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Surviving the Planet X Tribulation

Author Topic: Miscellaneous threats to survival  (Read 120861 times)

Yowbarb

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Re: feral dogs
« Reply #405 on: December 21, 2019, 07:34:10 AM »
in the event of a cataclysm they will be running amok hurting people on top of all the other problems.
Depends on the severity of the cataclysm, i'm guessing:
- limited cataclysm: hungry people will be EATING (their) dogs and hunting down strays
- more severe cataclysm: feral dogs will prefer to eat all the corpses out there, rather than confront people able to defend themselves; one should be wary but i think in most cases, the situation shouldn't get too bad
- (closer to) stone age inducing event: a. if a few dogs survive, they will pose a serious threat after they've hunted down all prey and corpses are no longer edible. However, there shouldn't be too many of them; on the other hand, they will of course start breeding as soon as bitches come in season [every 6 months, so not all bitches right away]. This is a good time to have your own dogs and ferals will find easier prey; b., worst case scenario, if there are any ferals at all, the chance you run into them is small; nuclear winter will also dwindle their numbers. In fact, if you'd like your decendants to enjoy having dogs, you'd better save at least two [or one pregnant bitch] yourself, for once that DNA's gone, it'll be millennia before it comes back, if ever.

Ill-mannered dogs are like barbarians: they're a problem in barbaric societies like our own. I'm more worried about the damage cats do...  ;D

Socrates, I totally agree we definitely need to have some unfixed dogs and cats, to try to help carry on their genetic survival. Dogs and cats are precious to me, too. I had posted about that, but it's been a long time...
Some breeds of dog can go extinct for all I care...

Good points you made, on the possible behavior of stray and feral dogs...
also, yes, of course, some people
will hunt stray dogs for food. I hadn't thought of that much...
It's when they are running loose, the more aggressive ones that people need to be cautious, not everyone will be armed with guns, especially in urban areas. many will not have guns to defend themselves, let alone hunt for stray dogs....
So I urge people to have some kind of weapons at hand, perhaps several types of weapons, in their homes, vehicles and on their person. 
My Dad used to always have a big walking stick, long before he actually needed a walking stick, and it is a good idea. If a person has pepper spray and tazer, great.
My recent posts here have been grim, just a reminder for people to be careful of themselves, now and in the times to come.
Well, we will try to think of more uplifting and less depressing things now...?  ;D
Happy Holidays to ya!

Barb T.

ilinda

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Re: feral dogs
« Reply #406 on: December 21, 2019, 08:56:09 AM »
in the event of a cataclysm they will be running amok hurting people on top of all the other problems.
Depends on the severity of the cataclysm, i'm guessing:
- limited cataclysm: hungry people will be EATING (their) dogs and hunting down strays
- more severe cataclysm: feral dogs will prefer to eat all the corpses out there, rather than confront people able to defend themselves; one should be wary but i think in most cases, the situation shouldn't get too bad
- (closer to) stone age inducing event: a. if a few dogs survive, they will pose a serious threat after they've hunted down all prey and corpses are no longer edible. However, there shouldn't be too many of them; on the other hand, they will of course start breeding as soon as bitches come in season [every 6 months, so not all bitches right away]. This is a good time to have your own dogs and ferals will find easier prey; b., worst case scenario, if there are any ferals at all, the chance you run into them is small; nuclear winter will also dwindle their numbers. In fact, if you'd like your decendants to enjoy having dogs, you'd better save at least two [or one pregnant bitch] yourself, for once that DNA's gone, it'll be millennia before it comes back, if ever.

Ill-mannered dogs are like barbarians: they're a problem in barbaric societies like our own. I'm more worried about the damage cats do...  ;D
If a situation arose as described above, whatever dogs were left would most likely interbreed with coyotes and/or wolves, depending on the population densities of each.  In the past couple of years I read about an area of Africa in which "African Hunting Dogs" (AKA African Wild Dogs) (  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITFbS0tKybA  ) have interbred with a specific breed of domestic dog, a variety whose name I can't recall.  But just now a search turned up links that claim that such a cross of African Wild Dog with domestic dog has never occurred.  (I wouldn't bet on it.)

In the domestic dog mating with coyote, jackal, or wolf, due to shortage or absence of domestic dogs, the result would probably be a surprise and unpredictable.  For example, some dog-wolf hybrids yield offspring that fear humans (wolf trait) yet are less intelligent and less strong (dog traits).  On the other hand, offspring could also be gushy or even vicious to humans (dog traits) but also have wolf traits such as higher intelligence.  It would be a mixed bag, and one factor incluencing it all would be the traits of the parents on whom the pups imprint.

At any rate, isolated dogs won't lack for mating opportunities in the above scenarios, assuming there would be canids available sharing the same number and structure of chromosomes.

As for domestic cats, the only ones which would survive would be those already feral, or the rare domestic individual who is capable of living in the wild (thinking of the Maine Coon Cat).  But most of the pampered "sofa cats" would be prey to any or all canids, and even some two-legged individuals.


Yowbarb

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #407 on: December 21, 2019, 09:36:58 PM »
ilinda, you brought up some interesting things...I hadn't though so much about crossbreeding but yes that would happen a lot.

RE Coyote dogs: When I was in southern CA, both my brother and my husband told me they were followed by coyotes.
My husband was alone on horseback and he said he was surprised to see coyotes following him, then he realized they were coyote dogs. He said they can be dangerous, because coyote dogs don't seem to be afraid of people.

My bro was on foot alone, was afraid to be followed by a pack of coyotes, but I bet those were coyote dogs too. They just skulked along quietly behind him, keeping some distance. Never attacked. I feel his spiritual abilities protected him.

Once when I was living in Topanga Canyon I was walking with my mother and my toddler daughter and my bro and we were walking in an open spot. Suddenly we were charged at by a pack of aggressive dogs (not pits, but looked stray). I didn't have so much as a stick and was carrying my daughter so I let out one of those "karate yells" (purely instinctive, did not take karate.) (Channeled my inner chi.) The dogs hightailed it off the other direction!

My husband brought home a Shepherd cross from the pound and we finally figured out he was part wolf. Amazingly loyal and protective and gentle with my little kids, but incorrigible and hard to handle. Unforgettable, intelligent dog. We lived in the dark woods in a little trailer and felt safe with him (Jaws.) He would hear the yap yap of a pack of coyotes and run off and chase them away. Washington State, our land.

Regarding what you posted about cats... sadly yes, in the event of a catastrophe, many cats would end up food for other predators and canines and some humans.
I didn't know Maine Coon cats survived better in the wild than other cats. I just read that with their large body size, long thick fur and big feet they do pretty well in northern climes.  Read there are a lot of tales about them, like where they are from, were they from Viking ships, etc. Also rumors like "part Bobcat," etc. Not genetically possible but a fun thought. Looks like it is part some other kind of critter. I have a cat looks half fox. :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 09:51:18 PM by Yowbarb »

ilinda

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #408 on: January 15, 2020, 02:18:35 PM »
ilinda, you brought up some interesting things...I hadn't though so much about crossbreeding but yes that would happen a lot.

RE Coyote dogs: When I was in southern CA, both my brother and my husband told me they were followed by coyotes.
My husband was alone on horseback and he said he was surprised to see coyotes following him, then he realized they were coyote dogs. He said they can be dangerous, because coyote dogs don't seem to be afraid of people.

My bro was on foot alone, was afraid to be followed by a pack of coyotes, but I bet those were coyote dogs too. They just skulked along quietly behind him, keeping some distance. Never attacked. I feel his spiritual abilities protected him.

Once when I was living in Topanga Canyon I was walking with my mother and my toddler daughter and my bro and we were walking in an open spot. Suddenly we were charged at by a pack of aggressive dogs (not pits, but looked stray). I didn't have so much as a stick and was carrying my daughter so I let out one of those "karate yells" (purely instinctive, did not take karate.) (Channeled my inner chi.) The dogs hightailed it off the other direction!

My husband brought home a Shepherd cross from the pound and we finally figured out he was part wolf. Amazingly loyal and protective and gentle with my little kids, but incorrigible and hard to handle. Unforgettable, intelligent dog. We lived in the dark woods in a little trailer and felt safe with him (Jaws.) He would hear the yap yap of a pack of coyotes and run off and chase them away. Washington State, our land.

Regarding what you posted about cats... sadly yes, in the event of a catastrophe, many cats would end up food for other predators and canines and some humans.
I didn't know Maine Coon cats survived better in the wild than other cats. I just read that with their large body size, long thick fur and big feet they do pretty well in northern climes.  Read there are a lot of tales about them, like where they are from, were they from Viking ships, etc. Also rumors like "part Bobcat," etc. Not genetically possible but a fun thought. Looks like it is part some other kind of critter. I have a cat looks half fox. :)
Somehow I completely missed your post.  Very interesting about your interactions with the "coyotes", and you're probably right about the crossing.

We didn't know anything about Maine Coon Cats until hubby brought home a stray from parking lot one day, a tiny 4# thing, but exquisitely beautiful with the long fluffy fur.  We had her spayed, then pampered and loved her, but she always preferred to catch rabbits, mice, and rats, over human-provided food.  After having her several years we read that most are quite capable of surviving in the wild and that explained her behavior.  She never weighed more than about 5#, which makes her smaller than the description, but her color and markings and behavior exactly matched what we saw in the book.  She lived to be about 20 yrs. old.

What kind of cat is your "half fox" looking one?

ilinda

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #409 on: January 15, 2020, 02:24:15 PM »

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/10/new-report-details-how-epa-promoting-worst-worst-pesticides

Published on Friday, January 10, 2020
by Common Dreams

New Report Details How EPA Is Promoting 'Worst of the Worst Pesticides'

From 2017-2018, the agency approved 69 new pesticide products containing an ingredient the EPA recognizes as a "known" or "likely" carcinogen.
by
Andrea Germanos, staff writer\
A detail of the cover image for Toxic Hangover, a new report by Center for Biological Diversity. (Image: Center for Biologicial Diversity)
A new review into the pesticide products the U.S. approved in 2017 and 2018 reveals the Environmental Protection Agency is carrying out an industry-friendly, "broken" regulatory process that included green-lighting over 100 products with ingredients widely deemed extremely dangerous.


Entitled Toxic Hangover: How the EPA Is Approving New Products With Dangerous Pesticides It Committed to Phasing Out, the 11-page analysis was released Tuesday by the Center for Biological Diversity.

Nathan Donley, senior scientist at the Center, authored the study. He said the agency was acting "recklessly."
"It's disgusting that rather than do the right thing and phase out the worst of the worst pesticides, the EPA is quietly encouraging their ongoing use," Donley said in a statement.

Among the findings is that the EPA appears all-too willing to give its stamp of approval to pesticides, the study found. To wit: the agency authorized 1,190 end-use pesticide products, which includes herbicides and fungicides. Just 71 such products were not approved in that time frame, meaning about 94 percent were. Where records were available regarding the lack of approval, the reasons were due to deficiencies with the minimum study required or packaging requirements—in other words, the rejections were not based on a product's toxic threat.
"When the EPA is approving 94% of applications that come across its desk, including for some of the planet's most dangerous pesticides," said Donley, "it's obvious the safety review process is completely broken."

The products that were approved give cause for concern.

The bottom line, said the analysis, "the agency is actively working against its own efforts to incentivize the replacement of older, more dangerous pesticides by approving new pesticide products that contain these same dangerous ingredients." As the Center outlined, the EPA approved
   •   15 new products containing neurotoxic carbamates or organophosphates (OPs), including chlorpyrifos.
   •   17 new products containing the endocrine disruptor atrazine.
   •   Six new products containing paraquat, which is so lethal that one spoonful can kill a full-grown adult.
   •   Four new products containing the extremely dangerous airborne fumigants methyl bromide or chloropicrin.
   •   91 new restricted-use pesticides, so dangerous they can only be applied by a professional.
   •   69 new products containing an ingredient the EPA recognizes as a "known" or "likely" carcinogen.

Roughly a third of the products approved over the two-year period have more than one active ingredient, with some containing as many as six. That's cause for concern. From the report:

When the EPA analyzes the harms associated with pesticides, it only takes into account exposure to a single active ingredient at a time. This practice fails to fully capture the risk and potential harms that can be caused by 1 out of every 3 products it's approving. This is in addition to the EPA's refusal to consider the impacts of interactions between active ingredients and other ingredients in formulated products that can result in increased toxicity. This refusal to analyze harm from ingredient mixtures, the same mixtures that are sold on store shelves, calls into question the effectiveness of a risk-assessment process that ignores these highly relevant exposures.

The EPA's approach of weening out dangerous products by waiting on companies to voluntarily cancel them just doesn't cut it in terms of protecting human health and the environment, the study says. Evidence for that is seen, for example, in fact that the use of some "Restricted Use Pesticides"(RUPs)—a classification which includes like atrazine—has either remained constant or gone up.

"Approving new pesticides alone is manifestly not an effective way of replacing older pesticides," the anaysis said.
The bottom line, according to the report, is that the EPA "is actively promoting the use of the worst pesticides and ultimately impeding the transition to safer and more sustainable agriculture in the United States."

The report calls for the EPA to instead stop green-lighting products with the most dangerous ingredients and work decisively to truly phase-out the most dangerous products.
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R.R. Book

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #410 on: January 16, 2020, 04:42:19 AM »
At this rate, the next thing we know they'll be resurrecting and legalizing nasty chemicals from the past such as chlordane, which my father often used around the home until he was diagnosed with metastasized brain cancer...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 05:21:43 AM by R.R. Book »

ilinda

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #411 on: January 16, 2020, 11:21:56 AM »
At this rate, the next thing we know they'll be resurrecting and legalizing nasty chemicals from the past such as chlordane, which my father often used around the home until he was diagnosed with metastasized brain cancer...
OMG, sorry to hear that.  But  you are absoilutely right. 

Yowbarb

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #412 on: January 16, 2020, 05:48:28 PM »
ilinda, you brought up some interesting things...I hadn't though so much about crossbreeding but yes that would happen a lot.

RE Coyote dogs: When I was in southern CA, both my brother and my husband told me they were followed by coyotes.
My husband was alone on horseback and he said he was surprised to see coyotes following him, then he realized they were coyote dogs. He said they can be dangerous, because coyote dogs don't seem to be afraid of people.

My bro was on foot alone, was afraid to be followed by a pack of coyotes, but I bet those were coyote dogs too. They just skulked along quietly behind him, keeping some distance. Never attacked. I feel his spiritual abilities protected him.

Once when I was living in Topanga Canyon I was walking with my mother and my toddler daughter and my bro and we were walking in an open spot. Suddenly we were charged at by a pack of aggressive dogs (not pits, but looked stray). I didn't have so much as a stick and was carrying my daughter so I let out one of those "karate yells" (purely instinctive, did not take karate.) (Channeled my inner chi.) The dogs hightailed it off the other direction!

My husband brought home a Shepherd cross from the pound and we finally figured out he was part wolf. Amazingly loyal and protective and gentle with my little kids, but incorrigible and hard to handle. Unforgettable, intelligent dog. We lived in the dark woods in a little trailer and felt safe with him (Jaws.) He would hear the yap yap of a pack of coyotes and run off and chase them away. Washington State, our land.

Regarding what you posted about cats... sadly yes, in the event of a catastrophe, many cats would end up food for other predators and canines and some humans.
I didn't know Maine Coon cats survived better in the wild than other cats. I just read that with their large body size, long thick fur and big feet they do pretty well in northern climes.  Read there are a lot of tales about them, like where they are from, were they from Viking ships, etc. Also rumors like "part Bobcat," etc. Not genetically possible but a fun thought. Looks like it is part some other kind of critter. I have a cat looks half fox. :)
Somehow I completely missed your post.  Very interesting about your interactions with the "coyotes", and you're probably right about the crossing.

We didn't know anything about Maine Coon Cats until hubby brought home a stray from parking lot one day, a tiny 4# thing, but exquisitely beautiful with the long fluffy fur.  We had her spayed, then pampered and loved her, but she always preferred to catch rabbits, mice, and rats, over human-provided food.  After having her several years we read that most are quite capable of surviving in the wild and that explained her behavior.  She never weighed more than about 5#, which makes her smaller than the description, but her color and markings and behavior exactly matched what we saw in the book.  She lived to be about 20 yrs. old.

What kind of cat is your "half fox" looking one?

She has a really Bombay-looking mother with perky profile of a nose, the black paws underneath. Foxie has those too but she looks so totally different because she is a "Tortie" cat...  Tortoise. Pretty sure Foxie's father is a big tiger cat... lives on the street behind me. We took in the tame mama and her feral kittens. :) Here is Foxie. Running joke her father was a fox.

Yowbarb

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Re: Miscellaneous threats to survival
« Reply #413 on: January 16, 2020, 05:54:38 PM »
At this rate, the next thing we know they'll be resurrecting and legalizing nasty chemicals from the past such as chlordane, which my father often used around the home until he was diagnosed with metastasized brain cancer...

It just keeps getting worse.  Asbestos has been legalized. Just finding this out now!!

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/?fbclid=IwAR0DmUCE5lyFcRYJ9yBU0InkoMqzDWflUyZFidIXT7snbRfakySPh0GTSRk

TOXIC SHOCK
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing
By SYDNEY FRANKLIN • August 6, 2018

 

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