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Author Topic: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies  (Read 687 times)

MadMax

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Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« on: February 04, 2019, 04:24:04 PM »
Socrates suggest the topic for this thread:

Quote
Based on that, i'd say a good cave constitutes safety [obviously stocked with enough food so you don't resort to cannibalism, also commonly mentioned in ancient accounts, as well as seeds, tools, good animals, etc. You get my drift].

I just created a “place holder” please feel free to contribute anything related here ..

Max.
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Jimfarmer

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 09:29:56 PM »
I want my cave to have a strong, reinforced downward-sloping entrance and some flowing water inside.  No loose rocks or soil above the entrance, which is some distance above the valley floor.

ilinda

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 05:51:41 AM »
Those would be helpful features, plus a hidden entrance might be nice!

MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 03:00:48 PM »
Quote
I want my cave to have a strong, reinforced downward-sloping entrance and some flowing water inside.  No loose rocks or soil above the entrance, which is some distance above the valley floor.

Some good suggestions Jim, thanks for sharing ..

A couple good cave location resources:

List of caves in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves_in_the_United_States

USA DEEPEST CAVES   Compiled by: Bob Gulden - Jan.07, 2019

http://www.caverbob.com/usadeep.htm


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MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 03:06:01 PM »
I think that they have the right idea here ..

'Preppers' Are Preparing for Doomsday in This Kansas Salt Mine

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ezv3ka/hollywood-and-preppers-are-preparing-for-doomsday-in-this-kansas-salt-mine

A trip inside a vault buried 650 feet under the middle of the country,

If we're ever forced underground thanks to a nuclear winter, you could do worse than the salt mines of central Kansas.

Living 650 feet beneath a bunch of wheat fields, parking lots, and nothingness, you'd have plenty to do: It's here where every major Hollywood studio, from Disney to 20th Century Fox to Warner Brothers, has decided to store copies of nearly every single movie they've ever created. You'll find original copies of everything from A Goofy Movie to the Harry Potter series to Charlie Chaplin's old films. In fact, the cavernous, hollowed-out mines operated by a company called Underground Vaults and Storage actually is the doomsday plan for a handful of anonymous, paranoid preppers.

"I can't mention their names, but, as part of their agreement with us, there are probably a half dozen people who have apartments down there," Lee Spence, the company's president, told me when I visited earlier this month. "They have their own supplies, it is their backup plan in the case of a nuclear attack or something."

Hutchinson, Kansas, or, more specifically, the vast expanses of space underneath Hutchinson, has long been considered one of the safest places in the country. A massive prehistoric body of water called the Western Interior Sea dried up millions of years ago, leaving thousands of feet worth of rock salt behind, which has been exploited since the early 1900s by dozens of different salt companies, including Morton and the Hutchinson Salt Company.


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R.R. Book

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 03:46:35 PM »
The list of caves is a good resource.

However, if one is hoping to secure a safe location in the PA caves listed ahead of a cataclysmic event:

They are privately owned major tourist attractions with an entry fee or donation, tour guide accompaniment and a limited amount of time each day before the caves close to visitors and bus loads of school children...

And the tour guides are very anal about everyone being in his or her assigned place. 
Disappearing from the tour group to wander deep into the caves would likely be cause for a rescue crew by sunset, as well as making headlines both on the web and in the papers...

So probably little likelihood of stashing survival supplies in there, unless one knows the caves better than the owners do.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 06:19:49 AM by R.R. Book »

MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 04:05:56 PM »
Good new video from Ben ..Great set of links below the video!

Earth Catastrophe Cycle | Dig In!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB_LTCwNSH8

Episode 16 | Dig In ... or don't ... you might survive either way!

Resources Used [Thanks to John McGovern]
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Socrates

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THE PENULTIMATE SURVIVAL CONSIDERATION...
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 03:59:44 PM »
Interesting video detailing many large cave systems 12,000 years on (or older) focusing on Europe and the Mediterranean) , which matches up quite closley when the Sun went Nova 12,000 years ago ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOHP92rX220

12,000 Year Old Underground Tunnels Discovered
Sorry, no offense, but this not interesting because it's about tunnels and caves that came after the previous cataclysm. The only interesting tunnels/caves are those that withstood it.
These exist. There are caves and cave systems that have been around millions of years.
Forget all the others. They cannot be trusted.


Cu= Copper. Why "Cu"? Because it stems from the name for the island of Cyprus where most copper millennia ago was found, extracted and distributed. Enough to start off the Bronze Age [bronze being 90% copper, 10% tin]. Why should you care? (And why do i mention it?)
It's a matter of common sense and big picture considerations; millennia ago people weren't technologically sophisticated enough to acquire copper out of copper compounds as we do today. And they didn't need to, for copper used to be common as native copper.
What's native copper and why is it relevant?

Native copper is found atop copper deposits. It's easily recognized, mined and applied. It would not last long...
I'm saying there is no way[!] the deposits of native copper on Cyprus millennia ago survived mankind hundreds of thousands of years [i.e. hundreds of times longer]. No way. Some group of humans or other would've depleted Cyprus of it's treasures long ago ...if they'd been there.
Where am i going with this?
[I know i'm getting there slowly, but i believe this is a fundamental argument, so if you'll credit me with just a few more minutes of your time...]

I'm arguing that the copper deposits on Cyprus must've been 'new'. Mainstream geologists, school teachers and the so-called scientific community would have us all believe that geological developments were evolutionary, not dramatic.

In this book it is (quite scholarly and extensively) argued [if not outright proven] that the Alps 'popped up' some 12 to 13,000 years ago. Before then they were 400 meter high hills whereas they are now 4000 meter [12,000 ft?] mountains. The book suggests this happened in a very short period of time.
These are not small geological changes we're talking about, i.e. the exact opposite of the evolutionary model we were all spoonfed as children.
So if the Alps could pop up seemingly out of nowhere, obviously the same could apply to Cyprus, which btw is a geological hotspot.

Cyprus/copper changed Europe. The Bronze Age was no little matter.
Did you know that copper weapons were superior to iron ones [just that iron ones were cheaper and easier to mend]? Did you know that Europe traded brass for gold because the Indians in South America thought it was more beautiful?
Anyway, again, what's my point?

My point is that we should not underestimate the kind of geological upheavals that are coming our way. And this is directly related to the matter of caves.
If entire regions like the Alps can be pushed up miles and islands like Cyprus can bring up subterranean copper deposits hitherto unknown, then what kind of cave can withstand that kind of geological drama?
Simple: caves that have clearly withstood the test of time: caves that are millions of years old.
And, again simple, these are caves with stalagmites and stalactites in them. Why? Because these take that long to grow.
Elementary, dear Watson


One can dream about caves but in the end there are only a limited number of them that are interesting in this regard. These are the ones that should be sought out.
Now, there have been a number of valid considerations posed in this thread that apply. And, quite frankly, they would seem to demand considerable if not drastic action, like:
caves are usually privately owned, exploited and policed
I have 2 solutions to this problem:
- get a job working at the cave [gaining access]
- stash supplies [including livestock] near the cave [i.e. worked into bedrock]
The first gives one access that would allow one to stock up inside, the second gives one the option to bring in resources right before TSHTF, assuming that imminent global destruction is apparent.

Caves with "flowing water" sound nice but often mean periodic floods, like with the Morrocan Win Timdouine. In other words, danger of drowning.
On the other hand, in the case of Win Timdouine, we're talking many miles of cave, caves that have clearly stood the test of time; for one, one pic [of  the 5 on this website] shows stalagmites; two, researchers have actually found species that have been able to evolve at this particular site [i.e. exclusively, unique in nature]. This of course implies that life goes on in this (very long) cave.
Good thing about Win Timdouine: you won't be finding any anal policing of your activities here.

Win Timdouine [looking back at it, i'm really going to have to revisit considering it as an option...] is a prime example of what one might achieve if one has superior light tech and was able to carry on deeper into the cave than others. I mean, if one went a few thousand feet farther than most ever go [excepting expeditions that happen maybe once a decade], one might stash all kinds of stuff there.


The PENULTIMATE penultimate survival consideration...
In Bryan Sykes' The Seven Daughters of Eve it's explained that all of mankind's surviving genetic lines stem from 33 'mothers' in our history; the 7 in the title applies to 95% of people in Europe today.
Mitochondrian DNA research appears to prove that our species doesn't go back any further than about 250,000 years ago [i.e. in line with Anunnaki ideas and contrary to mainstream evolutionary ones] and that there must've been one point in our past when there were only 33 women alive. That's 5 for every continent, on average...
This scholarly purely scientific research [i.e. untainted by political or cultural preferences or agendas] shows us how quaint the 'limited cataclysm' approach to prepping is.
I mean, if it were easy to survive what's likely/potentially coming (again), more than 33 women worldwide would have. This means:
- any simple cave won't do
- bunkers won't do [What? Our ancestors didn't build bunkers?]
- anything above bedrock won't do
Yeah, and then let's not forget location and climate; i mean, don't expect to crawl out of your cave and out into Siberia and expect to survive...


Mountain ranges come and go; but some hang around a long time.
Caves come and go; but some hang around a long time.


One final argument: in Paul LaViolette's Earth Under Fire a strong argument is made that what we were all lead to believe about coal deposits is bs. LaViolette argues that organic matter washed away in monumental floods will likely have been deposited in certain locations and have started to degrade there, creating coal, i.e. contrary to the idea that these deposits are some coincidental product of millions of years of biomass accumulation.
It's just another reason to believe that whatever happened to create the Alps and Cyprus will also likely move around anything that is not bedrock. So, yeah, your cave entrance could get covered over by tons of debris.
Hey, take another look at Win Timdouine; that cave exit is situated on a near vertical wall of rock; now that isn't going to get covered up.
These are the kind of considerations i think are appropriate when looking at caves. In other words, look for:

- warm climates
- stalactites/stalagmites [indicating both age and water]
- cave systems, i.e. that have loads of air and water in them

Finally, let's not forget the Fremen adage: Any man who takes refuge in a cave with one exit deserves his fate...
[A Fremen response to the deaths of Duke Leto's soldiers seeking refuge in caves but getting buried alive by Harkonnen forces.]
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:42:02 AM by Socrates »
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MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2019, 04:24:10 PM »
Wow Socrates, thanks for all the good "info" thanks for posting!!
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MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2019, 04:30:14 PM »
Quote
Finally, let's not forget the Fremen adage: Any man who takes refuge in a cave with one exit deserves his fate...
[A Fremen response to the deaths of Duke Leto's soldiers seeking refuge in caves but getting buried alive by Harkonnen forces.]

As I recall the Guild Pilots (space navigators) were addicted to the “spice “ that is what allowed the Freemen to triumph in Dune, when they threatened (successfully) to destroy the spice production (which they controlled) and thus they won a great victory against overwhelming odds (good lesson for us today) ..
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MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 03:34:37 PM »
GREAT new video from Ben Davidson on preparing for what is to come:

Earth Catastrophe Cycle | System Schoch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_QQpntCulU

Quite an interesting part of an interview with D. Schouch were he shows (using the area around the Sphinx) conclusively what caused the global catastrophe 12,000 years ago..
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ilinda

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 05:24:38 PM »
If I heard it correctly, he said that a magnetic pole reversal would usher in an ice age.  Did I heard correctly?

MadMax

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 03:30:33 PM »
Quote
If I heard it correctly, he said that a magnetic pole reversal would usher in an ice age.  Did I heard correctly?

Yes the sequence is

1. (Solar Micro-Nova/Solar Flash) ----> 2.(Pole_Shift)------> 3.(Ice Age)

The massive amount of scientific evidence points to it happening every ~12,000 years (like clockwork)..

"Ignorance is Bliss" - (Agent Smith the first Matrix Movie)

ilinda

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Re: Underground / Cave Survival Strategies
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 07:12:07 PM »
Quote
If I heard it correctly, he said that a magnetic pole reversal would usher in an ice age.  Did I heard correctly?

Yes the sequence is

1. (Solar Micro-Nova/Solar Flash) ----> 2.(Pole_Shift)------> 3.(Ice Age)

The massive amount of scientific evidence points to it happening every ~12,000 years (like clockwork)..
Does anyone think the ~12,000 years could represent half of the twenty-some thousand years of the cycle of precession which is ~26,000 years? 

Socrates

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Re: 10.5 - 13,000 years
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 10:37:42 PM »
In the first Red Ice Radio interview with Robert Felix, he says that the length of the cycle depends on point of view, that whether one is seeing things from an Earth-bound or galactic point of view makes a considerable difference in length.
Though precession is ~26,000 and 13,000 should be half of that, things might not be as simple as '1 + 1 = 2' in this regard.
So, yeah, maybe it's all just half, in the end, no matter that the numbers don't appear to add up at first glance. And then the rate of precession itself seems to be subject to change over time, adding even more variables to the math.
In the end maybe no one knows. Hell, maybe even the Anunnaki don't know exactly.

Also, The Milky Way actually consists of 2 galaxies that collided a long time ago, with solar systems and planes still effecting each other [Earth actually originally not belonging to The Milky Way]. Cycles within cycles within cycles...
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