about Indian farmers; we tend to think of suicide as an urban problem, but that's likely a myth or worse.]

Bad animal practices have...
- destroyed our (agricultural) soils
- created enormous deserts / desertified regions [comprising at least 30% of the world's farmlands and growing]
- created this 'global warming' effect that's caused by CO2 in the atmosphere
- disrupted and fundamentally changed society
- brought about the corporation of agriculture, bringing family farms into the hands of big business.


I have in my library Jared Diamond's Collapse which is mainly about how cultures throughout the world and history have self-destructed by destroying their own environment, mainly by decimating forests, but perhaps even more important is how cultures / peoples have destroyed their environment by bad animal husbandry practices, leading / using animals to increase whatever damage they could manage by hand or by tool.
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R.R. Book

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Re: arid and semi-arid farming
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 07:13:16 AM »
Quote
Apparently the greatest increase of soil quality was where herds had been corraled together for the night... i.e. which had nothing to do with what they were eating or anything, but everything to do with how much a herd can disturb a plot of land.
Based on my research of the last few days, apparently you can have a herd feed off of land and then one should corral them onto whatever land you deem most in need of disturbance. Then, generally [though dependent on climate, season, etc.], one allows the land to recuperate for a few months before allowing the herd to come by there again.

Some like to let chickens tear up a patch nicely before the next planting, though they don't bear weight on the soil like ruminants.  Their claws do the fine tuning nicely though  :)


Socrates

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Re: disturbance by other animals
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 06:07:24 PM »
Joel Salatin also suggests pigs tear up the place they're penned up in, creating a kind of 'natural disaster' from which the land then goes on to heal. And as long as said place is given time to heal, it just ends up improving the quality of soil and plantlife.

It's a good point, though. In fact, one of my greatest frustrations concerning preparing for an end-of-the-world scenario is that i'll likely not be able to save any cattle for the future. However, some Kune Kune or chickens do indeed also create significant disturbance. Not the kind that will transform hundreds of acres (i.e. like cattle might), but enough for a homestead for sure.

So this then would be the great gift of Savory's research and experience, that one might let loose cattle, pigs or chickens on a piece of desertified ground, ending up with said ground being transformed into valuable land again thanks to the disturbance created by whatever animals were applied. Indeed, we might not even need ruminants then.
[Muscovy ducks also dig up the earth and would be valuable for such endeavours.]
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ilinda

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Re: Allan Savory's counter-intuitive lesson
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2020, 06:35:37 PM »
In case you're wondering, yeah, after the herd has disturbed the land, plants should be allowed to recuperate. However...
The worst thing you can do is to either not disturb the land or not often enough; it turns out that many farmers allow the plants to recuperate from having been eaten but that the earth had been not disturbed enough to increase the quality of the soil.

Apparently the greatest increase of soil quality was where herds had been corraled together for the night... i.e. which had nothing to do with what they were eating or anything, but everything to do with how much a herd can disturb a plot of land.
Based on my research of the last few days, apparently you can have a herd feed off of land and then one should corral them onto whatever land you deem most in need of disturbance. Then, generally [though dependent on climate, season, etc.], one allows the land to recuperate for a few months before allowing the herd to come by there again.
Recalling Gabe Brown's discussion of how soon to reintroduce cattle onto an area again,  he said rainfall and water conditions are really important.  For example, IIRC, he said he keeps the animals off of a given plot (after they've "ravaged" it) for something like 13 or 16 months, where it's very dry, but in places with much regular rainfall, he said it may be as short as a few months.

Good discussion/dissection, BTW, of Savory vs. Salatin.

Socrates

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Allan Savory
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 12:26:06 AM »
Recalling Gabe Brown's discussion of how soon to reintroduce cattle onto an area again,  he said rainfall and water conditions are really important.  For example, IIRC, he said he keeps the animals off of a given plot (after they've "ravaged" it) for something like 13 or 16 months, where it's very dry, but in places with much regular rainfall, he said it may be as short as a few months.

Good discussion/dissection, BTW, of Savory vs. Salatin.
Thanks, Linda. And you made a good point on keeping animals off of a given plot for long lengths of time in certain conditions, for that may indeed be appropriate in arid regions. Or it may not...
for if disturbing the land is so important [i.e. according to Savory], then leading your herd over land isn't always about them feeding there or letting plant life recuperate.
At the same time, though, Gabe Brown's example does underline Savory's reason why he is against using the term "rotational grazing" [or practicing it], since Savory stresses that there are simply many more variables at play when planning the grazing of your animals. He stresses that all systems fail, except in the most forgiving environments / circumstances [situations that are very predictable].

Listening to him talk for hours, disturbance is key. He has many examples of people putting in years of applying his principles of planned grazing but somehow not getting much in the way of results. So apparently this set him on considering what's missing. And apparently one can plan the hell out of one's animals' grazing but still come away with little advantage... until one focuses on disturbance. (After all, the planned grazing is good for the plants, but ideally you're at least also looking to what's good for the soil.)

 
I'm not finished looking into the finer details of his research and will order his book Holistic Management asap, as well as the book his work's based on, Grass Productivity by André Voisin.
However, i ran into this pdf written by Savory and found the writing pompous and overbearing... This triggers the rebel in me, which one might find ironic since Savory himself seems quite the rebel when it comes to agrarian and animal husbandry practices. Anyway, i'm thinking maybe the world needs someone to make Savory's knowledge and ideas palatable. Which, again, is ironic since Savory himself includes aspects like local wants, traditions and regulation as part of holistic management.
It begs the question: Does Savory need someone to objectively consider his work, insights and knowledge in a way that is fresh and objective?

Quoting one source, Savory's holistic planned grazing involves:
- brittleness scale [how much drought/year]
- whole natural systems [nature v culture]
- predator relationship [herd behavior], and
- timing [many people use the terms rotational grazing and mob grazing interchangeably with Holistic Planned Grazing. They are not the same and the fundamental difference is the insight of timing]

In the above source, disturbance is not mentioned as a chief component. Mob grazing is mentioned later on, but not as a key feature of holistic planned grazing. And maybe this has to do with Savory's pompous and overbearing stance, for he's been promoting his holistic planned grazing literally for decades but is honest enough to go out into the field and see (and share) when progress isn't all that impressive [at least not as impressive as is possible]. So then there's me, listening for hours, trying to understand why and how Savory's methods might work, and getting the distinct impression that maybe Savory's suffering from the law of the handicap of a head start. [This principle is originally by a Dutchman and truly sounds much better in Dutch. Y'all English need to find a better term, for in historical contexts it is a principle that comes back again and again. Anyway...]
Fact is, Savory has been at this gig for like half a century and his past comes back to bite him in the arse. He has learned by now what's what but that took time and effort, i.e. a lifetime's work. And god bless him for his perserverence and fortitude! Nonetheless, his efforts today seem hampered by the fact that Google searches and the like don't distinguish between Savory's insights a decade ago compared to what they are now. And since most folks aren't as diligent in their research as your's truly [ :P], things get unclear. So...

The work of Allan Savory as far as i get it [and how i wish i could get his feedback on my conclusions]:
- disturbance of earth is key and soil benefit trumps that of plants and animals
- grazing should be planned, and that intelligently [what Savory calls "holistically" (keeping recuperation of plants, local demands and other variables in mind)]
- herd behavior is key to disturbance of earth
- herd density is key to both disturbance and herd behavior
- benefit to the farmer (i.e. applying the above principles) is essential, for if the farmer fails, the corporation comes in [like a friggin' virus laying in wait]


From a survival / prep point of view i feel i should reiterate at this point: arid and semi-arid regions / locations are where both hungry masses and government won't come calling. Therefore, being able to utilize their potential is vital to survival in a world in which one might be beset by others.
So-called common knowledge and conventional / corporative practices have warped popular thought, convincing us that the deserts of the world are some kind of act of God; they are not; they are man-made, brought about by man's ignorance and hubris.
Billions of people around the world believe their region isn't good enough for farming. They are clearly wrong. Modern masters like Joel Salatin, Geoff Lawton, Allan Savory and others have proven them wrong. But there is good in that for preppers, for where the ignorant masses dare not tread is where we might be safe.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 04:42:05 PM by Socrates »
survival database
location, civilisation reboot, PERMACULTURE, postcataclysmic soil, Growing Soil 1.01

 

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