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Author Topic: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??  (Read 406 times)

MadMax

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"To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« on: October 13, 2018, 12:48:25 PM »
A Venezuelan Collapse Survivor Warns You to be Mobile: “You May Have to Leave It All Behind”

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/a-venezuelan-collapse-survivor-warns-you-to-be-mobile-you-may-have-to-leave-it-all-behind_10112018

I have mentioned in several opportunities what I could have done better, given the chance. Here some of my afterthoughts about it. As good as your plan may be, you may have to leave it all behind. You must plan to be mobile.

Some of these preparedness plans may not work as well as we would expect. No matter how wonderful your retreat is, there may come a time when you have to leave. And you must plan for that, too.

A walled retreat may not work in the long-term

Building a large fortress could seem a very attractive idea. Stocking and piling food and other goodies is, for sure, an even better idea. But, unless the kinds of event you are preparing for be something like a zombie attack, or a deadly, fast, pandemic…it is not going to work very good. Because you will find knocking at your door desperate people that, after the first weeks, will be desperate enough for trying whatever they could figure out to take over the compound.

And I say this because I saw it happen. I made one acquaintance, a nice fellow, judo practitioner, combat shooter (back in 2006-07 you could still buy a gun and ammunition for home defense and sport shooting), with a nice, large, wonderful cattle hacienda (larger than a farm indeed, about 1200 acres, maybe more). He was pro-guns, had studied in the States, and generally, his mindset was not that of the average Venezuelan regarding self-sufficiency. His house there was surrounded by a tall wall. Bullet holes all over the upper edge indicated how many times he had to shoot to warn trespassers.

Food in a large pantry and a small wind/solar arrangement to power some HAM / UHF equipment for the security team of the hacienda was as well in place. And of course, a small pool, and a large water tank with over 25.000 liters. There is a lot of rain there, so this was not exactly a concern. However, the huge drought in 2008 taught us a lot of lessons about this.

The judoka farmer, had this little problem: his cattle losses were so high (and this was way before Uncle Nicolas) that even before the collapse, he had to sell his land at a loss, his wonderful big house in the suburbia, leaving just a small flat in the city.

I know, he could just have shot the guys. But obviously, those who think like this have not the slightest idea about how things are there. Shooting someone, even if this person is obviously trespassing and with intentions to do harm, is seen as plain murder…even if you are defending your own life. The reasons? Easy. Authorities are so…deviated, so to speak, that unless you have enough financial means to pay some… “contributions”, the shooter won’t leave prison. Ever. The only shooters I have seen that are still in prison because of the right reasons are a couple of drug addicts (father and son) who shot dead a family father in the middle of a drunk fight for a parking space in front of a liquor store. Cold blood, in front of his small kids. They locked them up and threw the key. One of my friends was there.

He is now in some place in the States (or Italy, I truly don’t know), I lost his track, but I wish him the best. He is a nice, kind fellow.

He took care of his compound for many years, just to get ahead of many of us, and regardless, he had to migrate (or bugout?) before things got worse. He had to leave it all behind.

This is why I suggest an RV

Why do I suggest to prepare an RV, camper or some means of off-grid sheltering?

Fitting the RV with low consumption devices is now much easier. Good LEDs are available, warm and cozy, and investing in those wonderful Nickel Iron batteries seems to be a great deal to me. These are heavy, expensive, but they are low maintenance and will last for a lifetime. The consumables needed for keeping the batteries running, if I remember well, have a long life shelf under proper storage conditions, and that can be found in a shack built in the plot itself. This is something that, provided that you need more specific information I could write a much more technical article, so just ask for it, please.

There are a lot of interesting apparatuses for heating in the winter (I know now how harsh winter must feel)

Another interesting addition, especially for those who can weld, is a small, portable, welding machine and an air compressor. These are widely used by off-roaders when need to weld some chassis or some other part, and they don’t draw too much power. Air compressor will allow you to use a good variety of power tools, and they are much safer to use under the rain than electric tools. Those of us who have been in the open country to cut a fallen tree under the rain with a machete know what we talk about.

Solar panels? I will take two of those big ones, please. Hey, wait, make it three. Of course, a low tech filtering design for rainwater collection is a need. And I would add a high quality, compact, high capacity water filtering system. No pressure. Gravity will be enough. You can’t afford the risk of a leakage in the middle of nowhere, and losing your drinking water.

Being mobile would have made things easier.

This said, if we could have afforded the RV I had my eye on, we could have sold the city house, and bought some plot in a much larger city, as an investment for the future. Confiscation of an empty plot is much harder: people are lazy and wants an already built house. (wink). And this is the main reason for the need of an RV as the main home. It is much more practical and will provide shelter while building a stone and masonry main house.

By parking in my folks plot, our cats would have been able to feed themselves, too (a part of whatever money I can get around here is for them, twice monthly). Our expenses would have been much less, as well. The best part is that we could have been together, as a family. My friends could have known our children, and their small lads and ours could have been best friends in those years, so important for the good memories that will be a necessity later in life.

Put aside some money

Another necessity, now that we mention that, is going to be some financial resources, enough for renting a plot, perhaps even buying it later. With our main home sold, enough money in the bank would have been available, just in case. It would have been much less hard with that, and those 8 months we were separated as a family would not exist as a sad memory.

A good home, in our instance, is now a large investment standing still, unproductive and under the jeopardy of seizure. We are not living in it, and it is consuming money. We can’t sell it. This is what happens in a collapse.

A much wiser investment would have been the RV, a good condition one. With one-third of the money we could have arrived safely to our destiny, and so we would have some reserves, for some things like a dentist for the kid, some medicines I need, and other stuff.

This would have made migrating easier, too.

By traveling in an RV, we could have convinced to some local authorities that we are not the negative kind of migrants, but instead, the kind of those who are not dangerous, nor a burden or a heavy load to anyone. With it, you could rent a plot, buy a truckload of blocks, build (or contract some to do so) a good, tall wall, make a steel gate installed, and you will be set in a blink. A place to cook, shower, and rest, all of it within the reach of a poor migrant’s pocket.

After that, you will have time to look for a decent way to make some cash. As I write this, renting prices are increasing in this part of the city, because of the huge amount of new migrants arriving. Flat owners deny the properties to some people that get 6 persons in an apartment designed for 2 or 3 at the most (although some of them are smart, and get coordinated with people who works at night shifts). I have heard about 10 persons living in a 2 bedroom apartment.

I am thinking seriously in exchanging my busted SUV for an RV in Venezuela, and coming back, but it seems there is not even one able to resist such travel. Perhaps I could sell it in cash and make it sent here.  If we can make that deal and buy an RV here, I will let you know. It would be a great advance on our lifestyle, indeed. I would need the migration paperwork for driving, but it would not be too much of a problem. I would love to find some of the truck camper varieties, the kind you can detach off the truck platform and install on their own legs, and use the truck. Fitting the truck with an air suspension to increase lift, the truck would be a normal ride in the city and an off-road setup just in case. It would have been useful for me a couple of times in Venezuela, in some roadblocks generated by accidents or other causes.

Max.
"Ignorance is Bliss" - (Agent Smith the first Matrix Movie)

MadMax

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 03:15:19 PM »
Survivalist shares tips for prepping to bug out – Part 1

bugout.news/2018-10-03-survivalist-shares-tips-for-prepping-to-bug-out-part-1.html

Anyone that’s serious about prepping knows that preparing to bug out is about a lot more than simply filling a bag with supplies and establishing an off-the-grid location to escape to. If that were the case, then preppers could be done getting ready for a national or global catastrophe in a single afternoon – go to a gun store, go to an army surplus store, come home, pinpoint a location on a map, and you’re good to go. No, prepping is a lot more in-depth than that, which is why millions of Americans have spent years, and even decades, getting ready for the day that society comes crumbling down like a house of cards.

A contributor for the website SurvivalBlog.com who goes by the clever name of “Mr. E” published back-to-back articles on how to go about planning, training and exercising for bugging out. These three areas of focus aren’t just skills that some random prepper wrote about in a book or for a website; they are true emergency management principles that are still being used by public and private institutions from one end of the country to the other. The reason why this three-step emergency awareness protocol is so beneficial is because it allows you and your group to prepare for a wide variety of situations, and ensures that everyone has an understanding of what his or her role is during your bug out.

When making plans for your bug out supplies and equipment, Mr. E explains that it is important to consider a number of different questions: Does each and every member of your group have access to food, water, clothing, medical supplies and defensive equipment? Are there enough supplies to sustain each member of your group until you reach your off-the-grid location? Are your vehicles filled with enough fuel to reach your off-the-grid location?

Other things that preppers must consider include the condition of the battery inside of your vehicle, how fast they will be able to gather their supplies, the possibility of placing caches of supplies along the route to your bug out location, and what to do if you run into peaceful individuals who are in need of supplies while you are on your way to your bug out location.

Mr. E also makes it abundantly clear that having the supplies necessary for communicating over long distances is a vital part of the planning process. Since cell phones won’t be very reliable in the event of a national emergency, Mr. E advises that preppers get their hands on either a ham radio, a simple two-way handheld radio, or a CB radio, all of which are inexpensive and very easy to use. In addition to communication devices, preppers should also plan to equip themselves with emergency blankets, extra batteries, duct tape, and copper wire for building simple electronics.

Regarding the actual bug out location and the route you will take to get there, Mr. E emphasizes the fact that this information should be understood by everyone in your group. “Much like communications, your egress plan should have multiple options in case one way is blocked or compromised,” Mr. E writes. “Consider which routes will be least traveled. Staying away from the other travelers is usually the safer bet when resources are scarce.” (Related: Here’s why prepping is the best way to ensure you have the supplies you need before the next disaster.)

Mr E. went on to explain that it’s important to consider the time that it takes for you to reach your bug out destination by foot, by vehicle, and by other methods of transportation. He also advises preppers to map out “your resources caches, water availability, and potential shelter locations along the intended routes” so that you can choose the best path depending on the situation you find yourself in.

Max.
"Ignorance is Bliss" - (Agent Smith the first Matrix Movie)

R.R. Book

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 03:57:25 PM »
Quote
Other things that preppers must consider include the condition of the battery inside of your vehicle

This is one item that I pay close attention to at this time every year, seeing to it that each (used) car in this household gets a new high cold-cranking amp battery on a rotating schedule of once each three years, as we park our cars outdoors (the garage has become the root cellar  :) ).

Also inspection of the cables and terminals.

We don't even bother with the load test, but do receive a prorated credit for any battery that still has life in it.  Don't want anyone caught out in the countryside with a dead battery in winter around here...especially as it gets dark around 4:30 in the afternoon here in December.

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2018, 07:52:35 PM »
Quote
Other things that preppers must consider include the condition of the battery inside of your vehicle

This is one item that I pay close attention to at this time every year, seeing to it that each (used) car in this household gets a new high cold-cranking amp battery on a rotating schedule of once each three years, as we park our cars outdoors (the garage has become the root cellar  :) ).

Also inspection of the cables and terminals.

We don't even bother with the load test, but do receive a prorated credit for any battery that still has life in it.  Don't want anyone caught out in the countryside with a dead battery in winter around here...especially as it gets dark around 4:30 in the afternoon here in December.

Really good things to consider and take care of...

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2018, 08:17:00 PM »
Yowbarb Note: I do not claim to be an expert on exact legal way to transport gasoline. This is what I found. If you have more info to add, please do... you can clarify, show where to purchase and share your knowledge on this.
...
https://simplifiedsafety.com/blog/does-your-gas-can-meet-osha-requirements/

A safety can is (29CFR1926.155(1) an approved, closed container, of not more than 5 gallons capacity, having a flash arresting screen, spring closing lid and spout cover and so designed that it will safely relieve internal pressure when subjected to fire exposure.

Approval is given by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, for example, Underwriters' Laboratory, Inc.

Gas cans can only display DOT approval markings when they meet stringent Department of Transportation requirements.  Here is where it gets confusing, inexpensive plastic gas cans may meet EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) requirements, but they do NOT meet DOT rules. Some gas cans may say they meet CARB spill-proof regulations in certain states or AQMD (Air Quality Management
District) rules.  Again, this doesn't help when trying to comply with OSHA.  None of these other regulatory agencies are the same as DOT.  They are not interchangeable.

If your head isn't already spinning, one last point.  If you are looking for a UL "approval", you will see the following words on the product, UL Listed.  If your can has a UL Classified marking, this is not the same as UL Listed (approved).

Now that you know the correct can to use, shown below are safety rules to follow when using gas cans.  This information can be used for this week's tailgate safety meeting.

Safety Tips for Gas Cans
Portable Gas Cans

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 08:18:45 PM »
Yowbarb Note: This part of the page discusses problems that happen with metal gas cans of gas being hauled on a plastic surface. I suggest boards on top of the plastic. Can't think of any other solutionm, for the time being. ideas, anyone.
...
https://simplifiedsafety.com/blog/does-your-gas-can-meet-osha-requirements/

Several vehicle fires have occurred as a result of filling metal portable gasoline cans while placed on the back of pickup trucks with plastic bed liners. The insulating effect of the plastic surface prevents the static charge generated by the gasoline flowing into the gas can from grounding. As static charge builds, it can create a static spark between the gas can and the fuel nozzle. When the spark occurs in the flammable range in the gasoline vapor space near the open mouth of the gas can, a fire can occur.  Some tips:

Do not fill any container while it is inside a vehicle, a vehicles trunk, pickup bed, or on any surface other than the ground.
Use only an approved container with a cap that fits tightly.
Remove the approved container from the vehicle and place it on the ground.  Keep container a safe distance away from the vehicle, other customers, and traffic.
Keep the nozzle in contact with the can during filling.
Fill container about 95% full to allow for expansion.
If gasoline spills on the container, make sure it is evaporated before putting it in your vehicle.
Equipment Refueling
Shut off motor on equipment and give motor rime to cool off before refueling.
Dont refuel near an open flame or near a sparking situation.
Keep a fire extinguisher nearby.
Dont spill the fuel.
Dont overfill the fuel tank.  On hot days, allow for expansion.
Stay safe.  Only use approved gas cans.

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 08:21:27 PM »
I totally agree with the concept of being able to be mobile. One thing to remember, mobility = lots and lots and lots of gasoline.
Anyone have something to contribute on safely hauling gasoline around in the back of the vehicle?
I suppose it could be packed on top in a luggage carrier too, I'd suggest some kind of fireproofing barrier on top... Keep in mind the possibility of windborne fiery particles, forest fires, industrial fires, fireballs...

Oh yeah caches of gas, buried along some routes is one possible thing to do...
In this video below the truck has a diamondback cover in which fuel can be stored, and he talks about a good type of gas can.  This type of truck could be part of a group convoy and carry most of the the gas...- Yowbarb


Bug Out Fuel: Scepter Military Fuel Can for Vehicles    10:15

https://youtu.be/VfxClLCXTog   

Canadian Prepper
Published on Oct 31, 2016

R.R. Book

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 05:04:21 AM »
Barb, thanks for the info and warning - I was unaware of most of these facts.  Forwarded your post on to hubby at work this morning.  :)

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 10:13:52 AM »
Barb, thanks for the info and warning - I was unaware of most of these facts.  Forwarded your post on to hubby at work this morning.  :)

R.R.  ;)  I am not totally sure which cans are the best. The Canadian prepper video did a good job of selling the tough plastic ones... and that safety data did say metal cans in a vehicle with plastic liner could cause sparks and a flammable situation. So at this point, I'm sold on the idea of the sturdy plastic ones...
Bear in mind, I'm learning and not an expert...
Those safety specs a few posts back are pretty good I think...
i did really like that section of that truck in the video which could hold gas cans and be closed, a separate gas hauler for a caravan, i like that idea.
- Barb Townsend

ilinda

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 07:38:46 PM »
Barb, thanks for the info and warning - I was unaware of most of these facts.  Forwarded your post on to hubby at work this morning.  :)

R.R.  ;)  I am not totally sure which cans are the best. The Canadian prepper video did a good job of selling the tough plastic ones... and that safety data did say metal cans in a vehicle with plastic liner could cause sparks and a flammable situation. So at this point, I'm sold on the idea of the sturdy plastic ones...
Bear in mind, I'm learning and not an expert...
Those safety specs a few posts back are pretty good I think...
i did really like that section of that truck in the video which could hold gas cans and be closed, a separate gas hauler for a caravan, i like that idea.
- Barb Townsend

We've used the heavy-duty red plastic gas cans ever since we learned of that potential for explosion/fires when filling cans in the back of a pickup.  They have always worked fine.

One way to carry gasoline, besides just in the bed of a pickup truck, could be inside one of those cargo carriers, meant to fit neatly in the bed of the truck.  I know they themselves could be a target for fireball fallout or other projectiles, but at least it's one more barrier between the gas cans the the "outside world".

Note from Yowbarb: ilinda ooops! I mean to quote you and add a comment but instead did an edit in your post, so I took that out. :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 04:23:59 PM by Yowbarb »

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2018, 04:24:08 PM »
ilinda, I agree with that. The truck cargo is one more barrier to fire and fireproofing material could be placed under and over the area, too.
The Canadian Prepper video I posted shows him using the truck storage area to haul several gas cans (all heavy duty plastic not metal.)
Makes sense to me. Also makes sense to have one vehicle in a carvan which carries most of the gasoline.

Yowbarb

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 07:59:32 PM »
Don't be shy all you expert survivalists- preppers...
We need to know for sure how to safely lug gasoline all over the place!!

ilinda

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Re: "To Bug Out or not Bug Out" Which is Better??
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2018, 06:54:37 PM »
One thing I'll add, from the perspective of a non-expert in these things, is that it might be a good idea, especially if part of a caravan, that the gasoline should be camouflaged as something totally different.  After all, that is what many people would be looking for. 

Might be a good idea to have one obvious can of gasoline, separate from the stash in a different vehicle.

 

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