Planet X Town Hall

Socrates & R.R. Book - PERMACULTURE, and methods for gathering food and water => PERMACULTURE => Topic started by: R.R. Book on March 10, 2017, 08:17:11 AM

Title: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 10, 2017, 08:17:11 AM
Hi all,

Socrates, thank you for your wisdom and your passionate stewardship of the earth.  This sub-thread is focused upon homesteads north of the Mason-Dixon line, but Southerners may have lots to contribute as well.

I've spent the past several years intensively studying and experimenting with Eric Toensmeier's book Perrennial Vegetables, and here is what I have learned:

Some edible species which are so invasive that they may be illegal in some Southern locations may be suitable for Northern gardens as dieback perennials.  One invasive that carries the potential to be a reliable northern starvation ration is sunchokes, aka Jerusalem artichokes, which are essentially a sunflower and one of many alternative species of potato or sweet potato.  Even a small remnant of one of these tubers may be used to amass a whole colony of plants in a short period of time.  This plant allows northerners to overwinter something more nutrient-dense than salad greens.

The Nutrition Data website gives the following nutritional profile for a cup of uncooked Sunchoke tubers: 0 fat, 0 cholesterol, 26g carbohydrates including 2g fiber, 3g protein, 10% daily vitamin C and 20% daily iron. If that raw bit of sunchoke were brushed with olive oil or butter and sprinkled with sea salt, the nutritional profile would be still more enhanced.  Some fingerling potatoes are also hardy enough to be left in the ground to overwinter, and Fedco of Maine carries a selection, as well as Roninger's Potato Farm in Colorado.

Toensmeier challenges northerners to re-think the severely limited number of species that we consider to be food.  Sunchokes are in essence a northern type of potato.  Sea kale can be thought of as perpetual northern broccoli.  Lovage satisfies the cooking requirement for both parsley and celery, and is medicinal as well as being a bee magnet.  Chives replace onions in the garden, and there is a kind of patented French sorrel which forms tidy clumps and does not bolt (go to flower and then die back) that is available from Richter's in Canada or Food Forest Farm in Massachusetts which satisfies the need for perpetual greens, in addition to many other spinach-like species that will overwinter in the north.  Skirret is the northern perennial carrot/parsnip, available at Oikos Tree Crops of Michigan.

Any other thoughts?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on March 10, 2017, 05:02:21 PM
Thanks for your thoughtful post, R.R.Book.

Jerusalem Artichokes are as you describe and here's my addendum.  Here in Missouri's Ozarks in southeast MO, I grew them years ago and unfortunately planted them in our well-dug garden, where they did become invasive.  Had I realized that even in our temperate climate their potential I would have planted them outside the garden where they would be better kept in check.

So I dug and dug and finally got rid of them, and now have regretted it ever since.  I want to re-start them as I agree with everyone who taks of their high nutritient qualities.  We found they are great baked with potatoes, onions, etc., as long as they are not broken open.  But slice them open and bake them, and every single thing in the dish tastes like Jerusalem Artichokes!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Socrates on March 11, 2017, 04:38:54 AM
My focus has always been toward semi-arid 'gardening' but Paul Wheaton (http://www.permies.com) is possibly the world's most influential permaculture facilitator and he's up in cooler regions [Montana]. Listening to him i picked up a few extremely interesting facts that i'd never considered before, like
- soil holds onto it's value must longer and easier in colder regions since bacteria and other lifeforms die off or go dormant in winter. In warmer regions, everything gets eaten up much quicker [assuming you can keep it moist].
- though higher [in the Northern hemisphere] latitudes have sunlight that is a bit less intense, the fact that there are more hours in the day levels the playing field. Assuming you can take advantage of the extra hours [and your plants don't end up in the shade at some point or something], there's no reason most plants shouldn't have enough (i.e. compared to more southernly regions).

Hey, if the world goes into some sort of nuclear winter, it could be that people in now semi-arid regions then find themselves dealing with conditions people farther away from the equator are used to dealing with; it's good to know a few things about the differences.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 11, 2017, 02:19:59 PM
Hi Ilinda, I hope you get your separate sunchoke patch up and growing again, even if only for the extra peace of mind in knowing it's a reliable staple crop.  A friend of mine who farms 90 acres just keeps his on one big open mound at one end of his farm, not even in or near a garden.  I have them growing in dedicated quarantined beds at opposite ends of my little homestead, and just maintain paths around them for access.

Socrates, Thank you for all the great links that you post.  It will take me some time to digest all of your shared material.

Some other northern analog crops to share: Instead of tomatoes, there are sweet distant relatives such as cape gooseberries/ground cherries (similar growth habit to tomatilloes) that self-sow prolifically.  The pineapple flavored variety (Aunt Molly's) tastes awesome and fruits heavily the same season it's planted, but causes me to break out in hives, so allergy sufferers should be cautious. 

Alternatively, cherry tomatoes are perpetual if overwintered in a pot indoors, as are pepper plants.  Tumbling Tom cherry tomatoes make a gorgeous hanging basket both indoors and out.

Dandelion offers both a source of greens and a source of carotenes in the flower, which is a delicacy pan grilled in butter.

Although Good King Henry is touted as a kind of spinach, I find the seed head on the tops of the plants to be far more interesting and edible.  This plant is in the amaranth family and the abundant seed, which should be soaked overnight before using, is similar to quinoa, which provides a substitute for the taste of corn for dishes such as grits.  The plant makes a reliable and handsome medium-tall crop row in the garden.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 22, 2017, 11:51:53 AM
Adding a few more northern perennial permaculture crops that I'm experimenting with, some of which are variants of weeds!

Garlic chives - has both the garlic and onion flavor in one convenient crop.  Richter's of Canada carries started plug packs.

Groleau chives, also available at Richter's, is a cultivar for growing indoors under low-lighting conditions.

Dandelions that have been selected for non-bitterness (though the bitterness is actually beneficial for liver and GB) -   Cultivars Vollherzigen and Full Heart are available as started plants at Oikos Tree Crops.

Miners' lettuce or Claytonia seeds from Sowtrueseed.com

Chickweed seeds from Sowtrueseed.com (A half cup contains 375 mg of vitamin C, which is several times as much as an orange contains, so it's a good non-citrus source of C for northerners - see one of my favorite websites, the Plants for a Future database, for more details).
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on March 22, 2017, 04:30:35 PM
Adding a few more northern perennial permaculture crops that I'm experimenting with, some of which are variants of weeds!

Garlic chives - has both the garlic and onion flavor in one convenient crop.  Richter's of Canada carries started plug packs.

Groleau chives, also available at Richter's, is a cultivar for growing indoors under low-lighting conditions.

Dandelions that have been selected for non-bitterness (though the bitterness is actually beneficial for liver and GB) -   Cultivars Vollherzigen and Full Heart are available as started plants at Oikos Tree Crops.

Miners' lettuce or Claytonia seeds from Sowtrueseed.com

Chickweed seeds from Sowtrueseed.com (A half cup contains 375 mg of vitamin C, which is several times as much as an orange contains, so it's a good non-citrus source of C for northerners - see one of my favorite websites, the Plants for a Future database, for more details).
And according to some goat books, chickweed is higher in copper than many plants which makes it good for goats, as copper in the system tends to be unpalatable to intestinal parasites.  It doesn't kill them, per se, but they don't like the environment.

And for humans, it's good to know of plants with important trace minerals, as well as good ol' vitamin C.
Title: Re: chickweed
Post by: Socrates on March 22, 2017, 06:53:13 PM
I loves me chickweed!  :P
And it's all over the place this time of year here in Holland. Thank you! for letting me know it's a good source of copper. I've actually made colloidal copper before to make sure i get enough; now i know that i just have to harvest more chickweed.  :D
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Solani on March 26, 2017, 03:08:57 PM
Not sure what sub/category to write this. Let me know where to move it if it's in the wrong place.  8)

Growing potatoes in colder climate

I REALLY need to stop typing directly online... :( and type whatever in a document on my computer first. I don’t know how many times I’ve lost everything I’ve written, before I’ve been able to push the post button… Heck! I even think about the possibility of losing whatever loooooong post I’m writing before it happens. You’d think that would give me a clue??!? *ARRRRG*

So, here’s the second version for today… :P

What I’m writing here is how I’ve grown potatoes for many years now. Having lived in Sweden, where even if it does get very cold in the winters, potatoes grow successfully in large fields or in folks’ gardens. My house/property which I left when I moved over here to Canada is built on “mountain” and I only had a foot of earth/dirt before hitting bedrock, which made it a pain in the rear to plant stuff such as potatoes, carrots and other root veggies.

Coming here to Canada last winter to live with Dan I decided to “upgrade” my way of growing potatoes. Potatoes would most likely grow directly in the earth here as well but, season is shorter than it is in Sweden. In Sweden I would grow potatoes in layers of old car tires, stacked on each other as the potato plants grew. Here at Dan’s place I not only found LOTS of car tires but also many large old rear tractor tires. Geeez, sometimes I feel that what I can’t find out here, most likely doesn’t exist!! ;) Dan is a long time “hoarder” from everything to scrap metal, machinery, vehicles, tools (new and old) and much more… Took me the better part of last year to clear the first floor of the house…  :o Not to mention all the “fights” when I wanted to junk something that hmmm… “could be good to have”. I was lucky that his sister came up from Mississippi last summer for a month long visit and she took most of the “battles”.  ;D Didn’t throw everything away but, anything that doesn’t serve a purpose inside the house, had to “move out", into one of the many buildings outside. Anyhow… got sidetracked… ;)

I chose to use the large rear tractor tires for my “potato grow-op…” Same way as I would grow in the car tires but bigger. (bigger = more potatoes without more work...  ::) ) First I put down a 1-foot layer of straw on the ground where I was going to place the tires. Hauled the tires with the tractor and laid them down on top of the straw-beds I’d made. Next I took/take straw mixed with dirt and fill the sides (inner walls) of the tires to insulate from the cold but also it helps keep the moisture and warmth in the soil where the potatoes will grow. Also that the tires are black, makes it warmer…

I pre-plant my potatoes in gallon buckets of well fertilized soil. I use a mix of chicken and 2-year-old horse poop as fertilizing agent. When the potato plants have grown to be about 4 inches tall and have sprouted a healthy set of green leaves I bring the buckets outside during the daytime and set them next to the tires when the outside temperature during the day is warm, so they can get used to being outside before I permanently plant them in the tires. I mix the soil in the bottom tire with same type of fertilizer.

I also make sure that hopefully the frosty nights have past before permanently planting the potatoes outside. I water the prepared soil in the tires the evening before I plant the “potato babies”, giving it a thorough soak. Come morning I’m up with the sun and transfer the baby potato plants to the soil in the tires. You can fit about 8 – 10 potato plants in one large rear tractor tire and 4 potatoes in a car tire. One difference if using car tires, you need to start out with 2 tires stacked on each other, since they aren’t as “deep” as a rear tractor tire. You can also do a similar variation using a big plastic rain barrel. Just make sure you have a ring of holes drilled in the bottom of the barrel so water won’t collect and rot your potatoes from the bottom up. You can also place a layer of fist size rocks in the bottom of the barrel. The barrel method is a good way for someone that lives in a city that perhaps only has a balcony to plant their own potatoes. Just make sure you have a deep platter or dish under the barrel so your neighbor under you doesn’t have a conniption due to getting “rained on”.  ;)

Hmmm… back to the tractor potatoes…   :P
 
OK, so now we have the potato babies planted in the tires… Make sure to have a big pile of straw ready just in case it looks like it’s going to freeze during the night, so you can pile that straw on top of your potato plants during the night. Potatoes are quite hardy once they’ve adapted to being outside but don’t do all that well with frost during the first week or so when newly planted outside. The straw will protect from the brunt of a nightly freeze but if it looks like it’s going to be more than just a light drop in temperature, you can also add a tarp on top of the straw. Once the potatoes/leafage have grown to be about a foot above the soil, add more soil. (no need for more fertilizer) Just make sure that you don’t cover the plants completely. You need to have at least 6 inches of leafage above soil. Adding soil like this as they grow, will create room for more potatoes to grow under the soil. When needed, add another tire and keep adding soil as the potato plants grow. (insulate those tires with straw too) Last year I had 2 big 4 tire high stacks full of potatoes. Come time for harvest (after the first frost) “just knock the tire stack over…” Hmm… if you don’t have a tractor or a 4-wheel drive truck that you can attach a cable of sort to the stack or top tire to pull them down, go with the regular car tires. Those big tires are HEAVY… but well worth it. But do one layer of tire at a time if possible. (Which ever method you use to pull the tires down, make sure you or anyone else is nowhere near them and absolutely not downhill from them... That goes for your truck, tractor, house etc. as well. A runaway/rollaway tractor tire that has a mind of its own, can be downright evil!) All you do then is sort through the soil, basket the potatoes and store them somewhere well ventilated and cool. Don’t wash the dirt off of the potatoes until you are ready to use them.

I would plant my potatoes this way even if I did live in a warmer climate. I’m lazy and it sure saves your back not having to harvest from a field… Make sure you water your tire potatoes, depending on what your climate is like.

When you get down to the bottom tire, you can leave those potatoes in the dirt if you want, topping off with a thick layer of straw and a tarp. I have a friend that just heaps a thick layer of straw on top of the bottom layer/tire and a tarp on top of everything and come spring, she removes the tarp first and a few weeks later the straw and whatever potatoes that were left in the dirt sprout and that’s the start of her next year crop… I haven’t gotten that to work yet but I’ve seen hers.

//Solani
Title: Re: chickweed
Post by: Yowbarb on March 26, 2017, 04:36:37 PM
I loves me chickweed!  :P
And it's all over the place this time of year here in Holland. Thank you! for letting me know it's a good source of copper. I've actually made colloidal copper before to make sure i get enough; now i know that i just have to harvest more chickweed.  :D
Coffee beverage made of dandelions, chickweed... This kind of product probably plentiful in Europe... my understanding is, these plants are good for the liver. :)

https://www.amazon.com/Chickweed-Herbal-Coffee-Stellaria-Caffeine/dp/B00N6M3K6K
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on March 26, 2017, 04:37:45 PM
Solani, what great tips! Thanks for sharing!
 8)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 28, 2017, 10:33:25 AM
Hi Solani,

Seems as if those big tractor tires might also allow you a spot to sit while working, to some degree, which could help to spare your back as well as your energy in the summer heat.  Would love to see photos when your garden comes up this year!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 28, 2017, 10:50:18 AM
Yowbarb,

Thank you for the chickweed coffee link!  I consulted the Plants for a Future database, and was surprised to see how many species they're calling "coffee":

http://www.pfaf.org/user/Search_Use.aspx?glossary=Coffee
Title: Re: chickweed
Post by: ilinda on March 28, 2017, 05:24:30 PM
I loves me chickweed!  :P
And it's all over the place this time of year here in Holland. Thank you! for letting me know it's a good source of copper. I've actually made colloidal copper before to make sure i get enough; now i know that i just have to harvest more chickweed.  :D
Coffee beverage made of dandelions, chickweed... This kind of product probably plentiful in Europe... my understanding is, these plants are good for the liver. :)

https://www.amazon.com/Chickweed-Herbal-Coffee-Stellaria-Caffeine/dp/B00N6M3K6K
Wow, that's a new one--chickweed and dandelion coffee.  Do you like it? 
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Socrates on March 28, 2017, 07:27:17 PM
A collegue of mine is going to the Philippines in April [i.e. 2017];
ANYONE INTERESTED IN ORDERING COCAO OR COFFEE BEANS, ORDER (through me) NOW...
And, in case you hadn't noticed, it is extremely hard to come by live coffee or cocao beans as the producers of said beans are wary of competition...
Hey, i searched through Ebay and found zilch. Take advantage.
But of course it's good to know how to make other kinds. Can you recognize the chicory plant...?
Title: Re: chickweed
Post by: Yowbarb on March 28, 2017, 11:08:50 PM
I loves me chickweed!  :P
And it's all over the place this time of year here in Holland. Thank you! for letting me know it's a good source of copper. I've actually made colloidal copper before to make sure i get enough; now i know that i just have to harvest more chickweed.  :D
Coffee beverage made of dandelions, chickweed... This kind of product probably plentiful in Europe... my understanding is, these plants are good for the liver. :)

https://www.amazon.com/Chickweed-Herbal-Coffee-Stellaria-Caffeine/dp/B00N6M3K6K
Wow, that's a new one--chickweed and dandelion coffee.  Do you like it?

Years ago I bought "coffee subs" many from Germany. Some did have dandelion and I think the chickweed as well... I consider them a food... Fresher would be better of course. Update, no the main brands I see do not have the chickweed.
I am going to shop for some, even though I do drink coffee now, my body liked those sub drinks... Weren't very expensive, either.  http://commonsensehome.com/herbal-coffee-alternatives/  this site ahs good stuff not seeing chickweed in this one.

Update Here's one product I just found... has the chickweed!

https://www.amazon.com/Chickweed-Herbal-Coffee-Stellaria-Caffeine/dp/B00N6M3K6K

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on March 28, 2017, 11:16:22 PM
Chickweed seeds

https://www.amazon.com/HEIRLOOM-NON-GMO-Chickweed-seeds/dp/B00KPGJQ5O

Dandelion  http://heirloomseeds.com/herb-seeds-heirloom/dandelion-certified-organic.html

Chicory
http://heirloomseeds.com/herb-seeds-heirloom/dandelion-certified-organic.htmlChicory
Title: Re: edible herbs
Post by: Socrates on March 29, 2017, 03:42:34 AM
these kind of edible herbs are everywhere here in Holland right now [though, to be truthful, no so much chicory as i would like].
However, when i was down in the Canary Islands, there was none of all that and very little to be found in the way of edible herbs. A few seeds of edible herbs would certainly not hurt...  8)

I remember running into a tiny purslane plant on La Gomera...
(http://worldcrops.org/sites/worldcrops.org/files/crops/DSCN1054.jpg)
... and thinking: "Oh, sh!t! I have GOT to enclose this plant, water it, and save it from any goats that happen by!"... [purslane is tasty and offers great amounts of omega 3 fatty acids]
But, of course, wouldn't it just be wonderful to possess purslane seeds instead? I.E. instead of just hoping you run into something edible?
I'm just sayin'
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: ilinda on March 29, 2017, 05:40:25 PM
A collegue of mine is going to the Philippines in April [i.e. 2017];
ANYONE INTERESTED IN ORDERING COCAO OR COFFEE BEANS, ORDER (through me) NOW...
And, in case you hadn't noticed, it is extremely hard to come by live coffee or cocao beans as the producers of said beans are wary of competition...
Hey, i searched through Ebay and found zilch. Take advantage.
But of course it's good to know how to make other kinds. Can you recognize the chicory plant...?
Chicory when small resembles dandelion leaves, although rougher and slightly larger.  But as chicory grows it's obviously something different and sends up a rather tall spike with blue flowers.  It's the root that is often used as a coffee substitute.  Maybe everyone knows that....
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 31, 2017, 10:58:51 AM
Chicory grows in masses along the roadside here, blended with crown vetch, red clover and dame's rocket.  It's a really pretty mass of pastels in late spring (and full of deer ticks) :(

As far as the alternative coffees, I've only ever tasted the Dandyblend.  Was making soap in my Amish neighbor's kitchen on an especially foul-weather day, and she made me a hot cup of it with a drop of stevia and some fresh raw cream - it was even more yummy than hot chocolate! 
Title: Re: Dandyblend
Post by: Socrates on March 31, 2017, 11:37:46 AM
Was making soap in my Amish neighbor's kitchen on an especially foul-weather day, and she made me a hot cup of it with a drop of stevia and some fresh raw cream - it was even more yummy than hot chocolate!
PLEASE..., more details. It is for this kind of gold nuggets that i visit Planet X Townhall daily!

How do i exactly make a Dandyblend?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 31, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
Hi Socrates,

It's available in most health food stores in the U.S., and even available in Walmart I believe.  Here's a link for it on Amazon - a bit pricey, but might make a really good long-term storage drink/supplement/food for bringing into the Aftertime.

https://www.amazon.com/Dandy-Blend-Instant-Beverage-Dandelion/dp/B000SMN0DO/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1490987230&sr=8-1&keywords=dandy%2Bblend&th=1

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 05, 2017, 02:21:20 PM
More about skirret (perennial northern "carrots"):

The first time that I attempted to grow this crop, I made the mistake of planting them in a deep cedar box with no bottom, in other words a raised bed.  If you have any burrowing animals, there will need to be a bottom layer of stones between the planting soil and the ground surface.  My skirret had grown to full size over that whole first summer, but when I went to harvest some in the fall, everything below the crown of the plant was gone, and it could not have been due to rotting, as there was excellent drainage in the deep box.

Both fortunately and unfortunately, groundhogs are plentiful here: Unfortunate for the skirret, but maybe fortunate for the meat in the aftertimes, as I just learned that it tastes delicious when roasted and is not at all gamey. :)  Am now using a series of 2x4 galvanized troughs that have been punctured for drainage, instead of raised beds.

(http://)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 05, 2017, 03:58:49 PM
Skirret is offered in the listings with Seed Savers Exchange and I've often wanted to plant it.  Had no idea the roots were so long.  Do you bake it or shred it for salads or?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 05, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
Hi Ilinda,

It's very sweet, with the name meaning "sugar root," and can be used in any way that carrots can be used.

I should clarify that skirret is usually not harvested the first year while the plant is becoming established.  That first summer that I grew it, I was planning to harvest a little the first year because they were purchased as older plants.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 06, 2017, 05:59:10 AM
Recipe for skirret pie

(http://)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 06, 2017, 06:16:58 AM
Recipe for Skirret Fritters:
(http://)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 06, 2017, 04:15:33 PM
Both recipes sound really delicious, like a dessert right out of the garden.  Since skirret so sweet, it might resemble parsnips, which I grow and which are so sweet that it's more like eating dessert in the middle of the meal.

I grate them and mix with other diced or grated veggies such as shallots, sweet red pepper, potatoes, carrots, sweet potato, and stir fry it all together in olive oil in a cast iron skillet.  You can even throw in broccoli.  OMG, it is truly delicious.

Am thinking of grating some parsnips to substitute for carrots in carrot cake, well... parsnip cake.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 06, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Not sure what sub/category to write this. Let me know where to move it if it's in the wrong place.  8)

Growing potatoes in colder climate

I REALLY need to stop typing directly online... :( and type whatever in a document on my computer first. I don’t know how many times I’ve lost everything I’ve written, before I’ve been able to push the post button… Heck! I even think about the possibility of losing whatever loooooong post I’m writing before it happens. You’d think that would give me a clue??!? *ARRRRG*

So, here’s the second version for today… :P

What I’m writing here is how I’ve grown potatoes for many years now. Having lived in Sweden, where even if it does get very cold in the winters, potatoes grow successfully in large fields or in folks’ gardens. My house/property which I left when I moved over here to Canada is built on “mountain” and I only had a foot of earth/dirt before hitting bedrock, which made it a pain in the rear to plant stuff such as potatoes, carrots and other root veggies.

Coming here to Canada last winter to live with Dan I decided to “upgrade” my way of growing potatoes. Potatoes would most likely grow directly in the earth here as well but, season is shorter than it is in Sweden. In Sweden I would grow potatoes in layers of old car tires, stacked on each other as the potato plants grew. Here at Dan’s place I not only found LOTS of car tires but also many large old rear tractor tires. Geeez, sometimes I feel that what I can’t find out here, most likely doesn’t exist!! ;) Dan is a long time “hoarder” from everything to scrap metal, machinery, vehicles, tools (new and old) and much more… Took me the better part of last year to clear the first floor of the house…  :o Not to mention all the “fights” when I wanted to junk something that hmmm… “could be good to have”. I was lucky that his sister came up from Mississippi last summer for a month long visit and she took most of the “battles”.  ;D Didn’t throw everything away but, anything that doesn’t serve a purpose inside the house, had to “move out", into one of the many buildings outside. Anyhow… got sidetracked… ;)

I chose to use the large rear tractor tires for my “potato grow-op…” Same way as I would grow in the car tires but bigger. (bigger = more potatoes without more work...  ::) ) First I put down a 1-foot layer of straw on the ground where I was going to place the tires. Hauled the tires with the tractor and laid them down on top of the straw-beds I’d made. Next I took/take straw mixed with dirt and fill the sides (inner walls) of the tires to insulate from the cold but also it helps keep the moisture and warmth in the soil where the potatoes will grow. Also that the tires are black, makes it warmer…

I pre-plant my potatoes in gallon buckets of well fertilized soil. I use a mix of chicken and 2-year-old horse poop as fertilizing agent. When the potato plants have grown to be about 4 inches tall and have sprouted a healthy set of green leaves I bring the buckets outside during the daytime and set them next to the tires when the outside temperature during the day is warm, so they can get used to being outside before I permanently plant them in the tires. I mix the soil in the bottom tire with same type of fertilizer.

I also make sure that hopefully the frosty nights have past before permanently planting the potatoes outside. I water the prepared soil in the tires the evening before I plant the “potato babies”, giving it a thorough soak. Come morning I’m up with the sun and transfer the baby potato plants to the soil in the tires. You can fit about 8 – 10 potato plants in one large rear tractor tire and 4 potatoes in a car tire. One difference if using car tires, you need to start out with 2 tires stacked on each other, since they aren’t as “deep” as a rear tractor tire. You can also do a similar variation using a big plastic rain barrel. Just make sure you have a ring of holes drilled in the bottom of the barrel so water won’t collect and rot your potatoes from the bottom up. You can also place a layer of fist size rocks in the bottom of the barrel. The barrel method is a good way for someone that lives in a city that perhaps only has a balcony to plant their own potatoes. Just make sure you have a deep platter or dish under the barrel so your neighbor under you doesn’t have a conniption due to getting “rained on”.  ;)

Hmmm… back to the tractor potatoes…   :P
 
OK, so now we have the potato babies planted in the tires… Make sure to have a big pile of straw ready just in case it looks like it’s going to freeze during the night, so you can pile that straw on top of your potato plants during the night. Potatoes are quite hardy once they’ve adapted to being outside but don’t do all that well with frost during the first week or so when newly planted outside. The straw will protect from the brunt of a nightly freeze but if it looks like it’s going to be more than just a light drop in temperature, you can also add a tarp on top of the straw. Once the potatoes/leafage have grown to be about a foot above the soil, add more soil. (no need for more fertilizer) Just make sure that you don’t cover the plants completely. You need to have at least 6 inches of leafage above soil. Adding soil like this as they grow, will create room for more potatoes to grow under the soil. When needed, add another tire and keep adding soil as the potato plants grow. (insulate those tires with straw too) Last year I had 2 big 4 tire high stacks full of potatoes. Come time for harvest (after the first frost) “just knock the tire stack over…” Hmm… if you don’t have a tractor or a 4-wheel drive truck that you can attach a cable of sort to the stack or top tire to pull them down, go with the regular car tires. Those big tires are HEAVY… but well worth it. But do one layer of tire at a time if possible. (Which ever method you use to pull the tires down, make sure you or anyone else is nowhere near them and absolutely not downhill from them... That goes for your truck, tractor, house etc. as well. A runaway/rollaway tractor tire that has a mind of its own, can be downright evil!) All you do then is sort through the soil, basket the potatoes and store them somewhere well ventilated and cool. Don’t wash the dirt off of the potatoes until you are ready to use them.

I would plant my potatoes this way even if I did live in a warmer climate. I’m lazy and it sure saves your back not having to harvest from a field… Make sure you water your tire potatoes, depending on what your climate is like.

When you get down to the bottom tire, you can leave those potatoes in the dirt if you want, topping off with a thick layer of straw and a tarp. I have a friend that just heaps a thick layer of straw on top of the bottom layer/tire and a tarp on top of everything and come spring, she removes the tarp first and a few weeks later the straw and whatever potatoes that were left in the dirt sprout and that’s the start of her next year crop… I haven’t gotten that to work yet but I’ve seen hers.

//Solani
When did you plant your potatoes this year, assuming you already did.  BTW, thanks for the detailed explanations, which some farther south probably wouldn't need to do, but with such unpredictable weather, who knows.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 06, 2017, 05:41:51 PM
Ilinda, your parsnip dish sounds wonderful!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2017, 03:43:30 PM
Uploading a diagram of one of our permaculture areas that my sons helped me create over the years as a home-school project.  All on less than two acres that is more than half wooded.  More diagrams soon.  Many thanks once again to Barb Townsend for the link to info on Siberian Pea.


Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2017, 06:37:21 PM
Uploading diagram of south yard, an integrated fenced area combining critters, compost and crops, with gates to let critters out to forage.  All another former home school project.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 26, 2017, 05:14:14 AM
Uploading diagram of north yard.  None of our gardens are this neat and tidy in real life!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 27, 2017, 03:12:26 PM
Updated east yard diagram -
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 15, 2017, 08:04:33 AM
Adding the common weed Henbit Deadnettle (Lamium amplexicaule) to the list of temperate-climate edibles.  Even though it's not perennial, it is a cold-weather annual that self-sows prolifically and is packed with nutrition for both people and poultry.  It is also an important bee nectary plant in the north. 

Here is a disambiguation of henbit, creeping Charlie, and purple dead nettle: http://identifythatplant.com/three-easily-mixed-up-early-spring-plants/

According to Ediblewildfood.com: "Edible parts: Henbit can be consumed fresh or cooked as an edible herb, and it can be used in teas. The stem, flowers, and leaves are edible, and although this is in the mint family, many people say it tastes slightly like raw kale, not like mint. Henbit is very nutritious, high in iron, vitamins and fibre. You can add raw henbit to salads, soups, wraps, or green smoothies. According to Natural Medicinal Herbs (dot net) this plant is anti-rheumatic, diaphoretic, an excitant, febrifuge, a laxative and a stimulant."

PFAF says: "Edible Uses: Young leaves - raw or cooked; added to salads or used as a potherb."

In looking for specific nutritional content, I came across this interesting chart from Mother Earth: http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/wild-foods-zmaz86jazgoe .  As mentioned above, henbit is more closely related to mints with its square stem than to nettles, so a comparable nutritional profile might be 32 calories per 100 grams, 3g protein, .7g fat, 194 mg calcium, 48 mg phosphorus, 3.8 mg iron, 2 mg sodium, 179 mg potassium, 1,296 mg vitamin A, .13 mg thiamine, .16 mg riboflavin, .7 mg niacin, 64 mg vitamin C.  The purple-colored flowers should be rich in the polyphenol flavonoid proanthocyanidin, a strong antioxidant and important contributor to collagen strength that is also under investigation for anti-cancer benefits.

I also came across an explanation of why the word "dead" is in the common names of some "nettles": "Dead" means "non-stinging."  The dead nettles are in the Lamium genus, while the stinging nettles are in the Urtica genus.


Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 16, 2017, 05:10:24 PM
I had no idea henbit was so useful!  I leave it in the garden every spring as long as possible because honeybees like it, and IIRC bumblebees also.  Anyway, when the flowers are done, then I can remove and plant.

Maybe now we can eat some.  Anyone else tried it yet?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 16, 2017, 06:21:55 PM
Hi Ilinda,

I'm thinking of making a separate little garden patch for some of it to remain permanently, and will try it in a chef salad this week and report back.

What are IIRC bumblebees?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 17, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
Hi Ilinda,

I'm thinking of making a separate little garden patch for some of it to remain permanently, and will try it in a chef salad this week and report back.

What are IIRC bumblebees?
Oops.  Sorry to use that.  IIRC = If I Recall Correctly....

I think I'll start a new topic about these abbreviations.  In visiting one forum in particular, a Linux users group, there are so many abbreviations thrown around that it's not easy for a newbie to even figure out what they are talking about sometimes.  In other forum settings, they are rarely used.  I'm guilty of using IOW for in other words and a few more.  That will be a project for this week.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 25, 2017, 08:21:14 AM
Don't know if anyone here reads Farmer Scrub's blog ( http://farmerscrub.blogspot.com/ ), but he is an admirer of Carol Deppe, and writes extensively about how to intercrop permie plants to make them produce more in less space, including diagrams. 

Regarding sunchokes, he suggests fermenting them before eating to make them more digestible for folks who don't tolerate the inulin starch well.  A nearby elderly farmer here says that sunchokes need to be overwintered in the ground, allowing the gassy starch to turn to sugar, and that they are eaten in late winter / early spring as a more digestible starvation ration.  If any of you who are knowledgeable about fermenting foods have ideas about how to ferment sunchokes for warm season eating, please share!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 29, 2017, 05:51:32 PM
I don't know if any of you loved the Christy series as much as I did.  Long story short, young girl from rich family leaves wealth behind to follow calling as a teacher deep in the mountains.  Finds herself with two contending suitors, of course.  Deep poverty there, but wealth of natural resources.  Favorite episode was at Thanksgiving time [SPOILER ALERT]: Just as the people are on the verge of facing a bleak winter and the prospect of losing their mountain to a developer, a couple of them go exploring and discover, just in the nick of time, a wealth of mature persimmon trees laden with fruit in a clearing deep in the woods that they never knew existed.  They work together to produce jams etc. to sell to city folk for the Christmas season.

If you've never had a persimmon, they are from native American fruiting trees (non-American cultivars also exist) in the Diospyros genus that fill a couple of important niches in the north:

First, they have longevity, and are roughly equivalent in taste and appearance to apricots, which do not have longevity here (they often tend to die in as many years as it took them to come to maturity). 

Second, they bear in the off-season in mid to late autumn, and edible fruit can still be found clinging to the trees in winter.

The trick to getting good fruit from the American varieties is to leave them on the tree (or let them drop on their own) until they are fully ripe and wrinkled - bite into one too soon and you get a mouth full of bitter astringency. :P  When they do get ripe and drop, then you are competing with area wildlife for the luscious windfalls.

Planted a pair of them in early spring.  One broke dormancy and leafed out beautifully, while the other one has yet to break dormancy two months later.  So I covered the tree in sheet plastic and am "sweating" it until the buds open up.  Important to do because the tree will not put on growth until it wakes up.  Recipes to follow :)


Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 29, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
Persimmon bread recipe:
http://honest-food.net/persimmon-nut-bread-recipe/

(and some recipes add 2/3 c bourbon or cognac) ;)

Persimmon pudding recipe:
http://www.food.com/recipe/persimmon-pudding-15963


Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 30, 2017, 06:30:14 PM
Does that ever look tasty!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 08, 2017, 02:48:28 PM
Adding photo of annual Seminole pumpkins coming up in a hay bale amongst the perennial blueberries - no space is wasted!  Advantages of the hay bale:

1. Can utilize this space between blueberry bushes without disturbing their shallow roots.
2. Pumpkins and blueberries have differing pH requirements, and need their own soil
3. Curcubits in this area are notorious for diseases (Seminole is an exception), and this way a problem is not being encouraged in situ
4. When done with this annual crop, hay will be broken down to mulch the shallow blueberry roots
5. Instead of having to rotate the crop, I can plant pumpkins in hay in the same spot next year
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: good perpetual fruits for a bug-out bag or barter
Post by: R.R. Book on June 09, 2017, 04:45:21 AM
Besides strawberry crowns, one small fruiting plant possibly to include (at the last minute) in a zip-lock bag to bug-out with is a first-year dwarf blueberry, or dwarf thornless blackberry or raspberry.  They are sold under different names on the market, with one of the best-known names being Brazleberry, after their breeder.  The blueberry and the raspberry have a more dwarved stature than the blackberry.

The dwarf raspberries and blackberries often produce daughter plants that can be found a short distance away from the mother plant.  These are not suckers or clones in need of division - rather they are entire new plants, free of charge.  For this reason, a few small plants could lead to a nice barter business.  The raspberry version bears throughout the summer, while the blackberry should crop once in summer and again in autumn, and no need to bother with pruning old floracanes every year.  Their low profile makes them a good forage food for grazing poultry, so if you want any fruit for yourself, need to be one step ahead of them!

Mature ones growing on septic system:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Disease-resistant cold-hardy grapes
Post by: R.R. Book on June 09, 2017, 06:32:05 AM
Disease-resistant seedless grapes suitable for the North can be divided into two categories: Muscadines (a.k.a. Scuppernogs) and Labruscas, both of which are native to North America, as opposed to the Vitis vinifera grapes imported from Europe to California for wine making.  While the cool moist climate of the Northeast and the warm moist climate of the Southeast make the entire East Coast mostly unsuitable for vinifera with its disease susceptibility, the Muscadines and Labruscas thrive here.  As a broad generality, grapes that are suitable for the East Coast tend toward being "slipskin," meaning that they don't have the delicate thin skins of West Coast wine grapes.

Though Muscadines are mostly grown in the South, the Ison family of Georgia has been breeding them since the Great Depression and has developed some extremely cold-hardy and disease-resistant cultivars capable of thriving in the north.  "Fry Seedless" is a red variety that needs to pollinate with another cultivar, and "Black Fry" is a good choice in the North.  The grapevines are so vigorous that they need to be pruned back several times in summer, and the cuttings make good forage for goats.  See recent photo below after the first pruning of summer.

Disease-resistant Labrusca and hybrid types that I'm currently experimenting with include Mars blue seedless from the University of Arkansas, Black Corinth seedless champagne, and Einset red seedless.  Mars and Einset are the most cold-hardy of these.  They can be obtained for under $10.
Title: Re: blueberry roots
Post by: Socrates on June 09, 2017, 06:41:14 AM
Can utilize this space between blueberry bushes without disturbing their shallow roots.
:o
I heard... blueberry roots can go down, like, 30 feet...
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 09, 2017, 08:03:47 AM
Hi Socrates,

You might be thinking of grapes, which can survive drought due to roots that dive deeply in search of water, much like a tree.  In 20 years of growing blueberries here, one of the challenges has been to keep piles of rotting leaves on top of the soil; otherwise, if the soil is disturbed even a little, roots are exposed to the air and the plants suffer.  On a rare occasion if one should die, it takes very little effort to pull it out of the ground, because not much is holding it in.  I can only speak for blueberries in my own latitude though. :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: tart cherries
Post by: R.R. Book on June 09, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
Several years back, Canada produced a remarkable dwarf tart cherry tree that has a lot of plusses and no minuses that I've ever been able to find.  It is the Carmine Jewel.  Unlike the bush-type cherries that were developed prior to its debut, the Carmine Jewel maintains a tidy little near-perfect tree shape, rather than sprawling.  It stops growing around 6' in height, making the harvest an easy chore. 

It bears heavily by about age three, and does not suffer from the unsightly leaf spot that plagues sweet cherries in a rainy season.  In the unusual heat and drought of last summer, the only response from the tree was not to fruit that year.  This year it has bounced back with a bumper crop. 

A clean pair of tweezers will quickly pit them, and they can then be frozen, dehydrated, or eaten fresh, with a sweet-tartness of around 14 on the Brix scale.  They make nice additions to pies, muffins and quick breads.  I did make the mistake, however, the very first year of putting them straight from the freezer into my Thanksgiving pies along with a batch of blueberries, and had to soak up a lot of liquid from the finished crust.  Best to cook them down a bit apart from the crust ahead of time.

Health benefits listed here: http://foodfacts.mercola.com/sour-cherries.html

Photo below:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on June 09, 2017, 09:48:56 PM
Hi Ilinda,

I'm thinking of making a separate little garden patch for some of it to remain permanently, and will try it in a chef salad this week and report back.

What are IIRC bumblebees?
Oops.  Sorry to use that.  IIRC = If I Recall Correctly....

I think I'll start a new topic about these abbreviations.  In visiting one forum in particular, a Linux users group, there are so many abbreviations thrown around that it's not easy for a newbie to even figure out what they are talking about sometimes.  In other forum settings, they are rarely used.  I'm guilty of using IOW for in other words and a few more.  That will be a project for this week.

ilinda I like your "newfangled" abbreviations, haha. I mean LOL. :)
Being a long-time collector of slang and colloquialisms, I may as well add internet slang to it.
I know some but would enjoy learning more.  8) 
You could put a Topic, Post It All and Let Blog Sort It Out would be a good place.
(I made that Board name up many years ago.)
- Yowbarb
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on June 11, 2017, 03:25:31 PM
To R.R. RE the Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry trees:

This is the first thing that popped up in google a place to purchase... there is a live chat on the page, lower right... http://www.henryfields.com/product/Carmine_Jewel_Dwarf_Cherry_Tree

Free shipping, order over $40. Some restricted states but your state is not restricted. Ship Season: Spring
There are other sources, of course...
Barb T.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 12, 2017, 09:26:53 AM
Thanks Barb, I checked and they were out of stock, but seem to be in stock here:  http://ediblelandscaping.com/buyPlants.php?func=view&id=1040 .

There are some new cultivars, Romeo and Juliet, that I have no experience with, but are said to have the same dwarfing tree growth habit.  Romeo is said to be very juicy, which reminds me that there is a cherry meat-to-juice ratio that the buyer needs to select for.  If you want pies, then select for a high meat ratio, and if you want to juice them... you get the idea. :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 12, 2017, 09:49:11 AM
Posting an update regarding the persimmon tree that never leafed out:

Turned out not be a dormancy problem.  After weeks of trying to "sweat" it to bring it out of dormancy, I called the nursery and was told to cut off the top and bring it in.  When I did, the owner showed me a series of tiny pinholes in the trunk and said it was killed by a Shothole Borer (Scolytus rugulosus), which is the larvae of a fruit tree bark beetle that can wipe out an orchard if not stopped by painting trunks with laytex whitewash (50% interior paint and 50% water mixed).

Fortunately, the owner assumed the liability on his end since he buys from wholesale nurseries that could have passed the infestation on.  He instructed me to watch for any sign of infestation on other fruit trees, which would show up as the pinholes, declining vigor, or exuding sap.  He said the problem usually only affects saplings under 2 years of age.  Another persimmon tree that we purchased from the same nursery at the same time is showing vigorous growth and seems not to be affected.

Uploading a photo from the web:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 25, 2017, 07:02:50 AM
The dwarf raspberry bushes mentioned earlier are in full production, and we've had so much rain that it's difficult to get into the berry patch often enough to harvest before the fruit rots.  I was eating handfuls of slightly over-ripe ones this morning while picking the berries, and came away with around a quart for making crepes, etc.  I can't recommend this particular rootstock enough to others who may be contemplating starting a berry patch of their own.  No thorns, take up little space, produce berries by one year of age, heavy production within a couple of years at most, produce free daughter plants, no diseases, no pruning, and no pests except ground scavengers on fruit that touches the ground.  The trick with these is to constantly be turning low branches up to look beneath them - that's where the most fruit is borne, and if you didn't look underneath the branches, you might think that they weren't producing much.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 25, 2017, 03:53:39 PM
Oh, I envy you.  I tried raspberry plants and they died by the second year, although they thrive for Shirley, my farmer friend.  What is the variety of those beautiful and tasty looking raspberries?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 25, 2017, 06:21:31 PM
Ilinda, These are the Brazelberries that I mentioned earlier, named for the breeder, and they're supposed to grow in zones 4-9, so you should be able to grow these in MO without trouble.  They're sold under different names, but if you Google the breeder's original name for it, you'll get all the other names that they're sold under.  They like a loamy, well drained soil, and they're petite enough to be planted in pots if necessary.  If you're in the warm southern part of MO, might want to allow some afternoon shade, as berries naturally grow at the edge of a woodland.   
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Tart cherries
Post by: R.R. Book on June 26, 2017, 05:50:39 AM
Most of the harvest is in now from the dwarf tart cherry tree that we discussed earlier.  Ten pints were canned this past week, with another pint or two left to finish ripening on the tree. The pint jars were pressure canned at 5 pounds pressure for 8 minutes.

I hand pitted all of these, and must admit that my hands were tired from the work.  Am looking into mechanical cherry pitters, which range in price from $2 to $200, using a variety of ingenious methods.  I can only think of one reason not to use one, and that is the very real possibility that a pit could be missed, resulting in a cracked tooth if an unsuspecting person should happen to bite into it, which in the Aftertime would constitute more than just a minor emergency.  A good compromise might be to use the mechanical pitter, but then carefully check the cherries to make sure no pit was missed, before canning or serving them.

These jars will need to be wrapped in bubble wrap and carefully put away in a 5 gallon pail down in the root cellar.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 26, 2017, 12:53:21 PM
Bee balm, Monarda didyma, provides food for humans as well as bees.  Leaves and young stems can be eaten raw or cooked.  The flower heads are eaten raw.  Fresh or dried leaves and flower heads can be made into a tea, and in fact are added to Earl Grey tea. 

Medicinal properties listed by PFAF: Bergamot is often used as a domestic medicine, being particularly useful in the treatment of digestive disorders. The leaves and flowering stems are anthelmintic, carminative, diuretic, expectorant, febrifuge, rubefacient and stimulant[4, 222]. An infusion is used in the treatment of flatulent colic and sickness, it is also used as a diuretic to treat urinary disorders[4, 238]. The leaves can be harvested before the plant flowers, or they can be harvested with the flowering stems. They can be used fresh or dried[238]. An essential oil from the herb is mainly used externally as a rubefacient in the treatment of rheumatism etc.

Can you guess which weed we've recently discussed that is in the same family?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Disease resistant apple trees
Post by: R.R. Book on June 26, 2017, 01:40:52 PM
There are several varieties of disease-resistant apple trees that can be obtained either full-size or on dwarfing rootstock.  One of the best sources for these is Cummins Nursery located in the Finger Lakes region of New York state, which works closely with Cornell University to breed and improve apple cultivars (the owner was a long-time professor at the University's Geneva Experimental Station) . 

Besides the Liberty cultivar that's been around for a long time now, I can personally vouch for William's Pride, Enterprise, and Redfree.  We have never needed to spray these with any chemicals.  They do need to be watched carefully for gypsy moth larvae nests in spring (they resemble bagworm nests), which should be removed by hand as soon as they are spotted.  All three produce sweet-tart apples that are a mixture of red and green coloring, with good keeping qualities.  Am just beginning to experiment with Arkansas Black, a full deep red apple that is said to be one of the longest keepers of all, storing until the following spring in a cool location.  They all produce good cider.

We situated a few of them as foundation plantings to wick rainwater away from the house, and encouraged them to lean over a fence rail for ease of harvesting.  Actually, if memory serves correctly, Mother Nature gets the credit for giving us the idea following an ice storm that left them bent over the rail.  :)

Here is a list of disease-resistant apple cultivars, much longer than existed even just several years ago:
http://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/apple-trees/disease-resistant

Here is a table of rootstock sizes for comparison: http://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/rootstocks

Attaching a visual comparison aid:



Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Disease resistant apple trees
Post by: ilinda on June 26, 2017, 03:04:45 PM
Besides the Liberty cultivar that's been around for a long time now, I can personally vouch for William's Pride, Enterprise, and Redfree.  We have never needed to spray these with any chemicals.  They do need to be watched carefully for gypsy moth larvae nests in spring (they resemble bagworm nests), which should be removed by hand as soon as they are spotted.  All three produce sweet-tart apples that are a mixture of red and green coloring, with good keeping qualities.  Am just beginning to experiment with Arkansas Black, a full deep red apple that is said to be one of the longest keepers of all, storing until the following spring in a cool location.  They all produce good cider.


Here is a list of disease-resistant apple cultivars, much longer than existed even just several years ago:
http://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/apple-trees/disease-resistant

The Arkansas Black is indeed a favorite here.  We've tried three times to grow them and some of our third planting are surviving.  Around here they must be truly protected from deer as they will shred the trees and absolutely kill them.  They must be somewhat addictive to deer.  When the deer are finished with a tree for a while, it literally looks as if some giant shredder/chipper came along and just stopped a while. 

Their keeping qualities are the best, as they keep for months and months just in a fridge.  We pack them into ziplok bags (9 each) and zip them almost all the way, after sprinkling two blasts of water/mist on them before closing the bag.  They can use Liberty or Enterprise (plus some others) as pollinizer trees, and this Ark. Black is fairly well resistant to Cedar Apple Rust.

Thanks for posting this apple reminder.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 27, 2017, 06:32:56 AM
Quote
We pack them into ziplok bags (9 each) and zip them almost all the way, after sprinkling two blasts of water/mist on them before closing the bag.

That's really good information to have Ilinda!  I got an Ark Black from Clemson University Extension recently, and have been really pleased with the growth and form. 

Glad that you managed to preserve something from the deer.  They do come around here too, mostly in late winter, with the closest visitation being from a fawn grazing in an English ivy patch near the house.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Lovage
Post by: R.R. Book on June 27, 2017, 10:03:19 AM
Lovage, Levisticum officinale, is little-known in the U.S. but a common feature in English kitchen gardens, being a kind of perennial celery and parsley combined.  It is hardy in U.S. zones 5-9, and enjoys being situated in a damp spot in full to part sun.  Because this plant is extremely pungent, its stalks wouldn't be used in the same manner that fresh celery is used, but are better used as more of a pot-herb that blends well with other flavors, starting out seeming overly-accentuated in a dish until it has had time to stew and mingle.  It needs lots of room to grow, as it will become several feet high and a few feet wide.  I've tried growing this plant in rows, but found it best to tuck them in individually here and there in the garden wherever a spot can be found that allows the plant to take over. 

PFAF warns about the myristicine content, an aromatic phenylpropene oil also common to other herbs such as celery, fennel, nutmeg and so forth.  However, in lovage the oil is largely confined to seeds that form on top of the plant after flowering, while it's the stalk and leaves that are used in cooking.  Wiki says about the aromatic seed compounds: the metabolism of these molecules quickly progresses from flavor to toxin to safe excretion.

The leaves are at their best for harvesting before the plant flowers, and may be frozen or dried.  To keep the plant size in check, they can be pruned back a couple of times in summer, and stalks may also be chopped and added to the harvest.  However, the flower heads attract dozens of those tiny beneficial wasps, and I have been stung trying to cut back the plants when they are in flower.  A gallon zip-lock bag of chopped stalks and leaves should provide enough to add to a large stew pot as often as once a week throughout autumn and winter, if maybe a handful is thrown into the pot each time. 

Some health food and other stores sell an MSG-free lovage bouillon cube manufactured by the Organic Gourmet, which runs around $3 per pack of 8 individually wrapped cubes that would make a nutritious storage food with 16 servings per 8-cube box.  They make a nice little quick cup of soup to take the chill off, with these ingredients listed:  Sea Salt, Maize (Corn) Starch*, sustainably harvested NON-hydrogenated Palm Fruit Oil*, Nutritional Yeast Extract, Leeks*, Carrots*, Tomatoes*, Spices* (Nutmeg*, Garlic*, Turmeric*), Herbs* (Lovage Leaves*, Parsley*, Celery Leaves*) Onions*

*From certified organic production, certified organic by IMO, CH-BIO-004.

PFAF adds this information about medicinal uses:
Lovage is a warming and tonic herb for the digestive and respiratory systems. It is used primarily in the treatment of indigestion, poor appetite, wind, colic and bronchitis[254]. The roots, leaves and fruits are antispasmodic, aromatic, carminative, diaphoretic, digestive, diuretic, mildly expectorant and stimulant[4, 7, 21, 46, 165, 238]. They are used internally in the treatment of disordered stomachs, especially cases of colic and flatulence in children, kidney stones, cystitis, painful menstruation and slow labour[4, 238]. Externally, the root is used in the treatment of sore throats and aphthous ulcers[238].

A lovage butter recipe is posted here: http://www.gardenersnet.com/recipes/lovage-butter.htm

Attaching a pic of the bouillon box, as well as a photo of the plant sprawling in my garden:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 27, 2017, 02:17:23 PM
Several times I've tried to grow this beauty, and without much success, but after reading your article, maybe mine needed more moisture, and a bit of shade.  It was planted each time in full sun in the middle of the garden and now I realize in part shade in herb garden near watering barrel would work better.

Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2017, 02:15:32 PM
Anise hyssop, also known as licorice mint, giant blue hyssop and agastache, is neither mint nor licorice, but gets a 5 star edibility rating by PFAF.  The website says that leaves and flowers may be eaten raw or used as a seasoning in salads or cooked foods.  A tea made from the leaves is said to be medicinal for colds, fevers, weak heart, and chest pain from coughing.  Leaves and stems can also be made into a poultice to treat burns. 

PFAF gives incorrect information about the hardiness zones, placing it exclusively in the South, a mistake that is corrected by readers in the comments section.  It should be hardy to at least zone 4.

The plant also belongs in bee nectary gardens. :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Sunchokes in the late summer garden
Post by: R.R. Book on August 12, 2017, 12:18:26 PM
Posting a photo to show how much room sunchokes take up in the garden, necessitating their own patch.  They are the last flowers to bloom in our garden, usually right on the Autumnal Equinox.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 12, 2017, 05:57:50 PM
Wow, do you ever have a nice batch of tubers for winter time eating.  Beautiful patch.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on August 15, 2017, 12:24:19 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/02/jerusalem-artichokes-good-for-you

Jerusalem artichokes - These sweet and crunchy tubers are too often overlooked for far simpler and less flavoursome vegetables

Try this Jerusalem artichoke, hazelnut and goat's cheese tart recipe:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/02/jerusalem-artichoke-hazelnut-cheese-tart-recipe
...
Why Jerusalem artichokes are good for you

Joanna Blythman
Saturday 2 February 2013 02.00 EST

Jerusalem artichokes are a reason to be cheerful in January and February. Sweet and crunchy when raw, smooth and aromatic when cooked, these knobbly tubers shine like beacons on the lean, dark midwinter shopping list.

It's surprising they aren't a more commonplace seasonal vegetable. Jerusalem artichokes grow easily in the UK, displaying a dogged resistance to disease, a characteristic that endears them not only to organic growers, but also to consumers who'd prefer that their food didn't come with a garnish of pesticide. But their flavour is the clincher: more complex than the simple sugariness of carrots, more elegant than celeriac or parsnip.

There are, admittedly, a couple of bad points about Jerusalem artichokes. Either you must spend time cleaning them meticulously, or peel them generously. But since they are reliably cheap, we needn't consider that profligate. Then there's their oft‑reported habit of inducing flatulence. But surely a little hot air is worth it for a vegetable this special?

Why are they good for me?

Eat Jerusalem artichokes and you'll be topping up on important minerals. They are rich in iron to give you energy, along with potassium and vitamin B1, which support your muscles and nerves. Although they're sweet, their starchy fibre stops any spikes in blood sugar levels – indeed they have a lower glycemic index (GI) score than potatoes – and they aren't fattening.

Where to buy, what to pay?

A staple of organic veggie box schemes, and easy to find in traditional and farmers' markets, there's no guarantee you'll find them in supermarkets, but some do stock them. Expect to pay around £3.20-£3.50 per kilo.

Joanna Blythman is the author of What To Eat (Fourth Estate, £16.99). To order a copy for £11 with free UK p&p, go to guardianbookshop.co.uk
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 15, 2017, 01:17:00 PM
Quote
Then there's their oft‑reported habit of inducing flatulence.

They need to be allowed to undergo several freezes while in the ground before being eaten, which is why they're best eaten any time between late autumn (Thanksgiving?) and early spring (before your first greens are available), as a traditional "starvation ration."  This will cause the inulin to be converted into fructose for better digestibility and assimilation. 

I can personally attest that I was in intense gastric distress the very first time I ate a plate of roasted 'chokes freshly harvested one September (when they were abundantly available but not converted) some years back.

The GI tract can also become accustomed to inulin over time.  I've found that eating Oikos Triple Zero yogurt daily (while it's still available) has acclimated my gut to inulin, which is one of the key "cheat" ingredients in the yogurt that allows Oikos to get away with claiming no sugar or fat in such a thickened product while using a carb in the ingredients.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 09, 2017, 10:53:40 AM
The muscadine grape (refer to earlier post) harvest is in progress.  Enough were picked to go with supper.  These are from the black cultivar that has a few small seeds, as well as the red seedless variety, both of which are cold-hardy. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 16, 2017, 05:56:50 PM
Because Yamiken squash sprawl so widely and wildly, covering everything in their path, they are great for smothering out weeds, or at least things you want to think of as unwanted.  Today I harvested the entire patch after a mild frost which nipped tops of squash, but left tomatoes and peppers OK. 

Total count was 90 Yamiken, 89 of which are now indoors, and one remaining, having grown into the fence.  They need several weeks to cure, even if they have already turned their orange color, but since most of these still have some green, we will wait several months before eating.  They become sweeter as they mature and attain their final orange-y color.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 17, 2017, 03:08:35 PM
Very impressive harvest Ilinda!  Do you just cure them in the sun, or do you do the bleach dip/alcohol dip before storage?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 17, 2017, 05:34:52 PM
Very impressive harvest Ilinda!  Do you just cure them in the sun, or do you do the bleach dip/alcohol dip before storage?
They were left in the sun primarily for the pic.  But I do let them dry a bit before taking indoors, and have never done a bleach or alcohol dip for winter squash to be stored.  Maybe I should? 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 02, 2018, 01:30:28 PM
I dug up some sunchokes this weekend, taking care not to remove all of them as they are a permacrop.  They were washed and cut apart into smaller pieces, and am getting ready to roast them in butter and sea salt.  Will upload another photo when they're done.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 02, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
Here's the finished dish - slightly sweeter tasting than roasted potatoes, but not as much as sweet potatoes.

That half basket-full above made two 13" x 18" pans.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 02, 2018, 03:51:21 PM
Oh!  My goodness!!  What a beautiful feast they would make.  Don't have to ask if you enjoyed them.

How do you keep them contained?  I had some once that threatened to take over the garden and I managed to dig them out (had to), but now regret not stashing a few elsewhere for a new bed.  They are truly a "cash crop" even if you never sell one.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 02, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
I have them in two different locations.  One is in the midst of the henyard surrounded by railroad ties and a fence; the other in a bed in back, separated from other gardens by salvaged stainless steel shelves buried vertically underground, then edged with logs atop black plastic sheeting.  So they're pretty contained!  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 06, 2018, 10:30:00 AM
OTOH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KAZZXSGuNk @ around 16:30

Narrator remarks about how nutritious sunflower shoots are, and it occurs to me that if sunchokes are not in quarantined beds, many volunteers will come up that can be plucked out of unwanted locations and made into a nice salad.  Hope everyone is prepping long-storage high-oleic sunflower oil, & vinegar, or their favorite powdered dressing mix packets - there are a few brands w/o MSG.  If powdered creamy dressings are made up with powdered milk and used more liberally than the label suggests, a few extra grams of protein can be added to what may amount to a lean meal.

(https://weeklyfig.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sunflower-sprouts.jpg)

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/752fe666-5cd2-4f05-8f61-5d6b9c3a401e_1.521aa2797ba1775abe891b4efd650f8e.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/99a3f628-7563-4f07-89f1-86eeabb5a57d_1.fac0a97a05e84745fb7f1fff6e296412.jpeg?odnWidth=undefined&odnHeight=undefined&odnBg=ffffff)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Perpetual Strawberries
Post by: R.R. Book on April 21, 2018, 01:33:22 PM
Corporate strawberry growers and ag extension agencies are fond of advising us that strawberry plants cannot be perpetually grown with any measure of success beyond 2 years for June-bearing varieties or 4 years for everbearing and day-length neutral varieties.

This is false, for those who are willing to expend a little effort to dig up their crowns once a year.  Both types of strawberries are cared for in a similar manner.  I highly recommend covered, raised beds for this crop, in order to save your back and keep wildlife out:

In spring:
*Clean winter debris out of the bed or beds
*Fill a bucket with water
*Lift crowns one at a time out of the soil
*Trim the roots down to a few inches in length
*Trim off old brown runners from last year
*Divide large clumps
*Let trimmed plants soak in the water bucket until ready to replant
*Space them at least 6 inches apart to allow for new growth
*Be prepared with at least one extra bed to plant in, because your crowns will have multiplied.  I got 3 beds from just one so far today.
*Water thoroughly.
*Fertilize with nettle or comfrey tea

During the growing season:
*Water regularly and deeply
*Ignore conventional advice and do allow runners to form - they are your future crops and worth sacrificing a bigger harvest this year
*Keep netting or other cover maintained
*Fertilize with nettle or comfrey tea
*Harvest regularly and don't allow berries to rot in the bed

In late autumn:
*Renew soil fertility with worm castings, leaf mulch or comfrey/nettle tea
*Cover with a permeable layer of plastic wool (such as reusable air filters) or straw before the first hard freeze

(https://i2.wp.com/bonnieplants.com/wp-content/uploads/strawberry-plant-Illustration-web.jpg?ssl=1)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 22, 2018, 02:55:44 PM
Day 2 in the strawberry beds:

Yesterday was focused upon June strawberry beds, and today was focused upon everbearing strawberry beds.  There are two, and only two, varieties of strawberries that I can wholeheartedly recommend in the north: one June bearer and one everbearer.  The best June bearer in my experience is Earliglow, and the best everbearer is Tristar, comparing each one within its own class of berries.

Here is what they have in common that makes them stand out:
*Extreme disease-resistance
*Ability to overwinter
*Excellent flavor

Now, comparing the best in the two classes of berries with each other:
Earliglow's advantages over Tristar:

*Overwinters without protection in winters that get down to zero or even lower
*Robust root system
*Larger berries, but not the Frankenfood size that are so gigantic they seem deformed
*More overwintered daughter plants that survive to be replanted
*Produces heavily in late spring/early summer, when other crops haven't reached production yet

Tristar's advantages over Earliglow:
*Produces over a longer season
*Longer-lived without division

Analysis:
*If the annual lift-trim-replant method is used, as recommended above, the June-bearing Earliglow will live and bear as long as an everbearer, so using that method, everbearers no longer have an exclusive advantage in longevity.

*If we are expecting our winters to become longer and colder, then the June-bearing Earliglow has a big edge over the everbearer, due to its ability to come through a very cold winter without protection, and still present green leaves and a robust root system.

*Rather than discarding my everbearers, I will be more selective and keep only the ones that are most robust.  This will free up room in what have in the past been segregated beds, and daughter plants of the June-bearing Earliglow can be worked into Tristar beds as they become available.  Gradually all of the beds will either contain exclusively Earliglow, or a mixture.  Berries will still be available later in the season, though will become more concentrated in June, with the decline coming on just when other berries are approaching their peak of harvest (wine berries, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, and grapes).

*As winters are expected to become harsher, it may be wise to be pro-active and begin protecting the June-bearers with either straw or plastic wool, as has been done with the everbearers.

https://extension.psu.edu/home-fruit-gardens-table-8-1-strawberry-variety-descriptions
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 22, 2018, 03:34:56 PM
Spring work in the blueberry patch:

*Blueberry bushes need annual soil acidification to enable roots to take up nutrients.  Blueberries can be planted in excellent soil, and still die of malnutrition if the soil pH is not between 4.5 and 5.5.  Rather than traveling to a plant nursery and purchasing commercially-produced Miracid or the equivalent, I suggest making use of low-priced vinegar, which can still even be obtained in $1 stores.  The larger jugs are easier to manage for larger patches.  Apply in early spring around the circumference of the roots around trunks, at about a foot outward from the trunks.  The smell will be gone by the first rain or sooner if watering and mulching deeply over it.

*The previous autumn, raked leaves should have already been piled deeply around the base of the shrubs.  In early spring, it should be done again.  Leaf mulch is 2' deep in our patch as of now, and should be well watered to keep soil moist beneath, as well as preventing leaves from blowing (or from catching fire in the Tribulation).  A fence around the blueberry patch helps to contain the leaf mulch and keep it in place.

*Delicate blossoms begin appearing on the bushes around now, and depending upon the cultivar, may be on them for weeks to come until it is time for the berries to form.  Care needs to be taken when watering not to knock off the blooms, though blueberries are hydrophilic and like to be watered both in the ground and on the leaves (later in summer).

*In a dry season, blueberries need to be given watering priority over other crops except strawberries.  A light spray of the hose is not enough: if in a drought, either a sprinkling system or a concentrated hard stream from the garden hose making drill holes in the ground around the plants is needed, until the roots are flooded.

*Normally, blueberries begin cropping around the summer solstice, with harvest lasting a few weeks.  The past two years, ours have not cropped until July.  As our winters become extended at both ends, consider planting later-blooming and bearing cultivers, extending your harvest even into August, thus avoiding late bud-killing freezes.

*Pruning is optional.  Wait a while yet to determine which branches are really dead and not just late in breaking dormancy. 

*Recently, cultivars have been developed to allow Southern growers to grow blueberries, but watering will need to be carefully considered.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8154/7136606255_c8dc69e091_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 22, 2018, 04:01:44 PM
Follow-up on garden bed covers for 2018:

Have switched from black nylon mesh netting bolts for covering galvanized frames to black fiberglass mesh window screen rolls for durability and protection from the claws of squirrels and hens trying to access the beds, either to eat the produce or lay eggs there...

Cost is 75 cents per foot of 3' wide bolt.  Photo coming soon to show how it hangs.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NJJIIvGjL._AC_US320_.jpg)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 22, 2018, 06:53:39 PM
Follow-up on garden bed covers for 2018:

Have switched from black nylon mesh netting bolts for covering galvanized frames to black fiberglass mesh window screen rolls for durability and protection from the claws of squirrels and hens trying to access the beds, either to eat the produce or lay eggs there...

Cost is 75 cents per foot of 3' wide bolt.  Photo coming soon to show how it hangs.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NJJIIvGjL._AC_US320_.jpg)
Looking forward to seeing this protective netting, as predation seems to be such a big topic, and will eventually affect most gardeners, if not already.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 22, 2018, 06:57:21 PM
Thanks for the strawberry and blueberry reminders.  Learned something this year.  Every year we fight squirrels and crows and whatever else, for the strawberries, and this year will probably be no different.

What we discovered is that for the first time in decades, we had transplanted some strawberries to a raised bed for last year's crop, and just noticed the other day that every single one of them must have died during the winter.  Not a trace of them except dead looking stems, etc.  But the plants in their original bed are already green and are obviously still alive.  Live and learn, eh?  Maybe it was the soil mix being too wimpy? 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 23, 2018, 04:24:05 AM
We had the exact same experience here: strawberries in unprotected galvanized troughs (on the ground) did fine, while strawberries in raised beds, even with rich soil, appeared green when I removed their protective covers this spring, but quickly browned and looked dead.  In most cases, once I trimmed them back to the bare crown and a few inches of roots, I was able to spot a bit of green life trying to bounce back, and am sure that given time I could grow them out.  So, that winter air flowing beneath the beds must set them back.

The raised planting beds may best be left for growing annuals in the future, if winters continue to worsen. 

BTW, I notice that whenever I soak brown looking crowns in a pail of water for several minutes, they often green up a bit. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on April 23, 2018, 08:24:03 PM
Thanks for the strawberry and blueberry reminders.  Learned something this year.  Every year we fight squirrels and crows and whatever else, for the strawberries, and this year will probably be no different.

What we discovered is that for the first time in decades, we had transplanted some strawberries to a raised bed for last year's crop, and just noticed the other day that every single one of them must have died during the winter.  Not a trace of them except dead looking stems, etc.  But the plants in their original bed are already green and are obviously still alive.  Live and learn, eh?  Maybe it was the soil mix being too wimpy?

ilinda - learning something new every time I read your posts. :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Perpetual Strawberries
Post by: Yowbarb on April 23, 2018, 08:24:44 PM
Corporate strawberry growers and ag extension agencies are fond of advising us that strawberry plants cannot be perpetually grown with any measure of success beyond 2 years for June-bearing varieties or 4 years for everbearing and day-length neutral varieties.

This is false, for those who are willing to expend a little effort to dig up their crowns once a year.  Both types of strawberries are cared for in a similar manner.  I highly recommend covered, raised beds for this crop, in order to save your back and keep wildlife out:

In spring:
*Clean winter debris out of the bed or beds
*Fill a bucket with water
*Lift crowns one at a time out of the soil
*Trim the roots down to a few inches in length
*Trim off old brown runners from last year
*Divide large clumps
*Let trimmed plants soak in the water bucket until ready to replant
*Space them at least 6 inches apart to allow for new growth
*Be prepared with at least one extra bed to plant in, because your crowns will have multiplied.  I got 3 beds from just one so far today.
*Water thoroughly.
*Fertilize with nettle or comfrey tea

During the growing season:
*Water regularly and deeply
*Ignore conventional advice and do allow runners to form - they are your future crops and worth sacrificing a bigger harvest this year
*Keep netting or other cover maintained
*Fertilize with nettle or comfrey tea
*Harvest regularly and don't allow berries to rot in the bed

In late autumn:
*Renew soil fertility with worm castings, leaf mulch or comfrey/nettle tea
*Cover with a permeable layer of plastic wool (such as reusable air filters) or straw before the first hard freeze

(https://i2.wp.com/bonnieplants.com/wp-content/uploads/strawberry-plant-Illustration-web.jpg?ssl=1)

R.R. what great info!
Thanks
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Change in garlic planting pattern
Post by: R.R. Book on April 24, 2018, 06:33:37 PM
As many already know, garlic is a plant-and-replant crop that is economical in that small inputs yield large outputs, as a bulb with 10 cloves will create 10 new bulbs if divided and replanted. 

In our area, garlic was always one of the easiest crops to care for: if ten organic bulbs having ten cloves apiece were purchased at a total cost of $5, then divided and planted in well-drained loamy soil in mid-October, 100 garlic plants would be harvested, braided and hung in the pantry nine months later.  Green tops could be trimmed even sooner to be added to stews or saved for later use by chopping and dehydrating or freezing.  Of the 100 bulbs harvested in July, ten would be reserved for replanting for the following year's crop, leaving 90 bulbs or 900 cloves to store in the pantry.  Elegantly simple multiplication.

However, longer and wetter winters have changed all that in our location.  The last four winters have left us with entirely or mostly vanished garlic crops by spring, having rotted in the ground under mounds of melting snow.  The game has clearly changed, leaving two courses of action open to us: either build a greenhouse, or wait until spring to begin planting, which means harvesting at an odd time.  If planting can possibly be done in March, harvesting could be done in November.  You can see how drastically that changes the old traditional planting calendar.  October to July versus March to November.

So part of our response to the changes that are coming upon us needs to be careful observation of new weather trends and adaptation to them as quickly as possible, regardless of long-held traditions.  And there is every possibility that with the coming pole shift, we may need to adjust our adaptations yet again until the weather settles down into a reliable routine.

(http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/Bulletins/braidGarlic1.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 24, 2018, 07:48:14 PM
Thanks for the strawberry and blueberry reminders.  Learned something this year.  Every year we fight squirrels and crows and whatever else, for the strawberries, and this year will probably be no different.

What we discovered is that for the first time in decades, we had transplanted some strawberries to a raised bed for last year's crop, and just noticed the other day that every single one of them must have died during the winter.  Not a trace of them except dead looking stems, etc.  But the plants in their original bed are already green and are obviously still alive.  Live and learn, eh?  Maybe it was the soil mix being too wimpy?

ilinda - learning something new every time I read your posts. :)
You're too kind.  Truth is, I've been growing stuff since about 7 or 8 years old, beginning as mom's little helper, and still every single year since then I wonder how many things I'll learn, cuz the more I know, the more I realize I DON'T know. 

Just learned last year (!!!) that lima beans produce till frost, just growing and flowering and growing....on and on. But by growing them in same row as Cherokee Trail of Tears bean, I noticed the Cherokee beans have a finite life span, regardless of fact that it's still warm.  They grow, then they die.  That is that.  On one end of row were lush, green vines full of lima pods, and on other end were brown and crisp, dead Cherokee vines, having spent their energy.  Very interesting, and it took decades to learn something so simple.  LOL LOL
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2018, 04:04:52 AM
Great observations Ilinda!  Isn't the garden the grandest laboratory?  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 25, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
Great observations Ilinda!  Isn't the garden the grandest laboratory?  :)
It is one of the very best learning tools.  Ever.  It's also about survival.

Now regarding your garlic losses, I'm truly sorry, and you're not the first to discuss this topic.  Two different friends, unbeknownst to each other, have had the very same experience in the past several years.

This past winter, and now spring, our farmer friend, Shirley, lost her entire garlic crop and she has no idea why.  She said after carefully examining the bed and the remnants of the plants, it appears they just rotted in place.  Another friend wasn't sure if they rotted or something helped them along, but the evidence strongly pointed to rotting in place.

It IS very different now and you're correct in that this transition from what was, to what will be, is going to be rough.  This is where people really need fellow growers with whom we can share seed stocks.

Do you think your garlic rotted to too much moisture?  Not enough?  Wrong soil mix?  Something else?  Shirley and I've tried to figure out why hers died but year before they didn't.  She does rotate beds, so it's not a matter of totally depleted soil.  The winter from which we just emerged was the absolutely longest winter I can ever remember, and it's still hanging on, keeping temp's from rising to normal (whatever that is anymore).  Possibly her garlic were expecting a warmup two months earlier than now.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2018, 12:14:43 PM
Thanks for comparing notes Ilinda.  I'm pretty certain that the crop losses have been due to much snowier winters.  When it snows here, unless it's in April, the snow cover can remain in place for a lengthy period of time, melting very slowly and preventing air and light from reaching the beds.  So in actuality, it may not be the moisture as much as the lack of air circulation that's rotting the crops, as frequent rains in summer are harmless to such water-hogging plants.  The rotting removes all but traces of the bulbs, necks and leaves, ironically with a robust root system remaining that's difficult to dig out when re-working the beds. :(

I don't suspect disease this year, due to new beds, new soil, and half a dozen healthy surviving plants that somehow didn't rot.

I did replant yesterday, as last year, and hope for a decent harvest around Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 26, 2018, 12:06:11 PM
Thanks for comparing notes Ilinda.  I'm pretty certain that the crop losses have been due to much snowier winters.  When it snows here, unless it's in April, the snow cover can remain in place for a lengthy period of time, melting very slowly and preventing air and light from reaching the beds.  So in actuality, it may not be the moisture as much as the lack of air circulation that's rotting the crops, as frequent rains in summer are harmless to such water-hogging plants.  The rotting removes all but traces of the bulbs, necks and leaves, ironically with a robust root system remaining that's difficult to dig out when re-working the beds. :(

I don't suspect disease this year, due to new beds, new soil, and half a dozen healthy surviving plants that somehow didn't rot.

I did replant yesterday, as last year, and hope for a decent harvest around Thanksgiving.
Lucky for us, it hardly ever snows much anymore so my sympathies go to you.

Here's a thought though.  My friend lost her entire crop as did you (almost).  This past year I planted garlic a bit later than usual, and not by some great plan--it just didn't happen due to trying to squeeze too much into each day, so finally IIRC it was actually in early November.  I'll look and verify that.  But know it was late.  I'm actually wondering if garlic will need to be planted later now than in the past.

Years ago I used to plant garlic in September, but now--never.  It's still usually too warm.  Now I never plant before October, but there have been about three times where I planted in November, and one in December due to wildlife decimating the crop, so I replanted in December and still managed to get a crop the following June.  So, am wondering, thinking out loud..is it possible that in a very long winter as this past one, that all that growth that usually takes place in October, November, where the green garlic leaves shoot up, only to die back for several months, was for naught? 

I don't have the answers, but keep remembering what one of the two guys taught in a "Garlic Workshop" I attended about 10 years ago at Seed Savers Exchange in Decorah, Iowa.  The guys teaching it were from far north of here, like Wisconsin.  And they talked about planting garlic in November, which shocked me.  I could not then, or now, imagine being that far north, in so much colder clime, and planting garlic that late.

Now it is starting to make sense.  Maybe when they plant it, they know it will likely be basically dormant to our eyes, but undergoing some slow changes that won't manifest until spring.  Maybe the garlic grown in Wisconsin doesn't send up the early green shoots of late fall or early winter?  Food for thought at least.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 26, 2018, 12:18:02 PM
Ilinda, your musings are making me wonder if winter garlic might be fine in the ground, but with a covering over it to prevent it from becoming water-logged. 

Of course, there could be animals munching on it as a starvation ration as well... :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Dual-Purpose Chores
Post by: R.R. Book on April 28, 2018, 12:40:48 PM
One of the key principles of Northern Permaculture is that everything we do, regardless of the season, is geared to surviving the following winter - even if we've just dug ourselves out from beneath the previous winter and the "W" word makes us cringe.  With that in mind, some of the spring chores on the homestead may fulfill more than one purpose at a time.

In order to get the bee nectary ready for spring, one of our annual chores is cleaning up the phlox patch, an amorphous roughly 6 x 6' bed that has been allowed to shape itself for around 15 years.  As many gardeners know, that means deadheading last year's 5' tall canes in a thatch of plants that are already showing near-knee high regrowth. 

Breaking the canes at about the height of the regrowth, after first scattering remaining seeds to oversow the patch and allow it to continue extending itself, will reinforce the patch against wind and animals.  The broken canes are then further snapped in half to a size that would fit easily into the woodstove as kindling for the coming autumn, so nothing is wasted.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 28, 2018, 07:28:16 PM
It looks so homey!  So inviting!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 30, 2018, 05:22:38 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Permaculture Design Zones
Post by: R.R. Book on April 30, 2018, 05:24:17 PM
(http://i0.wp.com/www.permaculturedesigncourse.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/afristar-permaculture-posters1.jpg?resize=570%2C350)

(http://trybackyardfarming.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/permaculture-zones3.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Composting worms
Post by: R.R. Book on May 06, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
Earthworms, especially a particular red strain (Eisenia fetida) used for composting bins, are  beneficial to keep on the homestead.  They convert non-acidic fruit and veggie scraps, as well as dead leaves, into worm castings, a rich source of fertilizer that can be used straight without decomposition and without burning crops. 

(http://sanctuarysoil.com/wp-content/uploads/worm-castings-closeup2.jpg)
The little yellow balls in this batch of worm castings are some of the worm eggs, and should be sifted out and conserved before the rest is used on the garden.

I like to keep worm housing near the kitchen door and raised planter beds on the north side of the deck, as the worms prefer shade in summer.  In the north, the red species of worms need to be brought into the root cellar in winter.

Here's an example of a worm house that was built by a craftsman on Etsy.  The stackable boxes have screened bottoms, allowing worms to move upward for feeding and downward for nesting.  He had added the pitched roof by special request:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/582243758/homemade-wood-worm-bin-4-tray?ref=shop_home_active_3

Amazingly, this one has been through several years of Nor'easters and tropical storms, and has never blown over.  Am guessing the little nook may have protected it. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 06, 2018, 11:49:10 AM
I had promised a photo or two showing how the heavier-weight fiberglass screen cloth hangs on raised beds.  The drapes fold back easily for access to crops.  I've only covered the front and back openings of the arches, leaving the wider-grid hardware cloth on top open for pollinators.

The second photo shows how the cloth shades delicate plants from direct sun.  A more clever person than I probably could have figured out a better way of attaching the whole canopy, but I just happened to have a lot of binder clips on hand  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 07, 2018, 05:55:05 PM
Gorgeous little beds and they will surely foil birds and others preying on your crops.  Every single year I go through this with planting peanuts.  I've planted, then placed chicken wire over the bed, hardware cloth, sheer curtain material, row cover fabric, and who knows what all.  Some years are better than others, but it's not in a raised bed, which means it's right on the ground.

But one advantage is that the crows don't usually go under the covers, and rabbits cannot get into garden.  Still the smell of fresh peanuts is irresistible to some little creatures.

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 08, 2018, 03:24:52 PM
 :) :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 13, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94EMsC5WuE

@ around 22:40, narrator makes an interesting comment:
Quote
The nutrient density in food that you grow yourself is going to be much, much higher than anything in the supermarket, even in the organic section, and that is proven based on testing...Specifically Rodale Institute did the testing.  From your 5 sugar snap peas that you went outside and ate, you probably got more nutrition than you'd had in days.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/sugar-snap-pea-22939438.jpg)

Quote
Growing my own food makes me feel like a whole person.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Extending the growing season
Post by: R.R. Book on May 13, 2018, 12:52:09 PM
Same film gives a rationale for erecting an unheated greenhouse using Climate Battery Technology:

Three ways to do it:
A. Insulate the foundation 3 or 4 feet down

B. Dig a series of 3 or 4 feet trenches in the floor of the greenhouse and bury black 6" corrugated drainage pipe, which costs $50-$80 for a 100', which covers 100'2 of greenhouse floor.  Place a 100 watt, 1/2 amp solar fan on the ground in the greenhouse which will circulate heat from the ceiling back down to the floor, keeping the interior 5-10oF warmer at night, lengthening the growing season and increasing crop yields.  The fan will work even under cloud cover.  If on a slim budget, it is possible to source an old computer hard-drive cooling fan from Ebay for $1 and re-purpose it.  Make sure and get an outdated 4" one rather than a modern miniaturized one.

C. Fill the greenhouse with thermal mass in lieu of deep digging and rigging up a circulating fan.  Can either be done with a heat sink pond at the rear that takes up 20% of the floor space, or by filling black barrels with water in the spring.  The water is allowed to build up heat over summer that lasts into autumn and beyond, maintaining a constant temperature of around 70o F.  If the barrels are left open on top, fish can be raised in the tanks, and their waste products diluted in the water then can be used to water plants in the greenhouse.  If tanks have a low drainage spigot, the effluent can be flushed out at the bottom without disturbing the fish at the top.  Aquatic plants such as duckweed and water hyacinth can be floated on top that are both edible and medicinal.

*Even with no heat source, all three greenhouse types will still be several degrees warmer than outside, enough to raise temperature by 3-5 zones warmer than where you actually are.

*Crops are protected from hail and wind (Note: they are also protected from ice, which kills greens more than cold does).

*Tomatoes will have that extra night-time warmth necessary to ripen

*For a total investment of $1,000 you have a climate system that never deteriorates and can be moved around and reused.

Even without a greenhouse, some crops such as brassicas and greens, can withstand temperatures down below 20 degrees without damage if just a cloth is thrown over them.

Photo below of closed black water barrels used for thermal mass: https://midwestpermaculture.com/2013/10/year-round-greenhouse-2/:
(https://midwestpermaculture.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Greenhouse-with-Water-Barrel-Thermal-Mass-640x477.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 13, 2018, 07:18:19 PM
Quote
Growing my own food makes me feel like a whole person.
That is so true!  Just last night in episode 4 or 5 of the Longevity series, they mentioned this very topic and how even organic food from grocery strores has often been chlorine washed, etc., etc., and your best and freshest food is what you grow.  Thanks!  We needed that reminder.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Extending the growing season
Post by: ilinda on May 13, 2018, 07:20:25 PM
Same film gives a rationale for erecting an unheated greenhouse using Climate Battery Technology:

Three ways to do it:
A. Insulate the foundation 3 or 4 feet down

B. Dig a series of 3 or 4 feet trenches in the floor of the greenhouse and bury black 6" corrugated drainage pipe, which costs $50-$80 for a 100', which covers 100'2 of greenhouse floor.  Place a 100 watt, 1/2 amp solar fan on the ground in the greenhouse which will circulate heat from the ceiling back down to the floor, keeping the interior 5-10oF warmer at night, lengthening the growing season and increasing crop yields.  The fan will work even under cloud cover.  If on a slim budget, it is possible to source an old computer hard-drive cooling fan from Ebay for $1 and re-purpose it.  Make sure and get an outdated 4" one rather than a modern miniaturized one.

C. Fill the greenhouse with thermal mass in lieu of deep digging and rigging up a circulating fan.  Can either be done with a heat sink pond at the rear that takes up 20% of the floor space, or by filling black barrels with water in the spring.  The water is allowed to build up heat over summer that lasts into autumn and beyond, maintaining a constant temperature of around 70o F.  If the barrels are left open on top, fish can be raised in the tanks, and their waste products diluted in the water then can be used to water plants in the greenhouse.  If tanks have a low drainage spigot, the effluent can be flushed out at the bottom without disturbing the fish at the top.  Aquatic plants such as duckweed and water hyacinth can be floated on top that are both edible and medicinal.

*Even with no heat source, all three greenhouse types will still be several degrees warmer than outside, enough to raise temperature by 3-5 zones warmer than where you actually are.

*Crops are protected from hail and wind (Note: they are also protected from ice, which kills greens more than cold does).

*Tomatoes will have that extra night-time warmth necessary to ripen

*For a total investment of $1,000 you have a climate system that never deteriorates and can be moved around and reused.

Even without a greenhouse, some crops such as brassicas and greens, can withstand temperatures down below 20 degrees without damage if just a cloth is thrown over them.

Photo below of closed black water barrels used for thermal mass: https://midwestpermaculture.com/2013/10/year-round-greenhouse-2/:
(https://midwestpermaculture.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Greenhouse-with-Water-Barrel-Thermal-Mass-640x477.jpg)
This idea is something we should all be considering, in one form or another.  With the weather and climate anomalies, nobody knows if we will have another "normal" year in the foreseeable future, even for the very young.  Things are changing.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 14, 2018, 05:03:57 AM
What is the Longevity series Ilinda?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 15, 2018, 06:12:16 PM
What is the Longevity series Ilinda?
https://humanlongevityfilm.com/

It started May 8 and should finish tomorrow.  They usually run these series a couple of times, but you almost have to binge-watch just to get it all.  But it's FREE.  They always offer the opportunity to buy the series, and I did with the Vaccines Revealed, as well as The Truth About Cancer series.

These sets of series seem to be produced by different outfits, but they all seem to have ties to all the holistic health websites, so can be found through Dr. Mercola, Mike Adams, Greenmedinfo.com, etc.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 15, 2018, 06:25:48 PM
Thanks Ilinda!  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Wood ash for the garden
Post by: R.R. Book on May 16, 2018, 11:31:21 AM
One of the most frugal chores on the homestead is transferring wood stove ashes to the garden, essentially utilizing firewood twice.  Bio-char from bonfires can also be used.

Hardwoods are more nutrient-dense than softwoods (conifers).  We limit softwood or fatwood to kindling, as it does contain flammable resin that can lead to a creosote fire in the chimney if burned disproportionately.  For that purpose, we have a compost pile just for Christmas trees, and the tree that was added to the pile last January becomes kindling for the following autumn and winter, having dropped its needles and seasoned several months outdoors.  By October, the branches are ready to be cut into pieces suitable for the kindling basket.

Here is a table of nutrients in wood ash, with micro-nutrients varying according to species:
(https://www.paceturf.org/images/gallery/071029_ash.png)

Ash can be used to top-dress most vegetables or worked into the soil, but shouldn't be used on acid-loving crops such as most fruits, especially berries.  It is also not used on potatoes, as the higher pH may cause scab.

Wood ash for agricultural purpose has a calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) component, which varies from 25-59 percent (https://extension.umaine.edu/publications/2279e/). Calcium carbonate has a pH value of 9.4.  This puts ash in a similar soil amendment category as horticultural lime.  It's recommended to rotate every year where the ashes are added in the garden, so that soil is kept below a neutral pH of 7, with 6.5 being considered ideal for most vegetable crops.

Wood ash obviously needs to be thoroughly cooled down before being used, and a good place to conserve batches of it safely is in an old cast iron dutch oven, which is periodically emptied onto the garden when weather permits. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Jimfarmer on May 16, 2018, 08:13:34 PM
Quote
One of the most frugal chores on the homestead is transferring wood stove ashes to the garden, essentially utilizing firewood twice.  Bio-char from bonfires can also be used.

I once read that a mixture of wood ash and urine makes a perfect fertilizer.  No ratios were stated.  Anyone have technical details?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 17, 2018, 04:02:24 AM
I'm glad you brought it up, because I forgot to include the NPK ratio: 0-1-3.

So I can see how urine would add the N and balance the formula. 

Jim, if you're a professional farmer, we need to learn more from you!  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 17, 2018, 10:18:00 AM
Quote
One of the most frugal chores on the homestead is transferring wood stove ashes to the garden, essentially utilizing firewood twice.  Bio-char from bonfires can also be used.

I once read that a mixture of wood ash and urine makes a perfect fertilizer.  No ratios were stated.  Anyone have technical details?
It sounds reasonable and just think--those are two things we all can access.  Even if we find no technical details, we can experiment on small parts of a bed, so as to compare it with the "control bed".
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 18, 2018, 05:34:58 AM
Quote
Quote from: R.R. Book on May 14, 2018, 05:03:57 AM

    What is the Longevity series Ilinda?

https://humanlongevityfilm.com/

It started May 8 and should finish tomorrow.  They usually run these series a couple of times, but you almost have to binge-watch just to get it all.  But it's FREE.  They always offer the opportunity to buy the series, and I did with the Vaccines Revealed, as well as The Truth About Cancer series.

Ilinda, I'll start a separate thread about this, as it seems too important to let lapse here.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 26, 2018, 02:47:08 PM
Table comparing algae pond water as a garden fertilizer with other organic inputs:

(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305450259/figure/fig1/AS:391520856363012@1470357254737/Effects-of-fertilizer-rates-on-plant-height.png)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Effects-of-fertilizer-rates-on-plant-height_fig1_305450259

Please see also:
http://www.imedpub.com/articles/role-of-blue-green-algae-in-paddy-crop.pdf

https://sciencing.com/role-algae-agriculture-8617202.html

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 04, 2018, 10:14:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJLY-yXOYE

around 2:00

Estimating food garden water needs.  Narrator says a minimum of 200'2 of garden space is needed to feed a family, or about 6x the size of the garden in the diagram below (so 6x the water usage).

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 04, 2018, 06:14:35 PM
http://urbanhomestead.org/

Am guessing some are already familiar with the wonderful Dervaes family that have been homesteading on a 1/5 acre lot in the middle of Pasadena for decades?

(http://urbanhomestead.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/urban-homestead-backyard.jpg)

The actual garden only takes up 1/10 of an acre, as the house is on the remainder.  That's 3900'2, or roughly the equivalent of 66' x 66'.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/XthnDr9aUctfhxfU24/giphy.gif)

Statistics:

*The 1/10 acre plot organically grows 400 species of edible plants

*They have increased their annual harvest from 6,000 pounds to 7,000 pounds

*They raise 90% of their produce at an annual savings of $75,000 for a family of 4

*60% is consumed, 30% is sold, and 10% is fed to livestock

*They raise $20,000 gross in annual sales to local restaurants, as well as a CSA box program and a front porch farm stand.

*They are lacto-ovo vegetarians

*They eat on $2 per day per person

Quote
Growing food is one of the most dangerous occupations on the face of this earth, because you are in danger of becoming free.
~Julian Dervaes, head of the family

(https://media.giphy.com/media/AFK13F3tZNOTK0A3Sl/giphy.gif)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCmTJkZy0rM&sns=tw

(http://loveforlife.com.au/files/ResizedPathToFreedom.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 04, 2018, 08:01:44 PM
Thanks for reminding us.  They were written up in Mother Earth News a few years ago and were as impressive then, as now!  Amazing family and incredible commitment to sustainability and self-sufficiency.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 04, 2018, 08:21:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJLY-yXOYE

around 2:00

Estimating food garden water needs.  Narrator says a minimum of 200'2 of garden space is needed to feed a family, or about 6x the size of the garden in the diagram below (so 6x the water usage).
We've covered the issue before, probably elsewhere on PXTH, of watering the garden, but it's definitely worth another mention.  For some years now I've adopted a new method of watering, where I water the seeds and seedlings generously while small, but not till soggy.  In other words, keep the newly emerging seeds and seedlings moist but now drowning.

Once established, no longer water them.  Unless you are in a horrific drought, they will find the water they need.  This does work.  For example with squash, notice how on those especially hot days, that the leaves droop down so low, they appear to be dying.  But the next morning they are perked back up.

The way to know about squash, and presumably other crops, is that if they are still drooped down low the following morning, then they DO need water.  What happens when you withhold regular watering, is that the plant will send roots down deeper and deeper to find the needed moisture.  Not watering regularly will actually make the plants more resiliant.

And if a drought or mini-drought comes your way, make a slight trench parallel to rows of crop, but about 1-2' away.  Water in that trench will be available to the roots of the adjacent, thirsty plants.

This may not work for all, especially those who live basically on sand, such as St. Pete, FL, or those who are so neurotic they cannot mentally accept the possibility of withholding water from a plant!

This year I'm growing three varieties of corn.  The first, Tohono O'odham, a 60-day flour corn I watered when it was planted, and that is the first and last time it will receive any water from me.   The second and third varieties, I did not water, even when planting, as I plan to allow rainwater to provide what is needed, assuming rains will be normal this year.  Update to follow.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 05, 2018, 04:33:13 AM
Quote
those who are so neurotic they cannot mentally accept the possibility of withholding water from a plant

 ;)

I planted some of the Yamiken seeds that you sent me Ilinda, and will try practicing your insight of not watering unless they are wilted in the morning, especially as curcubits generally struggle with mildew in our moist climate.  Of course we've had torrential rains so far this season, and water may not be an issue here as much as elsewhere.

Good luck with your corn!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 06, 2018, 05:41:20 PM
Quote
those who are so neurotic they cannot mentally accept the possibility of withholding water from a plant

 ;)

I planted some of the Yamiken seeds that you sent me Ilinda, and will try practicing your insight of not watering unless they are wilted in the morning, especially as curcubits generally struggle with mildew in our moist climate.  Of course we've had torrential rains so far this season, and water may not be an issue here as much as elsewhere.

Good luck with your corn!
Today we cut into our last Yamiken and it was definitely still good.  The one before this was still sweet, but had begun to get a bit of toughness.  By this time of year, they are nearly one year old! 

Another point, which I may have mentioned before is that even if you like to mulch your garden plants, Yamiken is one that does better without mulch for the simple reason that if you begin to reach for the squash bugs, they will immediately drop downward and move under the mulch and you'll never find them.  For that reason I resist the urge to thickly mulch, as I do with tomatoes and peppers (when time permits).

Last but not least, probably repeating myself again, the best cooking method is sliced into wedges, and in an olive oiled cast iron skillet, uncovered, at 250 deg. F.   We use a little toaster oven.  After about two hours at 250 deg. F., uncovered, then carefully turn each wedge over and bake another 15-30 min at 200-250.  The goal is to get them to caramelize a bit for that last 15-30 min.  (The beauty of the long cooking time is you start them and just walk away for several hours--I've even left them on for three hours on occasion.)

Pics attached show our very last one.  It's like being an empty-nester when the last one leaves.....  LOL
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 06, 2018, 07:17:00 PM
How luscious the slices look! 

Empty nest - ha ha!  ;)

Will follow your advice and not mulch. 

BTW, I was amazed to see that a couple of "wild" curcubits have come up on their own in the woods, apparently after overwintering, and I'm very eager to see exactly what kind they turn out to be.  Any curcubit seeds surviving the winter that we just pulled through must be pretty tough indeed!  Will keep you informed...
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 07, 2018, 08:02:20 PM
And one last piece of info. which I probably have also repeated ad nauseum (!), is that the Yamiken are ready when the stems have turned from green to dried-brown.  This is the longest season squash I've ever grown because it seems to take forever for the female flowers to arrive.  It seems for weeks and weeks all I see are male flowers, then all of a sudden, the females appear, and I always worry that they won't have time to make fruit. 

If you do get an early frost and the fruits do not have brown stems, or are still green, just bring them indoors and wait till they properly turn.  It might take several months, as this is the slowest squash ever!  But they are worth it.  I proved to myself last year that bringing green fruit indoors and letting them ripen on their own can still give sweet squash.  Before we had to experience it, I always thought they'd be only slightly sweet and compromised.  But the wait is worth it.  It's even better though if they can totally ripen on the vine.

Whew.  Will stop lecturing now!  LOL
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 08, 2018, 08:28:18 AM
Thanks for the detailed information Ilinda.  Am hoping that our growing season will be long enough even to produce the unripe squash.  If our first frost, which normally comes in the 2nd week of October, comes any earlier, the Yamiken may not have time to switch from making male blossoms to female ones.  Will report back!  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 08, 2018, 11:18:26 AM
We may be jockeying for pole position to see who even gets female flowers!  I'm having the strangest time getting them in the ground.  The first ones got too cold and all rotted or just died.  Second planting took forever, and am now on 3rd and 4th plantings, some in pots, some in the ground.

Some in pots were actually dug up because the bed didn't seem like good enough soil, etc.  Growing one's own food is really challenging!

We can update each other as time permits.  My best guess is that when you see first blossoms, they'll be male, and that will continue for 2-4 weeks before you see females.  At any rate, even the green fruits, if taken indoors, will eventually ripen.

I read somewhere that the reason for the huge preponderance of first-male fruits is to attract the pollinators to the patch.  If the "aroma parcel of air" extends out enough, it will surely be noticed by the appropriate pollinators and they will then visit the squash patch, by which time the female flowers are beginning to appear.

I never gave a lot of thought to any of this until we started growing Yamiken.  Everything was taken for granted, whether it was butternut, zucchini, yellow crookneck, etc., but now with this fruit, I feel it is too important to "let it go".
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 08, 2018, 06:25:52 PM
Quote
Growing one's own food is really challenging!

That's a good sub-topic starter: Which crops are easiest for novice gardeners, and which require more experience (meaning some risk of crop failure)?

Ideas for the Northern gardener:

No Experience Needed:
Potatoes: Sunchokes
Greens: Dandelion
Berries: Shrub - dwarf raspberries, tree - mulberry, ground cover - strawberries
Legumes: Siberian peas; pole beans to climb sunchokes (plant-and-replant)
Stone fruits: Tart cherries
Alliums: Chives, walking onions, Welsh onions, garlic
Tomatoes: Cherry tomatoes can be container-grown and overwintered as perennials indoors
Peppers: Dwarf ones could be container-grown and overwintered as perennials indoors
Grain: Good King Henry (an amaranth)
Radishes: Rapidly grown both as food and for soil aeration and tillage as prep for other crops
Apiaceae (parsley, celery): Lovage
Vine: Hardy Kiwi
Other: Asparagus


Experience Helpful, and Why:
*Curcubits (pumpkins, squash, gourds):
All are potentially subject to fungus in the north; vining types require lots of space; many are subject to squash vine borer; beds must be rotated every year unless special soil amendments are made.

Other stone fruit trees and nut trees:
Need to research carefully to learn:
Which are disease resistant; which need two different cultivars; which come on dwarfing rootstock suitable for smaller homesteads; best methods of annual pruning; which are winter hardy; which have longevity, which  need a lot of water; which don't like much rain.  Can be a long wait for production.  Trunks need early protection from rodents, and constant protection from deer.  May need annual removal by hand of moth larvae nests to prevent mass defoliation.  Some cultivars may bear only every other year.

Grapes: Need to research carefully to learn:
Which are suitable geographically; which are seedless; which are disease-resistant; which are winter-hardy.  Some need to be pruned frequently; may need a hormone supplement to help clusters fill in well.  Can be a long wait for production.  Physical supports needed, such as a fence.

Brassicas: Subject to club root infection unless kept in very well-drained soil. Need lots of room.  Cabbages must be shielded from cabbage fly and cabbage moth larvae.  A few cultivars are perennial, but require special ordering from limited suppliers, some of which may not be in your country.  These sell out quickly, and rootstock may need to be ordered months ahead of time and pre-paid.

Non-bitter greens: Spinach and lettuce bolt as soon as it gets warm, meaning they'll send up a flower stalk and die.

Blueberries: Require very acidic soil with at least annual amendments.  Should not be planted near a butterfly garden, as their larvae will feast on the leaves.  Need to be faster than the birds to get any of the harvest.  Water hogs. 

Currants:  Need to carefully research new disease-resistant cultivars. 

Artichokes: Best grown in a limited coastal climate; need lots of room

Potatoes: Subject to diseases; hill culture needs to be built up; require lots of space to feed a family; rootstock needs to be overwintered in special indoor conditions.

Corn: Requires careful sourcing of non-GMO seed for all but popcorn; cultivars need distance apart or succession planting; large space requirement; bed rotation requirement.

Watermelons: Nearly all types are subject to diseases and come with this warning on seed packets now.

Vining tomatoes: Subject to diseases, and seem to alternate between good and bad years in the North.  In a good year they can be prolific.

Suggestion: Dedicate the most space in the garden to failure-proof crops, and then perform limited experiments every year to see what else you can add.

Other ideas?

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/basket-of-produce-michael-moriarty.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 15, 2018, 07:13:41 AM
While waiting for most of the berries to finish ripening in the North, there are mulberry trees all over the place - at the edge of woodlands and in public parks - that are heavily laden with fruit that is dropping all over the ground.  One need not own a mulberry tree to take home a bag or container-full. 

(https://goodhealthall.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Nutrition-Chart-of-Mulberries.jpg)

Phytochemicals:
(http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ru1iLXXXXXXbXpXX760XFXXXg/200936636/HTB1ru1iLXXXXXXbXpXX760XFXXXg.png)
https://borneoscobhd.en.ec21.com/Freeze_Dried_Mulberry_Antioxidant_Berry--8956654_10013726.html

Smoothie Recipe from Pinterest:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/e8/c0/76e8c038a699c2caf65062494b2f055e.jpg)



Nutritional Completeness Profile from NutritionData:
Quote
Each spoke in the wheel represents a different nutrient. The spoke for dietary fiber is colored green, protein is blue, vitamins are purple, minerals are white, and yellow represents a group of commonly overconsumed nutrients—saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 15, 2018, 08:22:38 PM
While waiting for most of the berries to finish ripening in the North, there are mulberry trees all over the place - at the edge of woodlands and in public parks - that are heavily laden with fruit that is dropping all over the ground.  One need not own a mulberry tree to take home a bag or container-full. 

(https://goodhealthall.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Nutrition-Chart-of-Mulberries.jpg)

Phytochemicals:
(http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ru1iLXXXXXXbXpXX760XFXXXg/200936636/HTB1ru1iLXXXXXXbXpXX760XFXXXg.png)
https://borneoscobhd.en.ec21.com/Freeze_Dried_Mulberry_Antioxidant_Berry--8956654_10013726.html

Smoothie Recipe from Pinterest:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/e8/c0/76e8c038a699c2caf65062494b2f055e.jpg)



Nutritional Completeness Profile from NutritionData:
Quote
Each spoke in the wheel represents a different nutrient. The spoke for dietary fiber is colored green, protein is blue, vitamins are purple, minerals are white, and yellow represents a group of commonly overconsumed nutrients—saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium.
Are your wild mulberries the ones commonly found throughout the U.S. in the wild?  A friend has an unusual mulberry tree with a growth habit totally different from that of the wild ones, which are tall, lanky, and not overly laden with fruit.  But friend's tree is shorter, with very dense canopy, and loaded with berries that are longer and sweeter than those wild ones.

We've tried about everything to get starts from her tree, with little success, and wish we knew more about it.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 16, 2018, 06:30:35 AM
Hi Ilinda,

The only deliberately cultivated mulberry that we have is a dwarf variety.  The wild mulberries that I've seen around here all grow on the edge of the woods and mostly on the edge of a stream located in a flood plain, in part-sun & part-shade.  They have fruited heavily this year, probably because we've had more rain than sun this spring.  Their production is very much tied to water availability.  And yes, the wild berries are shorter and black when ripe, unlike the red or white cultivars.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 19, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
I've mentioned the German non-bitter dandelions previously, which are really mostly less-bitter when not at their largest, from my own experience. 

The Canadian non-bolting perpetual sorrel (called "Profusion Sorrel" developed by Richter's), which had thrived in my garden for several years, finally failed to come back when I placed it in the hen-yard "salad bar:" a raised bed with wide-holed wire fencing across the top which permits grazing without clawing. 

(https://www.richters.com/Web_store/Html/Images/X5683.jpg)
https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X5683&show=all&prodclass=&cart_id=5759694.20190

I followed-up instead by filling the bed with the German dandelions (from Oikos Tree Crops in Michigan). 

(https://oikostreecrops.com/products/image/cache/data/1022_3-500x500a.jpg)
https://oikostreecrops.com/products/perennial-vegetable-plants/perennial-edible-nutrient-dense-greens/dandelion-nouvelle-volherzigen/

After allowing poultry to freely graze it for 2 days, the plants were reduced down to their spines, with a little green fringe remaining.  I fertilized the bed with pond water and draped it with the heavy fiberglass window screencloth, and it bounced completely back a week or so later.  The screencloth can be folded back to allow grazing again any time, and then the bed covered afterward for a quick regrowth.

Will post a photo of the "salad bar" soon.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 21, 2018, 02:22:37 PM
Very cool way to allow chickens to graze on new growth, plus presumably have some greens for yourselves as well.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 21, 2018, 03:22:12 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 27, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
I had promised to upload a photo of the German non-bitter dandelion "salad bar" in the henyard, and here it is.  This bed was an old raised-leg cedar planter that was flipped upside-down to provide the posts for the fiberglass screencloth covering.  There are inverted screw hooks (facing down) surrounding the top on all sides to pull the wire mesh taut when grazing is permitted (photo does not show it taut), which prevents poultry from damaging plants down at the crown and root level.  The wire had been snipped inside the 4 corners to accommodate the posts, providing more strength when pulled down over them.  The front section of screencloth folds back easily to allow hens on top of the grazing grid. 

I lined the bottom with flat paving stones, spaced a bit for drainage, to prevent burrowing critters from tunneling their way up from below ground, as we once lost a bed of skirret (perennial carrots) in that location for that reason.  :(
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 28, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
I had promised to upload a photo of the German non-bitter dandelion "salad bar" in the henyard, and here it is.  This bed was an old raised-leg cedar planter that was flipped upside-down to provide the posts for the fiberglass screencloth covering.  There are inverted screw hooks (facing down) surrounding the top on all sides to pull the wire mesh taut when grazing is permitted (photo does not show it taut), which prevents poultry from damaging plants down at the crown and root level.  The wire had been snipped inside the 4 corners to accommodate the posts, providing more strength when pulled down over them.  The front section of screencloth folds back easily to allow hens on top of the grazing grid. 

I lined the bottom with flat paving stones, spaced a bit for drainage, to prevent burrowing critters from tunneling their way up from below ground, as we once lost a bed of skirret (perennial carrots) in that location for that reason.  :(
How often do you allow chickens to access their salad bar?  It appears the bottom wire has approx. 1" X 2" openings?  Is that a type of welded wire?  Is that part of the rodent protection?  Or is that there because it was on top when the unit was a planter?
Thanks for showing this clever and useful farm tool!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 28, 2018, 04:31:11 PM
Yes, you're correct about the 1x2 welded fence wire, which is very easy to cut and shape.  Besides keeping poultry away from roots and crowns, it also discourages wildlife, while the under-bed paving stones discourage burrowing rodents.  It would not be impossible for critters still to get into the top part, but they tend to be more attracted to other produce than dandelion greens!

How often to graze depends upon how heavily to graze.  When I turned the bed over to  the poultry for 2 whole days, the "salad bar" became depleted and needed to be allowed to recover for maybe 2 weeks, so one single such bed should be regarded as an occasional diversion in the pen, rather than as being a regular dietary staple. 

If you want more regular use, it would be better to harvest a handful of the leaves daily or a few times a week, as a green supplement in their morning or evening mash, and even better as part of a whole range of gleanings from the garden.

Alternatively, one could build more beds or larger beds, space permitting.  We let our hens out of the henyard fence to forage so often, that it hasn't been a priority to build more covered beds inside the pen, just yet.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 10, 2018, 06:13:32 AM
Took a photo of the skirret (perpetual carrot) bed this morning to show how tall the tops can get. 

In this heat wave, I've had to keep it well-watered.  Skirret might almost prefer to be grown aquaponically, with its feet standing in water, but needs the mycorrhizae only available in soil.  So it's kept happy in pretty wet soil.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 10, 2018, 10:26:31 AM
Is the skirret mainly for humans or chickens?  It slightly resembles parsnips.  IIRC, you did talk of it in earlier posts.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 10, 2018, 10:32:51 AM
It's good in stews and desserts.  It does have a tough core that makes it less desirable to eat raw. :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 14, 2018, 02:10:56 PM
Book published just this week, recommended by this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MyEfIe1i58

Narrator says that using the coupon code HARVEST BOOM will bring the cost under $10 on the link he provides. 

It's also available electronically for instant reading on Amazon, also for under $10.
https://www.amazon.com/Abundant-Harvests-Food-Security-uncertain-ebook/dp/B07FF6C8JS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1531603645&sr=8-4&keywords=abundant+harvests+book&dpID=51DEC8zqFpL&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DEC8zqFpL.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 15, 2018, 07:15:09 PM
Looks interesting!  If you get the book, please feel free to do a book review right here.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 16, 2018, 04:29:56 AM
I might do that as soon as I finish doing a major project in the garden here.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 16, 2018, 08:47:20 PM
Since we "live in the woods", we have an ongoing battle to save some or any of our garden crops from wildlife.  It's awful.  Crows, squirrels, raccoons, mice, and maybe even bluejays like the corn seeds just planted.  And raccoons especially love the plant itself, and in some years when raccoons were plentiful, they shredded the plants even before tassels or ears were formed!

And crows, songbirds, rabbits, mice, rats, and who knows what else will eat tomatoes, and nearly the same list will eat peppers.  Rather than continue to complain and whine, I decided to build one or more cages, complete with a roof.  Our new "corn cage" is about 40' long, is completely chicken wire, including four sides and roof.  If anything appears to be burrowing under, more wire can be added that is buried to prevent any digging.

In the first pic is the corn cage, Oaxacan Green in front, and Tohono O'odham in back, and as of today there are many ears forming, with the silk already turning brown.  That means nobody has gotten in and we will likely get ears to dry this year for seed and for grinding.

The second picture shows a raised bed that is made of old logs, rather than concrete blocks.  This add-on bed is double fenced, as is the main garden fence, a requirement to deter as much wildlife as possible.

We have noticed for just 2-3 years that our raccoon population has plummeted drastically and my best guess is that now that mountain lions are reproducing here, baby raccoons make a tasty meal to mountain lion kits, which is good, however crows, squirrels, and others still abound and are still looking for a free meal.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 17, 2018, 06:58:17 AM
That looks like a very practical solution Ilinda! 

We have a similar situation here, though on less acreage.  Groundhog tunnels, some half-eaten sunchokes underground, birds making a game of swooping over the blueberries repeatedly and grabbing what they can in their beaks. 

Unfortunately, our raccoon population is now struggling with rabies, and I don't know how many will survive.  I used to occasionally wake up during the night and enjoy watching a Papa, Mama, and a whole string of baby raccoons walking in a little line to a special water trough that we keep just for woodland mammals, but haven't seen them for a good while now. 

Thanks for the photos!

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7e/ea/fd/7eeafd93371cdfe818196d598bf7faf8--sweet-corn-shabby.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 17, 2018, 07:53:34 PM
So far, we only have two blueberry plants mature enough to produce fruit, and this year I hung several items that supposedly work to foil or scare birds.  I think it did work, as today I harvested the last blueberries from the late-ripening variety, Chandler. 

No bird ever touched one blueberry.  None.  If you like, I can post pictures of our setup, which I've left up because there are still six (6) berries not mature, and we want every last berry for ourselves.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2018, 08:19:02 AM
Please do post photos Ilinda - Thanks!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
BTW - In reading back over this thread, it occurred to me that since...

...numerous mammals share our watering trough (which is low enough to the ground that they can reach it, and on a broad enough perch that they can jump up to it)

...and rabies can be transmitted via saliva,

...that a little colloidal silver in the birdbaths and trough might not be a bad idea.  I did some research on it, and found that pets can take it internally, so why not wildlife?

This only makes economic sense for those who produce their own colloidal silver at home for essentially the cost of a pint or quart of distilled water.

At first I was hesitant to try it because colloids fall out of solution (entropy) in sunlight and in mineralized water, but of all the online advice to give it to pets, none of it suggests giving it strictly in distilled water.  It would be a little bit less economical to provide distilled water for the birdbaths, but maybe occasionally in an effort to eradicate rabies from our wildlife population?

I have used it to heal a sore in a cat's eye once, with near-instantaneous results (an ulcer filled right in), so know that it can be effective for some treatments of mammals.

And since silver produces a straight kill, there can be no danger of a mutation / germ adaptation occurring.

My one concern is that the animals' gut flora would need to be repopulated, but given how much they eat off the ground, that probably would occur naturally without intervention.  At least that is the advice given by horticulturalists who say not to worry about the soil recovering its flora content after being solarized with black plastic.

Would love thoughts on this, and meanwhile am going out to add silver to all of our watering stations.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Jimfarmer on July 18, 2018, 11:20:47 AM
Check the details of how colloidal silver kills bacteria.  Vaguely remembered: gram negative versus gram positive  (?).

From a Google search:
--------------------------
Does Colloidal Silver Kill Good and Bad Bacteria? - The Silver Edge
https://thesilveredge.com/bacteria/

Many purveyors of commercial brands of colloidal silver claim that it does not kill the beneficial microorganisms that colonize the human intestinal tract and
----------------------------
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2018, 06:06:36 PM
I was't aware of this Jim - will look into it some more.  Thanks so much for sharing the information!  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 18, 2018, 07:37:47 PM
One question I would have relates to concentration in water.  Thinking of how fluoridated water--even if it were beneficial, the dose administered varies greatly, depending on the size of the person.  A baby drinking fluoridated water will ingest a much higher dose than someone weighing 150#, because the fluoride is added to be a certain amount/ per ounce of water, or per/gallon of water, etc.

Thinking of the small amount of water in a birdbath, and fact that mostly only birds and insects will use it, whereas the trough would likely be frequented by many animals of all sizes.  Since birds don't get rabies, would it be necessary to add colloidal silver to the bird bath?

And since not all animals have rabies, is adding colloidal silver to the water the best way to prevent an outbreak?  I certainly don't have the answers, but wonder if there's some downside to "silverizing" the water for all wildlife? 

The way I'm seeing it is that rabies is a natural, cyclic outbreak disease that culls the weakest.  Those alternating booms and crashes in various populations represent one of Nature's way of thinning out the weaklings, leaving the strongest to carry on.  In other words, raccoon numbers may skyrocket for a few years, then boom!  they come crashing down due to rabies outbreaks or whatever, and whoever is left is resistant enough to survive and carry on.  My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 19, 2018, 09:01:36 AM
Thanks so much for sharing that perspective Ilinda.  I may not do it again any time soon. 

There is still some silver left biologically in nature.  Here's an interesting website that lists where trace mins occur botanically, including both toxic and non-toxic ones:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/metals_i.html

Quote
Plants Containing SILVER

1. Lycopersicon esculentum MILLER - Tomato (Fruit) 0-1.4 ppm
2. Quercus rubra L. - Northern Red Oak (Stem) 0-1.32 ppm

Biological Activities of SILVER
Astringent ; Bactericide MAR; Pesticide ;

Am wondering from that list if part of the reason most tomato crops are so prone to diseases, especially if not rotated, may be the depletion of silver from our soil?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 19, 2018, 08:44:41 PM
Thanks so much for sharing that perspective Ilinda.  I may not do it again any time soon. 

There is still some silver left biologically in nature.  Here's an interesting website that lists where trace mins occur botanically, including both toxic and non-toxic ones:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/metals_i.html

Quote
Plants Containing SILVER

1. Lycopersicon esculentum MILLER - Tomato (Fruit) 0-1.4 ppm
2. Quercus rubra L. - Northern Red Oak (Stem) 0-1.32 ppm

Biological Activities of SILVER
Astringent ; Bactericide MAR; Pesticide ;

Am wondering from that list if part of the reason most tomato crops are so prone to diseases, especially if not rotated, may be the depletion of silver from our soil?
Interesting about the silver in tomato and Northern Red Oak.  I would have guessed wrong--that the silver is taken up by plants in areas where there is more silver--for example near an old silver mine in this area.  But apparently the plant dictates what it wants--makes sense.

Am guessing tomatoes might be prone to diseases because they've been bred sort of like dogs--mainly for looks, although I'm sure some were bred for taste and utility in drying or canning, etc.   There are so many hybrids also, and that adds to the confusion.

One very common tomato problem is blossom end rot, and most people don't realize it's merely a shortage of calcium in the potting soil or starting medium, and once the plant is in the ground and can send roots down deeper, they will get their needed calcium and the bl.end.rot will end.  I always sprinkle powdered egg shell on top of the potting soil in every cell where a tomato seed goes, and that prevents blossom end rot.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 20, 2018, 04:38:40 AM
What a useful tip Ilinda - thanks so much for sharing it!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 21, 2018, 03:02:47 PM
Please do post photos Ilinda - Thanks!
I have tried three times to reply to this and each time after waiting minutes, everything disappears, and next screen tells me I have already posted this.  But it never posts.  Maybe I'll email you the pics!

There are several things that help foil the birds:  1) fake owl; 2) pinwheel that spins in slightest breeze; 3) three aluminum "hula skirts" that flutter in the breeze.  Pictures to follow in separate post or email.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 22, 2018, 05:04:04 AM
Sorry for all the trouble Ilinda.  The hula skirts sound innovative!  Looking forward to the pics when you're able to send them!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 22, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
Solution:  take pics with old camera that posts pics easily, albeit with lower resolution.  Update to follow tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 23, 2018, 04:51:38 PM
Reduced size of pics, so trying again, one at a time.  "How to Foil Bird Attacks on Blueberries".
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 23, 2018, 04:53:42 PM
"How to Foil Bird Attacks on Blueberries", part 2.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 23, 2018, 04:56:29 PM
Seen in Reply #153 is the closeup, including visible blueberries, the last six on the plant.  Upper left is that pinwheel that really does a job.  Am now looking for about 10-20 more for next year, as we just planted a new bed of eight new plants, and may need two pinwheels per plant.

In Reply #152, one can see the "hula skirts" that also do a nice job of looking scary if you're a small bird and can't figure out all that shiny motion.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 23, 2018, 04:59:16 PM
Elegantly simple methods - and brilliant Ilinda.  Hope you'll post more photos of your wonderful garden when you can!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 23, 2018, 05:24:14 PM
Possibly related to our earlier discussion about wildlife disease outbreaks.  In this one, it's a form of distemper, IIRC.  An example of Nature culling out the most susceptible.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/ef0c368b-4da4-33f1-ba1d-0cc0ddd3a805/ss_dozens-of-raccoons-die-from.html

Dozens of Raccoons Die From Viral ‘Zombie’ Outbreak in New York’s Central Park

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 24, 2018, 04:46:09 AM
I didn't realize that raccoons were susceptible to canine distemper.  So sad, but you're right that the stronger ones will survive, hopefully, and improve the gene pool.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 08:17:33 AM
Posting a photo of a Peruvian squash vine from seeds that Ilinda kindly shared last year.  It is growing on the ground of the Siberian Pea patch, in which not all of the largest rocks have been dug out yet.  The Peruvian squash doesn't seem to mind, as it winds its way around them.  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 08:26:20 AM
Sharing photos of the bee nectary garden.  The tall flowers have the stalks that make good fire kindling when the plants have died back in late autumn, as mentioned earlier:

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
A few more pics.  The last two are of mixed mints and clematis growing on the pump:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 09:06:52 AM
I had piled a couple dozen linear feet of firewood along the edge of a path a few years ago so I wouldn't have to weed along there, and then later removed it to find several inches deep of rich compost that was left in place to make a new hugelkultur bed, which I learned about from Socrates. 

This new bed permitted a separate space for purple Peruvian potatoes, which needed more moisture than other types.  In between them are some annual summer squash.  In the back of the bed climbing on the short fence are beans.

This new bed is in partial shade, so it is experimental, and seemed to do well in the hot dry spell that we had for a month after the Solstice.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 01, 2018, 09:22:06 AM
Posting a photo of a Peruvian squash vine from seeds that Ilinda kindly shared last year.  It is growing on the ground of the Siberian Pea patch, in which not all of the largest rocks have been dug out yet, but most of them have.  The Peruvian squash doesn't seem to mind, as it winds its way around them.  :)
Wow!  Thanks for posting all these garden pics.  Now for the questions.

Are your Yamiken squash flowering yet?  Mine just started a few days ago, but there won't be female flowers for a while, as it seems for days on end, flowers initially seem to be exclusively male.  One garden source said the reason for the early preponderance of male flowers is that the male flowers' scent will attract the correct pollinators, and once the pollinators are around, then the female flowers open.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 10:37:41 AM
Oh, that makes sense.  Mine are just beginning to put out flower buds, but none have opened up yet.  Our planting zone lags a week or two behind yours, so hopefully soon. 

Am experimenting with several other curcubits this summer, and finding that even in full sunlight they are not vining as vigorously as they should be, and I'm not sure why that would be.  So the Yamiken is leading the pack.  :)

I even obtained a pair of chayote squash vines like the ones that grew perennially on my husband's grandparents' farm in Louisiana many years ago - one of the only known squash varieties to be perpetual outside the tropics.  Down there they're called "Mirliton," with the Cajun accent on the final syllable.  It won't begin flowering until a few weeks ahead of the autumn equinox, as it needs days and nights to be about the same length in order to produce.  So I have them in trellised pots, and will be bringing them indoors at the first frost.

https://pfaf.org/User/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Sechium+edule

(https://pfaf.org/Admin/PlantImages/Sechium%20edule6_Low_Resolution.JPEG)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 01, 2018, 02:27:36 PM
Note: If anyone in the North would like to try growing chayote / mirliton, you can either purchase them from a larger grocery store produce section, or order online from places such as Etsy and Ebay, such as:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHAYOTE-Sechium-edule-Perennial-Squash-1-Live-Plant-Seed-fruit-with-seed/153090640720?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

The fat end sprouts the roots, and the narrower end the vine.  If growing from a fruit, plant with the narrow end up but slightly reclined, and expect the fruit to decompose in the process of making a new plant.  :)

https://permaculturenews.org/2017/02/09/make-garden-unique-chayotes/

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzs5X2Xyiy4zydU6Xnp67pGz8MluD6byo5T352xDzdfz3eEyMytQ)

(http://louisiana.kitchenandculture.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/recipes/Louisiana%20Kitchen%20%26amp%3B%20Culture/shrimp-stuffed-mirlitons.jpg?itok=g3cSlpW8)





Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 02, 2018, 09:23:15 PM
The chayote, served as shown, looks totally edible.  I did grow it one year, but it must not have been a long enough season, as I cannot recall eating any!

Since you plan to move yours indoors, that makes sense, as it takes longer here than it would in Louisiana.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 04, 2018, 08:36:13 AM
My understanding is that the squash fruit may be smaller in the North, maybe even just big enough to fit in your palm.

Update: One of mine produced the vine from the middle of the reclined body, rather than from the stem end, just in case anyone may try to grow one out from a fruit without the vine already established.  So I can see the reason for the instruction to lean it part-way over in the soil.   :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Solving Garlic-Growing Problems
Post by: R.R. Book on August 11, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
Have spent a while researching why I've been having so much trouble with garlic recently, when it should be one of the easiest crops to grow.

This film gave me a few thoughts on how to improve the next crop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEVwV7LQwhM

1. Most gardeners know that there are 2 types of garlic: hardneck and softneck.
Here is what I learned about them that I didn't already know, plus a couple of ideas:

Hardnecks generally overwinter well but don't root-cellar well.
Softnecks are generally spring-planted and harvested the same year.
Elephant garlic is milder tasting and not hardy.

One hardneck garlic cultivar stands out for Northerners: "Music," which both overwinters and root-cellars well.  It even outperforms Siberian.

2. Garlic plants shouldn't be watered at all unless it's very parched outside.  Thus, in view of very damp seasons here lately (drenched is a better word), it may even be a good idea to grow them under cover, such as in a cold frame or hoop tunnel that can be opened up in hot weather.

3. As an alternative, it might be even better to try planting garlic cloves in a hugelkultur bed with soil/compost mounded up for good drainage - just as long as there is enough soil in the compost mix to anchor the roots and keep plants from lodging, like in the image below.  Straw-bale planting might also work.  Notice how the bulbs are well-exposed on top of the soil for air circulation, as opposed to standard wisdom to plant more deeply:

(https://i1.wp.com/awaytogarden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Copyright-Dave-Whitinger-hugelkultur-onion-bed.jpg?resize=640%2C472&ssl=1)
These are really onions, not garlic, but same family :)
https://awaytogarden.com/hugelkultur-raised-garden-beds/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Sunchoke Soup
Post by: R.R. Book on August 11, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
For sunchoke gardeners and lacto-ovo vegetarians, here's a nice hearty sunchoke soup that would be good in cool weather.  Remember that sunchokes need to go through a few freezes in order to be more easily digestible.  The gardener who supplied this recipe, linked below, has kept his sunchoke bed from freezing too hard to dig by covering it with a storm window; however, allowing the chokes to go through the freeze-thaw cycles first should not be skipped:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6225/6323851000_a3d64d793c_z.jpg)

Sunchoke Soup with Pumpkin Seeds

Yield
    Makes 6 servings

Ingredients

        8 cups water
        1 1/2 teaspoons white wine vinegar or lemon juice
        2 pounds Jerusalem artichokes (also called sunchokes)*
        3 tablespoons butter
        1 cup chopped onion
        1 cup chopped leek (white and pale green parts only)
        2 garlic cloves, chopped
        7 cups (or more) vegetable broth
        1/2 cup heavy whipping cream
        Ground white pepper
        Shelled pumpkin seeds, toasted
        Pumpkin seed oil (optional)
        Sautéed chanterelle mushrooms (optional garnish)

Preparation

        Mix 8 cups water and vinegar in large bowl. Working with 1 Jerusalem artichoke at a time, peel and place in vinegar water to prevent discoloration. Set aside.
        Melt butter in heavy large pot over medium heat. Add onion, leek, and garlic; sprinkle with salt and sauté until soft and translucent, stirring often, about 12 minutes. Drain artichokes; rinse well and drain again. Cut into 1-inch pieces. Add to onion mixture and sauté 5 minutes. Add 7 cups vegetable broth, increase heat to high, and bring to boil. Reduce heat to medium-low, cover, and simmer until artichokes are very tender, about 1 hour. Cool slightly.
        Working in batches, puree soup in blender until very smooth. Return to pot. Rewarm soup, adding more broth by 1/4 cupfuls if needed to thin. Stir in cream and season to taste with salt and white pepper. do ahead Can be made 1 day ahead. Cool, cover, and chill. Rewarm before continuing. Divide soup among bowls and garnish with toasted pumpkin seeds; top with a drizzle of pumpkin seed oil and some sautéed mushrooms, if desired.

Referred by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsiq15hZlHI

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/sunchoke-soup-with-pumpkin-seeds-350413

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6052/6322103103_17cdc07a88_z.jpg)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: More on permaculture alliums and easy garden fencing
Post by: R.R. Book on August 12, 2018, 05:50:17 PM
This weekend I took action and reformed my allium-growing habits by digging out the bottom of the log pile and moving it to create a new hugelkultur bed, which really does seem like the best option.  No more alliums below the soil line here.

It was a lot of work, but will pay dividends.  Will work some peat into the decayed wood loam, and then add layers of crushed leaves when they begin dropping, as well as spent coffee grounds, etc.

Gardening on an elongated hill permits more than one row of crops, depending upon the size of the plants and the hill.  Alliums are not supposed to be grown with legumes, as tempting as it would be to let pretty pole bean vines grow up and tumble over the quick fence that I put around the new bed.  I like these little cedar fences that can be put up in a few minutes with hammered stakes, and adjusted as needed, and are inexpensive enough that they can be used around beds scattered all over the place:

(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/052144/052144000149.jpg)
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenes-Actual-15-ft-x-2-ft-Cedar-Spaced-Picket-Garden-Woven-Wire-Rolled-Fencing/50074001

I opted for a completely different way of approaching garlic than before, after reading this:
https://mortaltree.blog/2017/07/07/the-many-harvests-of-perennial-garlic/

In a nutshell the philosophy, and more truly perennial practice, is to avoid harvesting the garlic bulbs, and instead use the smaller bulbils which grow in a little flower package on the hard curlicue scape that shoots up from each plant in late spring.  The scape itself is also tasty.  The rocambole type of hardneck garlic, which bears the largest bulbils, does not have a long shelf life on its own, but instead is immersed in olive oil for longevity.  Using high oleic sunflower oil instead would greatly extend storability, making it suitable for the root cellar rather than the refrigerator.  A new scape with more bulbils should regrow from the otherwise untouched garlic plants, though that might happen the next summer, so best to plant lots.  :)

After an hour of searching, I managed to locate Killarney Red rocambole garlic bulbs, the only known cultivar able to withstand a wet climate.  It is also cold hardy like the German and Siberian types.  Few suppliers offer it, and those that do are either sold out for the year or have it on order for autumn shipping, which is the normal time to plant garlic that is intended to be pulled out of the ground (avoiding top growth before winter so as to encourage bulb growth beneath the soil).  In lieu of harvesting the underground bulbs, encouraging top growth ahead of the first frost, due in just about 8 weeks here, will help to ascertain plant spacing in the new bed.

This lesser-known farm stand in Wisconsin had the Killarney Red for immediate delivery:
https://www.raindanceorganic.com/

Next I looked for Allium fistolium onions that go by several names: Welsh onions, bunching onions, green onions, spring onions, and most Northern gardeners probably grow some version of them.  I wanted the closest thing that I could find to leeks, without having to deal with that biennial habit or the gaps that they leave in the garden when they are harvested from row-culture.  These tall ones are bred for their longer white stalks than regular fistoliums, which is the part used in lieu of leeks in soup-making.  Their nice celery-like basal-cluster growth habit means that they will be less likely to flop over or be knocked down in a storm.

https://oikostreecrops.com/products/perennial-vegetable-plants/edible-roots-bulbs-tubers/he-shi-ko-bunching-onion/

The garlic, reaching up to 2' in height not counting the scapes, will go in the back row of the mound, with the onions in front at at a similar height but requiring more access for division.

Here is an image of Rocambole with its typical curly scapes, still waiting to flower into bulbil clusters.  Depending upon the cultivar, the scapes can sometimes reach several feet in height:

(http://www.thisfoxkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/C_Garlic_Scapes_photo.png)

Other alliums already in the garden include chives and Millennial Onions, which are in the bee nectary garden:

(http://sugarcreekgardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Allium-millenium-Ornamental-Onion3.jpg)
(image from Sugar Creek Gardens)

And here is a bulbil packet ready to harvest:
(http://greyduckgarlic.com/images/Bogatyr-garlic-bulbil.jpg)

More information about garlic cultivars:
https://www.garlicclubb.com/garlic-cultivars.html
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 13, 2018, 07:51:02 PM
Keep us posted on your next garlic adventure.  It seems most years I grow garlic above the soil line, as it is usually in one raised bed or another.  They just seem so "flood-prone" when they sit in the ground, even with everything else.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on September 30, 2018, 08:45:29 AM
Here's a simple lacto-ovo vegetarian meal that I made in a pinch this weekend almost entirely from what the little homestead produced on less than two acres:

Ingredients:

*A pound of Purple Peruvian potatoes, scrubbed and cut into small pieces with skin left on

*Snipped bunching onion tops

*A dozen Spring-planted garlic cloves peeled, sliced thinly and sauteéd in butter

*A handful of chopped skirret roots (similar to carrots)

*8 duck and hen eggs over easy

Taters were browned in a large cast iron skillet, and then barely covered with water and cooked with the herbs and skirret until potato interiors turned white and carmelized, making a light brown gravy of their own.  Served with sunnyside eggs on top.  Sides: Berries that were frozen from this summer, and cinnamon toast.

The purple potatoes and berries contain proanthocyanogens:

Quote
Studies indicate that antioxidant power of proanthocyanidins is 20 times higher than that of vitamin C and 50 times higher than vitamin E.
~ http://www.immunehealthscience.com/proanthocyanidins.html

They also strengthen collagen and protect from UV radiation.

If desired, uncured and browned ground sausage could be mixed in with the potatoes.

Found a photo on the web similar to what it looked like:

(https://www.awickedwhisk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Purple-Potato-Breakfast-Skillet3-2-683x1024.jpg)
https://www.awickedwhisk.com/purple-potato-breakfast-skillet-3/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on September 30, 2018, 08:46:45 PM
WOW!  That is an incredibly delicious-looking dish!  And so much nutrition packed into one meal.  Wow again.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 01, 2018, 06:02:10 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Mountain Cranberries
Post by: R.R. Book on October 05, 2018, 11:29:13 AM
The current project on the microfarm is planting a Mountain Cranberry / Lingonberry patch.

These berries grow as far north as the Arctic Circle, and as far south as zone 6, so we are at the southern edge.  They are slightly sweeter than regular bog cranberries, and attract both honey bees and bumble bees.

They can be purchased retail from numerous online suppliers, or wholesale (100+) from  Hartmann's Plant Company in Michigan.  Hartmann's has the greatest number of cultivars to choose from that I've seen. 

Some cultivars yield better than others, though planting two or more cultivars increases yields.

Some varieties:

Koralle, Balsgard, Erntedank, Ertesegen, Linnea, New Farm, Red Pearl, Little Red, Magenta, Red Sunset, Regal, Ruby and Susi.

I chose to start with Erntedank alone to get the patch started, and will plan on adding smaller amounts of a pollenizer variety in the spring, as I won't be needing it just yet.  Erntedank was selected in the wild, and means "Thanksgiving" in German.  It grows to 12" in height, which is a medium height for this species, and is harvested in October and November when most of the rest of the garden is finished.  Berries are large and dark red.  Plants spread vigorously and are disease-resistant.

Since mountain cranberries are a vaccinium like blueberries, that means that they must have acidic soil and lots of water, but only need half sun.  The right soil makes the difference between success and failure with these, as I've grown them before in our blueberry patch but they needed their own space.

To get the right soil, it helps not to plan on using existing top soil.  If desiring to get started right away, need to select rotten firewood and break it up for the bottom layer on the ground, and mix in peat bales, which is it's natural substrate in the wild (woodland peat).  Site the bed in a place where there will be no foot traffic or ground compaction.  A narrow, long bed is a good plan. 

Mountain cranberries don't really need sugar to be preserved, but most jam recipes include it:

2 1/4 # fresh lingonberries
7/8 C water
1 C sugar

Unprocessed Method (refrigerator jam)

Boil 5-10 minutes, skimming foam (pectin).  Stir in sugar and boil a few more minutes.  Ladle into jars, leaving 1/4" room.  Cover with lids coated with rum (I do this for all jams, whether needed or not).  Tighten bands and invert jars so top of jam touches rum briefly to prevent mold growth.

Processed Method:

No pressure canning needed. Start water bath canner heating before mixing and boiling ingredients.  Pour hot mixture into clean jars and heat in canner for 10 minutes until lids seal.

Lingonberry / Mountain Cranberry jam is luscious on crepes, pancakes, meats, etc.

Nutrition:

A serving of lingonberry jam contains 36 mg vitamin C and 1,500 units of vitamin A.  They contain phytochemicals that are strongly antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.

Since my patch is under construction, am including a photo from the web:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1420/8798/products/cranberry-vaccinium-macrocarpon-seeds-amkha-seed_178_1200x.jpg?v=1535010135)

More here:
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/0/7265/files/2016/12/Lingonberries-s7ajxu.pdf
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 05, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
WOW!  Let us know how this progresses.  They look and sound delicious as well as nutritious.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 08, 2018, 09:56:29 AM
Posting a chart of winter chill-hour requirements for growing various fruits.  The lingonberries mentioned previously have an 800-hour chill requirement, meaning that they need to be below frost-temps at least that long in winter in order to experience a deep enough dormancy period to be awakened at the correct time in spring and stimulated to resume production.

Most locations in the North scarcely need look at this table.  :)

(http://calag.ucanr.edu/archive/?image=tab7001p11.jpg)

(https://www.tomorrowsharvest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Chill_Hours_Map.gif)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 20, 2018, 02:38:29 PM
I made a cake with our own eggs and decorated with mixed berries frozen from the homestead this summer:

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 20, 2018, 06:50:03 PM
WOW!  We'll be over for dessert.  :-D))
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 20, 2018, 07:11:04 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 28, 2018, 08:15:59 AM
Again using eggs and frozen blueberries, etc. from the little homestead,  I made Dutch blueberry pancakes this morning:

Recipe for 4 servings:

Preheat oven to 400o F
 
4 large eggs
1 C whole milk
1 C flour
1/4 C sugar (optional)
1/2 t lemon zest
1/4 t salt
2 T butter
1 C blueberries

Directions:
Blend eggs, milk, flour, sugar lemon zest and salt.

Heat 4 6" skillets over high heat.  Divide butter among them and melt.

Divide batter among skillets and scatter with blueberries.  Bake til puffed up and cooked through and tops have set, 15-18 minutes.

Top with more berries and powdered sugar (organic is best due to cornstarch content), if desired.

Serve immediately, with maple syrup if desired.

Photos:

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Tea Berry / Wintergreen
Post by: R.R. Book on October 28, 2018, 11:38:03 AM
What to do about a garden space that is not receiving enough sun to grow most crops?

Tea Berries, a.k.a. American Wintergreen.  Latin: Gaultheria procumbens.  This is the flavoring once used for chewing gum, which is still actually available:

(http://antiqueadvertising.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/D10-60.jpg)

Like the Mountain Cranberries planted elsewhere this autumn, they also are an evergreen creeping groundcover that need acidic soil, achievable with composted leaves, peat, decaying wood, etc.

(https://ouroneacrefarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Wintergreen-leaves-and-berries.jpg)
This gives us an idea of the size of the berries.

Yankee magazine featured this New England and Canadian favorite in last month's edition:
https://newengland.com/today/living/gardening/teaberry-plant/

(https://cdn7.bigcommerce.com/s-z6b2k4z/images/stencil/800x800/products/1399/4793/winter__23121.1517931429.jpg?c=2)

Tennessee Wholesale Nursery offers a batch of 100 started plants at a cost of $65, just a fraction of the price of the cranberry plants. 
https://www.tennesseewholesalenursery.com/wholesale-wintergreen-for-sale/

Berries are harvested in late autumn and winter, when nothing else is available, so are valuable as a survival food.  The juice makes a healthful tea.  Here it's being harvested in the wild in January for tea:
https://1left.wordpress.com/tag/wintergreen-tea/

Also:

https://learningandyearning.com/wintergreen-tea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZnkoXlbyN4

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WZnkoXlbyN4/maxresdefault.jpg)

The plant can also be used to make an alcoholic beverage that would make a lovely home-made Christmas gift:

(https://ouroneacrefarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Wintergreen-in-vodka.jpg)
https://ouroneacrefarm.com/wintergreen-harvest-make-alcohol-extract/

Medicinal qualities are explained here:

https://pfaf.org/user/plant.aspx?latinname=Gaultheria+procumbens

http://www.askaprepper.com/making-natural-aspirin-after-the-shtf/

The leaves do contain natural aspirin, and should be used in judicious quantity so as not to cause internal bleeding.

If you have a shady spot in a Northern garden where no other crop will grow, perhaps this one would have a lot to offer?

(http://www.seashoretoforestfloor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fullsizeoutput_333b.jpeg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Greenhouse or no greenhouse?
Post by: R.R. Book on October 29, 2018, 12:55:45 PM
That was a tough decision for us in the North.

Here were some deciding factors for the time being:

Permaculture Design:

Does a greenhouse figure high up on the list of a Northern Permaculture scheme? 

Possibly not at the top of the list, when the same square footage of ground could be devoted to perennials instead of annuals, or extremely hardy perennials instead of tender ones.  However, winter can last nearly half the year here...

Cost:

A pretty well-constructed small greenhouse can be had for as little as $1,000.  We don't always have even that chunk of funds available, but when occasionally there is room in the budget, the discussion of a greenhouse would periodically arise.  All in all, if you're going to get lots of use out of it, that may not be such a large expenditure, if it is a one-time infrastructure cost.

Site:

A greenhouse needs at a minimum to be well-anchored against the wind on a concrete or gravel pad, but better yet, dug into the ground several feet for insulation, making excavation a major issue on rocky ground.  But once done, it would be done forever, theoretically.

Strength:

This is a factor of cost not mentioned above.  Diamond of the Oppenheimer Ranch Project taught us all a valuable lesson when he had just finished installing a poly-sided greenhouse, which may have been just the thing to have in the South, but which did not survive his Colorado snow pack.  You might enjoy going over to his Youtube channel to see numerous films of the excellent well-constructed greenhouse that he built instead, something that probably could never have been purchased as a kit.  And in the dead of winter, you wouldn't believe what he can just walk in and pick to eat!

Heat:

Many may not realize that just erecting a structure does not make it a greenhouse.  If unheated, no matter how large it is, it is still just a cold-frame.  There must be a way to heat it.  Diamond and others have demonstrated how to do it without electrical heat.  Instead, blackened barrels full of water can be stacked in the greenhouse as a thermal sink which absorbs sunlight and holds onto it.  That, coupled with the well-insulated covered enclosure is enough to keep frost from damaging plants, as ice kills crops more readily than cold does.  The ultimate goal is not to have the interior toasty warm, but just enough above freezing that at least modest growth can continue.  Easiest to do for greens.

What we elected to do instead:

We have a loft in the already heated house that receives ample morning sunlight, and opted to clear out some clutter to open up linear space along the bottom of the loft rail.  At a cost of about $7 per grow light bulb x 3 lights and another $7 per clamp light fixture, I strung those up along the rail using $1 short extension cords between lights.  Each bulb burns 12 watts, so x 3 equals 36 watts.  The lamps are fully adjustable, and can be turned to focus either direction.  At present I'm using them to overwinter several large pots of geraniums, the chayote squash plants, and some chives, but there is room to add more potted plants if I squeeze them in.  A long potting bench could be added in lieu of setting pots on the floor, allowing plants to be sown and tended at a more comfortable height, if desired, and there might even be room to include the floor space beneath the potting bench with an additional row of grow lights beneath the bench.

Benefits:

Besides offering a low-cost, immediate solution for overwintering a limited number of tender plants, we also reap the physical benefit of oxygenated indoor air all winter, reducing the opportunity for illness, as well as the psychological benefit of indoor blooms and perhaps a modest amount of food all winter.  In the event of a power outage, the loft would still receive morning sun and ample heat from a woodstove below where the ceiling of the lower floor is cut out.

Limitations:

This measure is more useful if the power grid is up, or the small 36 watts are hooked up to a battery bank.

Photo:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Evaluation of this autumn's rootstock suppliers
Post by: R.R. Book on October 31, 2018, 08:53:01 AM
Normally we don't do as much planting in the fall here, as it can be an unpredictable season, but the constant deluge of this past summer made it necessary to replace some rotted stock, rethink some cultivar choices, and move some of what did survive to hilled ground. 

We relied heavily upon extreme Northern (for the U.S.) growers for most of this autumn rootstock, especially some in Michigan.  Not intending to advertise for any rootstock provider, but do want to share info about how each batch arrived:

*The lingonberries / mountain cranberries ordered from Hartmann's Plant Company in Michigan arrived in excellent condition in nice little individual baggies of roots and soil, closed with rubber bands.  They had evidently been potted at the nursery in small pots which were removed, saving me the trouble of having to deal with all those pots myself.  Each plant was distinguisable from the rest, in other words not part of a clump, and they kindly threw in a few extras to make up for any that might have been roughed-up during shipment, though scarcely any were.  These quickly accessible little individual plants were easy to unwrap and space apart.

*The dwarf thornless blackberries that arrived from Garden Crossings in Michigan were a surprise.  I'm not accustomed to receiving mature plants via mail order, but when I opened the box, out came fully grown dwarf thornless blackberry bushes in pristine condition, thickly branched with lush foliage and even still blooming.  They slid easily out of the typical "trade gallon" pots, which are really more like 3/4 gallon.  The mature rootballs were somewhat root-bound, and once unpotted, the bottom inch or so needed prying loose to allow roots to spread in their new soil.  Some older ones that I had planted previously in water-logged soil were much smaller by comparison, so they were dug up and moved with the new ones.

*The teaberries / wintergreen that arrived from the one Southern grower that we used this fall in Tennessee arrived very differently from the lingonberries, though they have a similar creeping evergreen groundcover growth habit.  Instead of coming as individual young plants needing to be spaced apart, these arrived as slightly tangled, contiguous mats of plants with fine, shallow roots, so that instead of spacing them, I just unrolled the entire "carpet" and laid it on top of a long hill of compost, mashing the fine roots gently into the crest of the hill.

Posting photo below of the dwarf blackberries and teaberries, though autumn leaves might obscure the view a bit:
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Cheap source of worm castings
Post by: R.R. Book on November 02, 2018, 05:03:02 AM
From photo #1 above, it may be possible to see the layer of worm castings that we put on the front two rows of this garden (darker soil on top).

Those who don't want to mess with worm farming at home might want to consider visiting their local commercial fish hatchery or bait shop.  When needing more castings than we produce, for example if we're breaking new ground on a garden, the local hatchery is able to sell us 40# bags of them for $5 apiece, far below the retail cost.  These sell out quickly in the spring to local gardeners, so autumn is a good time to get them and allow the dense nutrients to percolate into the garden over winter.  Unopened bags can also be purchased and stacked along with other bulky items such as hay or peat bales to provide a wind break anywhere it may be needed in winter.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4453/24350268388_326f50bfd3_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: Yowbarb on January 10, 2019, 11:59:32 PM
R.R.
Wow what  wonderful pancakes, in Reply #180
I love all the info about the mountain cranberries, teaberries too.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on January 11, 2019, 05:14:26 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on January 11, 2019, 05:55:51 PM
R.R.
Wow what  wonderful pancakes, in Reply #180
I love all the info about the mountain cranberries, teaberries too.
And today I'm seeing for the first time the article about the Dutch Blueberry Pancakes!  Wow, looks so appetizing, and blueberries are one of the most nutritious berries.

Fascinating information about how the various plants were packed and it is obvious some nurseries are very particular to build their clientele with good quality stuff.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: A good book for winter reading
Post by: R.R. Book on January 14, 2019, 05:46:29 PM
Winter is a good time to catch up on permaculture reading material. 

Here is a foundational permaculture book worth snuggling up with in the cold:

Perennial Vegetables by Eric Toensmeier was the landmark book on growing perennial vegetables several years ago, and this is actually a re-reading for me.  It contains color photographs, detailed growing instructions on rare perpetual vegetables not found elsewhere in book form, and even a section devoted to some of the lost crops of the Incas.

(https://www.chelseagreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/9781603584951.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on January 16, 2019, 05:54:08 PM
This is reminding me of a book called, IIRC,  Forest Farming, which goes into great detail about all the fruits, nuts, bark, leaves, and other products that can be harvested from forests.  What a wealth of information.  I thought the title was Food From the Forest, but a search tells me otherwise.  I think the title is actually the first one above.

Harvesting from forests and fields is much more appealing than getting on hands and knees and planting stuff, only to have squirrels, crows, rabbits, etc., decimate it!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on January 17, 2019, 04:18:59 PM
Gardening at the edge of a woods has been a hot topic for several years lately, as a sub-theme of permaculture. 

Agree that it's easier to garden standing up, but oh how quickly one's clothing (and bare skin) becomes tattered when foraging for berries among the brambles, so it's good to keep a stash of those iron-on patches in assorted colors to reinforce clothing on the wrong side.

(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_0711fd90-1a0d-42ef-a5c5-08e27b6e8ce3?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)

Some "ground-breaking" books (pun intended  :) ) -

(https://d3525k1ryd2155.cloudfront.net/f/791/498/9781931498791.OL.0.m.jpg)

(https://www.chelseagreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/9781603585071.jpg)

(https://onegreenworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Integrated-Forest-Gardening.png)

(https://hgtvhome.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/grdn/fullset/2015/5/27/0/CI_woodlandhomestead-cover-front.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.1280.1600.suffix/1452648136128.jpeg)

(https://www.chelseagreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/9781856230087.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on January 18, 2019, 06:24:11 AM
Wonderful sources of information in those books!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on March 22, 2019, 05:08:26 PM
Found this today and it is certainly relevant, possibly linked to in an earlier post in this topic.

Planting ‘Forest Gardens’ Can Promote a More Sustainable Food System

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_m_0UPOzuI
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 22, 2019, 05:59:06 PM
A good concise introduction.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 10, 2019, 05:14:31 AM
Still digging out from winter here on the microfarm...so many leaves still to rake and use for mulch, fallen sticks and branches to remove, woodstove ashes to spread on the gardens, and old flower stalks to deadhead.

How is everyone else doing with spring cleanup?

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UHHZTJB7KLI/UxM6GJXADPI/AAAAAAAAeyI/1J-hlcFC_TA/s1600/Early+Photographs+of+Animals+in+Human+Situations+from+1914+(21).jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 10, 2019, 06:37:46 PM
Dragging old plastic tarps out of the garden, swearing never to use plastic again!  (The plastic was a makeshift greenhouse for the "Olive House" to protect the olive trees in winter.) 

Removing every single thing from the garden that is not essential for growing crops:  plastic tarps; flower pots, small, medium and large; two black mixing tubs, one 6' aluminum ladder, surplus concrete blocks formerly part of the makeshift "Olive House"; and when garlic is harvested in June, removing the "raccoon proofing" which consists of a long roll of welded wire fencing, unrolled and lying on top of the garlic bed, with the garlics sticking through the holes,; and removing the 10' long cedar sticks used to anchor down the hideous-looking welded wire garlic cover.

Hard to imagine so much "stuff" in one little garden!

The good part is that garlic, shallots, and some parsnips are growing, and today I planted beet seeds, and replanted parsnips to fill in spaces.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 11, 2019, 04:16:21 AM
Am seeing alliums up here also!

It sounds as if you could use an extra shed or barn?  I've got some clutter in the henyard that needs to come out, as well, like a gate separating the duckyard from the hens which came off its hinges, a partial bale of welded wire, a partial bale of chicken wire, a bird house that fell from its post, etc.  I spent half of last Saturday just focusing on repairs in the henyard, but more needs to be done.

If you decide against plastic for overwintering the olives, will you build another kind of greenhouse?  I lost a fruitful fig once here, and would like to try again, as there are better cultivars now for the North.  Still not sure about where to put a greenhouse though...
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 11, 2019, 05:38:39 PM
Had to laugh at my list of clutter and your list of clutter and thought that would make a fun topic:  Homestead Clutter.

We could post pics of our awful-looking areas, but it's just a pipe dream, as I'm sure Marshall wouldn't appreciate us taking us space to show and tell pics of clutter!  LOL

I did order a little greenhouse and it has been delivered and is sitting unassembled in a back room.  It will be erected around the current olive trees with a few extra feet in which we can plant greens or whatever.  Current "olive house" is about 4' X 12' and new one is 6' X 16'.  Only other thing needed will be some concrete piers or footing or something very substantial to anchor it, as my original plan to set it on red cedar posts/boards was changed a month or so ago when we experienced incredible winds for several days, which partially destroyed the little makeshift olive house.

Speaking of figs, we have four--two that remain in the ground and two that were temporarily moved indoors as they are still in pots.  The two that in the ground survived the winter before last including -20 deg. F.  They do lose all their leaves and look awful, but can come back.  But if it's -20 deg. F for days or weeks on end, they might die.  Some people in MO will plant them against a stone or brick wall which is a great heat sink in winter, plus they mulch.  Still waiting to see if the two outdoor figs resurrect again this year, as it's a bit early.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 11, 2019, 05:42:18 PM
Am thinking that I may have actually pronounced the fig tree dead too soon then?  Too late now, as I already dug it up some years ago!  ::)

Looking forward to seeing your greenhouse go up, as well as sharing our clutter!  LOL!  :D :D
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture: Cold-Hardy Strawberries
Post by: R.R. Book on April 12, 2019, 09:12:07 AM
As our climate cools where we live, am noticing that I can no longer overwinter permaculture crops in raised beds with legs or in containers on the deck, so now they all must either go directly into the ground or in a raised bed without legs that makes full contact with the ground.  The old containers will still be useful for annuals.

That would suggest that we've lost a full or half planting zone here already (7 to 6).  We were technically 6b before, but could grow several zone 7 items in the past. 

Though previously my focus for strawberries was on disease resistance due to our wet climate, am suggesting some cold-hardy varieties for gardeners in more Northerly latitudes:

Short Season ("June Bearing" but might be mid or late season):

Annapolis (early season)
Cabot (early season)
Earliglow (early season_
Mesabi (mid season)
Archer (mid season)
Cavendish (mid season)
Kent (mid season)
Stellarossa (late season)

Of these, Mesabi from the University of Minnesota appears to be by far the most disease-resistant, but it doesn't thrive in a rainy climate.

Everbearing / Day-Length Neutral:

Ozark Beauty
Ogallala
Arapahoe
Sequoia
Hecker

https://strawberryplants.org/strawberry-varieties/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strawberry_cultivars

http://www.lakeview-farms.com/strawberryvarietiescombined.htm#Mesabi

(http://bib.ge/img_animal/180315098b031903da7aa07cf4a38a4b8f8f.jpg)
The "Annapolis" strawberry cultivar is
surprisingly listed as cold-hardy, even
though named after a more southerly city.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 14, 2019, 02:38:27 PM
Those who listen to Apple or ITunes podcasts might enjoy Urban Forestry Radio.  They have 41 permaculture podcasts sponsored by the Community Orchard Network, an organization that encourages the planting of food in public spaces.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/urban-forestry-radio/id1078657833

Today I listened to the description in Episode 7 of the Romance Series line of dwarf tart cherry trees, as told by the Canadian breeder himself.  Here is a brief synopsis, with additional info gleaned from other sources:

Romeo: Produces darker cherries later in the season that average 4g in weight with a Brix of 18-22.  Considered to have the best flavor, and begins bearing a year earlier than the others.  Thicker-skinned.  Ties with Cupid for highest pH.  A good processing cherry, and good for fruit leather.  Ties with Cupid for latest season production.  Low suckering - More of a tree than a bush.

Crimson Passion: The smallest height of the series on extreme dwarfing rootstock.  Also produces large darker cherries weighing 6g.  The firmest of the series, and good for canning.  The only member of the series not to produce nodes on the roots which can be developed into cherry shrubs, so it is distinctly a tree-form rather than a bush.  The Canadians considered this to be a drawback in a cold climate, as once the top of the tree is killed, there is no salvaging the plant.  It also has the highest sugar content with a Brix of 22, and tied with the earlier version of the series, Carmine Jewel, for most intense color.  Not fully diseast-resistant in wet climates.  Also least reliable of the series, sometimes skipping production in some years, and may cease blooming after several years.

Valentine: The only one in the series to produce a bright red cherry, it has a Brix of 18.  Considered the best for dehydrating, which should be done in a 225o oven for several hours instead of in a dehydrator due to the juices.  Soft skin.  Lowest pH.  Smallest fruit in most years, though it can exceed the others occasionally in size.  Has an elongated pit that must be removed by hand.  Not yet released in the States.

Cupid: Produces the largest fruit of the series at 6.5g, which is also a dark red color.  Firm skin.  Ties with Crimson Passion for the highest sugar:acid ratio, and has a Brix of 16-20.  Ties with Romeo for latest season production and highest pH.  A good processing cherry.  Not yet released in the States.

Juliet: Fruit weighs 5g with a Brix of 18-20.  High fruit-to-pit ratio (more fruit than pit), and pits are especially easy to remove. Low suckering - more of a true tree form.

All trees in the series are self-pollinating and appropriate for zones 2-8 due to chilling / dormancy-hour requirements.

Compare with the early parent of this series from 1990's breeding work by the same breeders, Carmine Jewel:

Carmine Jewel has smallest fruit at 4g, with a 13-17 Brix and thin skins.  Produces a lot of juice and makes a good wine cherry, as well as being good for fruit leather.  Highest consistent yield.  It ripens earlier than the Romance Series and has no diseases that I'm aware of.

(http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/plaveg/pbrpov/image/3386.jpg)

Trial summary:
http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/apps/adf/ADFAdminReport/20090405.pdf

More:
http://prairietechpropagation.com/app/uploads/Dwarf-Sour-Cherry-Table-2019.pdf

(https://fruitgrowersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Breeders-sawatzky-and-bors-462x330.jpg)
Breeders of the Romance Series cherries from the University of Saskatchewan
https://fruitgrowersnews.com/news/saskatchewan-fruit-breeders-receive-prestigious-horticulture-award/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 27, 2019, 06:56:34 AM
Note to anyone attempting to grow mountain cranberries and other vaccinia:

Now that we're entering the hottest part of summer, it might be a good idea to spread a roll of fiberglass shadecloth or poly garden cloth over the bed, to shield plants from harsher UV radiation, especially now that UV C is penetrating our atmosphere.  This can be laid directly upon the plants themselves, or clipped onto hoops.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.johnnyseeds.com%2Fdw%2Fimage%2Fv2%2FBBBW_PRD%2Fon%2Fdemandware.static%2F-%2FSites-jss-master%2Fdefault%2Fdw930095da%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Ftools%2F09558_01_knitshadeclth.jpg%3Fsw%3D387%26cx%3D302%26cy%3D0%26cw%3D1196%26ch%3D1196&f=1)

Not so easy to do for closely related blueberry plants in the vaccinia genus, which may also begin to experience stress and leaf-burn, as they are likely bearing heavily for the next few weeks, and will need sunlight to ripen and sweeten the berries.  However, as soon as that harvest tapers off, it might be a good idea to shade your blueberry shrubs as well, both to prevent leaf scorch and discourage late-summer leaf chewing by the caterpillar stage of flying insects preparing to pupate for the winter.  Instead, they'll appreciate a separate butterfly garden thoughtfully located several paces away from any tempting vaccinia gardens.  :)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fx%2Fcaterpillar-branch-15051418.jpg&f=1)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 27, 2019, 07:55:41 PM
Now that we're entering the hottest part of summer, it might be a good idea to spread a roll of fiberglass shadecloth or poly garden cloth over the bed, to shield plants from harsher UV radiation, especially now that UV C is penetrating our atmosphere.  This can be laid directly upon the plants themselves, or clipped onto hoops.
The increased UV radiation explains some things, as not everything in the garden is growing as it should.  Potatoes, sweet potatoes, parsnips and beets seem to be growing normally, but collards just don't want to grow tall as they used to do.  I cannot prove it has anything to do with increased UV, but am looking for clues and you've provided at least one. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 28, 2019, 06:54:52 PM
Ilinda, I'm also still puzzling over why I have some very tall rows of sunchokes already, adjacent to some very short rows that don't seem to be catching up.  We're at the point in summer when they should all be cut back by half in order to redirect their energy to the tubers (it supposedly should be done twice per summer), so I'll just cut the tall ones back equal to the height of the short ones, and  hope everything catches up by the autumnal equinox bloom time.

Some of my rocambole is flopping over too, so am experimenting with a theory for strengthening permaculture crops, and that is "recursive planting," or filling in  gaps in a given planting bed for a few years in a row as each species also fills in its own gaps, until each crop becomes firmly established and able to stand up to imperfect conditions.  I figure if a particular species fails after that 3-year period, it may either need to be re-sited or eliminated from our design.   :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 28, 2019, 07:11:02 PM
Listing an approximate order of onset of berry harvest, both wild and cultivated, in our 40o Northerly latitude.  The harvest periods may last for weeks in some cases, and may overlap:

Earliglow strawberries: end of first week of June

Mulberries: end of first week of June

Cabot strawberries: latter half of June

Black currants: latter half of June

Blueberries: last week of June (depends on your mix of cultivars)

Raspberries: last week of June

Black raspberries: end of June

Wineberries / Thimbleberries: first week of July

Blackberries: latter half of July and possibly again in autumn

Mountain cranberries: autumn

Muscadines: early October

Is anyone else growing berries? 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on June 28, 2019, 08:23:10 PM
Listing an approximate order of onset of berry harvest, both wild and cultivated, in our 40o Northerly latitude.  The harvest periods may last for weeks in some cases, and may overlap:

Earliglow strawberries: end of first week of June

Mulberries: end of first week of June

Cabot strawberries: latter half of June

Black currants: latter half of June

Blueberries: last week of June (depends on your mix of cultivars)

Raspberries: last week of June

Black raspberries: end of June

Wineberries / Tayberries: first week of July

Blackberries: latter half of July and possibly again in autumn

Mountain cranberries: autumn

Muscadines: early October

Is anyone else growing berries?
We have strawberries, blueberries, wild raspberries, wild blackberries, wild mulberries.  Wildlife get most of the blackberries, raspberries, and mulberries, and about all of the strawberries.  Until this year, we got nice blueberries from two older plants, but this year some unusual looking bird is eating them, so a cage is in order for next year.

Likewise, some sort of enclosed growing area will have to be created for strawberries, blackberries and raspberries.  Every year the wildlife predation on the garden grows worse.

 Interestingly, I remember growing up in northern Indiana and never giving a thought to the fact that no wildlife ever touched our garden, for the simple fact that there wasn't any wildlife around.  I guess the farmers nearby had eliminated the wildlife, and we never even heard shots during deer season.  So, I guess I/we should be grateful for the diversity we experience in Missouri's Ozarks.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 29, 2019, 06:27:56 AM
Agreed that there are trade-offs to having wildlife around, as opposed to not being able to sustain wildlife.  They do give something back to each biome; it's just not always the first thing we think about when we see our meticulously raised fruit crops picked over, decimated, and full of their little teeth marks!

We too are gradually enclosing more crops, and the wildlife do find ways around our barriers  :)

Have given up on it for this year, but next year am planning to make sturdy 7' high welded-wire hoops over our bluebery patch.  We have around a dozen high-bush types in two rows a few feet apart, so about 4 16' lengths of 4' wide welded wire could be arched in series over the patch, and may not even need center posts if it's sturdy enough.  This would be covered with screencloth which would double for shade in summer, and could be rolled up during the spring blossom pollination period and early ripening.  It may not keep every bird or insect out of the patch, but might significantly discourage them.

Right now, every crow and jay that wants blueberries is helping him or herself, so I try to harvest twice a day during peak berrying season, as they are coloring up that quickly in peak summer heat.

(https://www.gardeners.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-SharedLibrary/default/dw9f5c034d/Articles/Gardening/Hero_Thumbnail/5237-bird-eating-blueberry.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on June 29, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Posting a photo of the simple arched welded-wire fencing cage I'm thinking about for the blueberry patch - several of these in series, with netting fastened over them:

(https://dailyimprovisations.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/simple-bean-trellis-arch-oldest-grape-vine-side-view.jpg)

https://dailyimprovisations.com/simple-arched-trellis-for-grapes-or-pole-beans/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 01, 2019, 08:30:34 PM
Agreed that there are trade-offs to having wildlife around, as opposed to not being able to sustain wildlife.  They do give something back to each biome; it's just not always the first thing we think about when we see our meticulously raised fruit crops picked over, decimated, and full of their little teeth marks!

We too are gradually enclosing more crops, and the wildlife do find ways around our barriers  :)

Have given up on it for this year, but next year am planning to make sturdy 7' high welded-wire hoops over our bluebery patch.  We have around a dozen high-bush types in two rows a few feet apart, so about 4 16' lengths of 4' wide welded wire could be arched in series over the patch, and may not even need center posts if it's sturdy enough.  This would be covered with screencloth which would double for shade in summer, and could be rolled up during the spring blossom pollination period and early ripening.  It may not keep every bird or insect out of the patch, but might significantly discourage them.

Right now, every crow and jay that wants blueberries is helping him or herself, so I try to harvest twice a day during peak berrying season, as they are coloring up that quickly in peak summer heat.

(https://www.gardeners.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-SharedLibrary/default/dw9f5c034d/Articles/Gardening/Hero_Thumbnail/5237-bird-eating-blueberry.jpg)
It's not that I'm glad others have wildlife predation on food crops, but relieved to know we're not alone!  As it gets worse every year, we too continue to refine our protective techniques.  Your blueberry welded wire cover will allow you to walk in there, but the screen/cloth over the frame will be essential to keep birds out.  We are planning something similar.

We have three older blueberry bushes, and 10 young bushes which might produce next year, so they will definitely need cover.  They are already inside a raised bed of sawdust surrounded by concrete blocks.  The hardware cloth (the plan for now) will arch over the entire bed and hopefully prevent birds from entering.

Another wildlife problem appears to have a solution.  The strange problem this year with rats means lots of damage.  They will gnaw through a healthy collard plant, about 1" from the ground, and the entire collard top will be found several feet from where it was gnawed off.  They don't even eat it!  I started out with 24-27 collard plants and now have 1 left.  The solution which I think will work is to place a black plastic flower pot (cut off the bottom) around the new seedling.  As the seedling grows, it is protected from rat or rabbit, as neither is tall enough to reach inside or over the top of flower pot.  Plant continues to grow, and the flower pot shell remains around the plant during the entire growing season.  At season's end, flower pot shells can be stacked even more easily than the pots with intact bottoms.

That is how I fiinally protected the Yamiken winter squash.  Started out with about 15, noticed them being cut off, so used the large flower pots for "growing collars", and it has worked wonders, as no more damage to Yamiken.

Next year I plan to surround all peppers, tomatillos, tomatoes, collards, and maybe other crops with the flower pot shells.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 05:28:06 AM
Thanks so much for sharing your collar method of protecting your crops Ilinda.  It reminds me of the way some vegies are protected from cutworms using tuna or cat food cans with the bottoms removed.

Am wondering if the rats that chewed through only the necks of your collards were searching for water?  Seems as if that might be the most they could get from the necks.  I guess the undisturbed tops could have the lower chewed-on part trimmed off and be washed and chopped up for winter stews, so not wasted? 

One thing that I did for our sea kale and non-bolting French sorrel crops was to surround them with a 2'    picket fence, and then staple landscape fabric that had been folded lengthwise to the lower part of the fence, as a retaining wall.  That amounts to several thick folds creating a long narrow strip around the base of the fence.  Of course, that doesn't stop tunneling into the garden from outside the fence, but it seems that all of the mouse holes this year are inside the hen yard, as the hens leave some of their sunflower seeds uneaten each day.  Maybe allowing mice into the biome in this way, contrary to most advice, diverts them away from crops?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179145786_ba3a44ff80.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpqHvm)
In this garden, small clumps of non-bolting French sorrel are interspersed between large broccoli-forming sea kale plants, still young in this photo, so that no space is wasted.  Both crops share a semi-shaded back row, as both stress easily after even a couple of days of dry heat here.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 05:44:03 AM
Just an updated photo of how the dwarf thornless blackberry bush garden is coming along.  The larger ones near the back, which were planted last autumn, are fruiting well, and the smaller ones in the front two rows were just planted this spring.  I discovered that some nurseries misinterpret how Brazelton intended these to grow: he developed them as tidy mounded shrubs, while some nurseries train them into tall, lanky canes as in the common species.  They can still fit into a cultivated garden if the canes are tied to a post and trellis system.  Since these dwarves will grow to 4' in height, I don't mind bending over that far to harvest, and prefer the tidy mounds, which will grow together as hedgerows.

This is the same garden that began last autumn as long rows of raked leaves with peat, coffee grounds and worm castings from the local fish hatchery dumped onto them.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179330012_7060987741.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gprEgE)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 05:57:10 AM
Posting a photo of how the new purple Peruvian potato garden is coming along.  For those unfamiliar with this perennial Andean cultivar, the plants have purple stems and veins, and may have purple "stars" on the leaves:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179328746_c90c1bc859.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gprDTQ)
This garden was created with a lower pH than regular garden soil would have, in order to discourage the strep bacteria that causes potato scab.  Instead of using ordinary soil, we started these two long mounds off with rotting logs, topped off with peat and wood shavings (small chip size rather than sawdust).  Hay was placed around the interior of the fence as a porous retaining wall, as well as down between the two rows for a weed-resistant walkway.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:22:23 AM
One of the principles of permaculture is working with the contours of the land, even in minute detail.  This particular round-shaped sunchoke bed camoflouges a well head.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179570742_7f08d704bf.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpsTQb)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:30:43 AM
Another aspect of permaculture design is using edibles that are also ornamental near the house.  These hostas, which cover the site of a wood pile and propane tanks here, prefer shade and need very little attention.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179613792_14cc913415.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpt7Cq)

These were used to ring a bird bath in our "bird hospital" location, adjacent to a berry patch:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179687702_0ac6f1b6d1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gptuAJ)

They are most commonly eaten as young shoots:

(https://practicalselfreliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Hosta-Shoots-in-Spring.jpg)

(https://practicalselfreliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Fried-Hostas.jpg)
https://practicalselfreliance.com/edible-hostas/

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:43:59 AM
Shade cloth doubles as a wildlife barrier over the June strawberries and mountain cranberries:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179744807_a87620850a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gptMzi)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179928087_35d92c313c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpuJ4i)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:48:10 AM
These sunchokes need to be cut in half now, so as to redirect their energy into their tubers.  They will need another pruning in a month, and will still reach at least 6' tall in early autumn, when they will bloom as yellow sunflowers:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179695786_81719638f3.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gptx17)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:53:26 AM
These dwarf thornless raspberries, even smaller than the dwarf blackberries, are currently bearing, but you can't see the berries because they're on the undersides of the branches, which need to be lifted up and checked at least once per day right now.

I only planted a few of these, and the rest of these plants came up on their own, so they were a very economical purchase:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179793417_67e6696ebb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpu32p)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:56:38 AM
Another edible ornamental plant is daylilies.  All parts can be eaten.  Not only are they packed with starchy calories at the roots, but they also make a nice bit of gingerbread display in the garden to soften hardscape such as fences.  Here they frame the fence around our blueberry patch:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179822517_3a78024120.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpubF8)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 07:03:18 AM
The bee nectary garden is just starting to come into its peak.  Iris, peonies and mallow are finished for the season.  Lemon balm has taken over every nook and cranny in this garden, and needs constant cutting back or replanting elsewhere, as invasive as it is.  However, the bees need it in autumn, when little else will be blooming.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179856437_8424495daa.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpumKX)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 07:34:02 AM
This rock garden contains spring-planted bush cherries, also known as sand cherries, still very young and unbranched.  The flowers ringing the rocks are Carpathian bellflowers, which have edible leaves that can be used in salads and roots that taste like radish.  The plant also has medicinal value, but be careful, as ingesting it is said both to open one's eyes to the fairy world, and to upset the fairies, who allegedly don't like others to pick on the plant.  Will ask Solani about this :)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179886171_d3133c591b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpuvAB)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCZQyNtU2OnhxFNBNEUPwudT2U7p27ug2LfFoxrKEcT6YAL6JZ)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 07:43:16 AM
These are perennial "walking onions" which tip over when they form a seed head, and spread in this manner.  They are interspersed in our garden with Welsh bunching onions or shallots.  The green tops of both can be harvested several times during the year, for a freezer full of flavorful and medicinal snipped greens to be added throughout winter to stews and other dishes:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48180179627_0be65a8ec5.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpw1Qc)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 08:01:31 AM
We're experimenting with three kinds of asparagus in different locations in our garden: Purple Knight, Millennium and the old-fashioned heirloom Martha Washington, which is out of favor now, because it sets seed that some claim reduces yields due to the fact that the vegies come only from the males.  However, I want to remain in touch with the seeds from this species as part of our seed bank project.  This patch is growing up on an escarpment, so it drains well and the crowns are not likely to rot in our moist climate:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48180254196_9d1f4abeef.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpwoZS)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 02, 2019, 10:25:45 AM
RR, you have an absolutely amazing garden with so much diversity!  You will never lack for food.  As time permits, I'd love to comment here and there, and hopefully this afternoon I can get a few pics of the Purple Peruvian potatoes we have growing here as well.


Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 02, 2019, 10:44:37 AM
For years and years I have tried to germinate almonds in order to have almond trees.  The simple reason is that every almond tree I've bought has been a grafted tree and they always die!  Even the neighbor across the road ordered four almond trees and his promptly died within a couple of years.

Here in MO at approximately 37 deg. north, we are probably on the northern edge of almond habitat.  Nursery people say that if you can grow peaches, then you can also likely grow almonds, and peaches grow here, including a wild "Cherokee peach" that is rather small, densely red and tasty.

Over the years of trying to sprout almonds, I did sprout a few, but they died during or immediately after the transplanting process, which I'm realizing is the trickiest part, as it is critical not to damage the taproot when transplanting.

Another complicating factor is that now, in the U.S., it is illegal to sell raw almonds, unless you are the owners of the site where they are growing.  There was some new law or rule in recent years that dictates that, supposedly due to some potential microbial contamination, and now nearly 100% of all almonds sold in the U.S., even those labeled raw, have actually been treated with ionizing radiation.  So if you want truly raw almonds, buy them from the farm where they are growing.  They are hard to find, but one is Bremner Farms, https://www.organicalmondsraw.com/

Last winter I tried again, and this time have been very careful in moving the seedling from the flowerpot to the garden soil.  So far we now have three almond seedlings in the ground!  Finally.  Pic enclosed, and notice the remnant of the nut still visible at the soil level.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 02, 2019, 01:52:47 PM
Hopefully as the growing season ends, RR and I can compare our luck with that wonderful Purple Peruvian Fingerling potato.  After searching through my gardening charts and records, I finally found planting dates, and each pic is labeled as such.

The largest and most robust of the three beds this year was actually planted July 11, 2018, and after almost three months of growing, they hadn't flowered, were not finished, and cold was coming quickly, so I piled very thick, old hay on top, flattening all the tops in the process, and crossed my fingers while waiting to see if they would resurrect in 2019.  They started peeking through in April 2019 and have been flowering for weeks, and still look lush.  Pic is "PurP7-11-18.JPG".

The second bed, seen in "PurP4-27-19.JPG" was planted April 27 this year and is still flowering.  They appear a bit less robust than the first bed, but they are only one row wide, so appear "thinner".

The third bed was planted June 11, 2019, labeled "PurP6-11-19.JPG", and although only in the ground about three weeks have already emerged through the soil and hay.  If these June-planted potatoes are not finished by frost time this fall, I'll just mulch them heavily and wait for next year.  On the other hand, they should have produced by early October, giving them about four months in the ground.

The comparison in this garden is mainly to evaluate how well this potato can do while overwintering--even though that was not the original plan.  Also, it will be educational to compare the growth here compared to that in RR's Pennsylvania.  It's hard to go wrong with this variety of potato.  Stay tuned
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 06:18:01 PM
Yours are so thick and lush Ilinda!

I like what you did with the chickenwire to hold it all in place.  Thanks so much for posting the pics, and congratulations on succeeding so far with the almond seedlings!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 02, 2019, 07:09:04 PM
Here are links to a couple of .pdf's created by the curators of the Plants for a Future database.  They contain a number of selected permaculture plants suggested for temperate-climate gardening, complete with wonderful full-color illustrations, for a donation to PFAF of $12 each:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JrYL3hyXL._AC_UL320_SR248,320_.jpg)
https://pfaf.org/user/cmspage.aspx?pageid=303

(http://plantsforafuture.com/wp-content/uploads/edd/2014/11/Edible_Cover_Web.jpg)
https://pfaf.org/user/cmspage.aspx?pageid=270
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 03, 2019, 10:01:37 AM
Shade cloth doubles as a wildlife barrier over the June strawberries and mountain cranberries:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179744807_a87620850a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gptMzi)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48179928087_35d92c313c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gpuJ4i)
Good idea for keeping crows, rabbits, etc., away from berries.  How high are the containers in first pic?

Also, your low-rise fence is looking more and more appealing all the time.  Do you buy it or make it?  Can it be rolled up when not in use?  Does it really keep out rabbits?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 03, 2019, 10:14:44 AM
That amounts to several thick folds creating a long narrow strip around the base of the fence.  Of course, that doesn't stop tunneling into the garden from outside the fence, but it seems that all of the mouse holes this year are inside the hen yard, as the hens leave some of their sunflower seeds uneaten each day.  Maybe allowing mice into the biome in this way, contrary to most advice, diverts them away from crops?

Do your chickens eat mice? 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 03, 2019, 02:39:43 PM
No, but the cats do  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 03, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
Quote
How high are the containers in first pic?
Also, your low-rise fence is looking more and more appealing all the time.  Do you buy it or make it?  Can it be rolled up when not in use?  Does it really keep out rabbits?

The tubs are a foot high, and we perforated them in several spots with a drill bit for drainage:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/countyline-oval-galvanized-stock-tank-2-ft-w-x-4-ft-l-x-1-ft-h-40-gal-capacity

(https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/2168692?$456$)

The cedar garden fence is made by Greenes, and comes in 15' rolls from Lowe's for $25.  A narrow garden might need 2 of them, while a larger garden might take 3 or 4.  Sometimes there's extra left over on one garden, and I might let it wrap around and sit there until I need to cut off an extra piece to finish a new bed.  Also, by bending the wires at the ends, you can make "gates" that close by hooking the end of one piece onto a the end of another piece where they meet.. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenes-Actual-15-ft-x-2-ft-White-Pine-Spaced-Picket-Garden-Woven-Wire-Rolled-Fencing/3120271
(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/052144/052144100146.jpg)
These 2' garden fences come in either unfinished natural cedar, or whitewashed cedar.

They go up in minutes.  Tools  needed: a phillips screwdriver to unscrew the long black screw that holds the bale together; heavy pliers for bending wires for "gate" latches, 4' wooden garden stakes, hammer, heavy wire cutters.

I've never seen rabbits this far up the hill, but I've seen them in the valley below, so they don't get into our gardens (so far).  Don't know why they don't come up here; maybe because we're on a rocky outcropping surrounded by a gully and a cliff, and then woods with shallow caves populated by predators such as snakes, feral cats and raccoons.   :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 03, 2019, 05:34:33 PM
Here's a link to a summary of "The Mount Holyoke Experiment" in which permaculturists Eric Toensmeier and Jonathan Bates plant a food forest on their own in-town lot:

http://www.perennialsolutions.org/spring-season-of-perennial-vegetables-in-the-cold-climate-garden
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 04, 2019, 01:42:44 PM
Quote
How high are the containers in first pic?
Also, your low-rise fence is looking more and more appealing all the time.  Do you buy it or make it?  Can it be rolled up when not in use?  Does it really keep out rabbits?

The tubs are a foot high, and we perforated them in several spots with a drill bit for drainage:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/countyline-oval-galvanized-stock-tank-2-ft-w-x-4-ft-l-x-1-ft-h-40-gal-capacity

(https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/2168692?$456$)

The cedar garden fence is made by Greenes, and comes in 15' rolls from Lowe's for $25.  A narrow garden might need 2 of them, while a larger garden might take 3 or 4.  Sometimes there's extra left over on one garden, and I might let it wrap around and sit there until I need to cut off an extra piece to finish a new bed.  Also, by bending the wires at the ends, you can make "gates" that close by hooking the end of one piece onto a the end of another piece where they meet.. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenes-Actual-15-ft-x-2-ft-White-Pine-Spaced-Picket-Garden-Woven-Wire-Rolled-Fencing/3120271
(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/052144/052144100146.jpg)
These 2' garden fences come in either unfinished natural cedar, or whitewashed cedar.

They go up in minutes.  Tools  needed: a phillips screwdriver to unscrew the long black screw that holds the bale together; heavy pliers for bending wires for "gate" latches, 4' wooden garden stakes, hammer, heavy wire cutters.

I've never seen rabbits this far up the hill, but I've seen them in the valley below, so they don't get into our gardens (so far).  Don't know why they don't come up here; maybe because we're on a rocky outcropping surrounded by a gully and a cliff, and then woods with shallow caves populated by predators such as snakes, feral cats and raccoons.   :)
Both the stock tank and the little fence look useful.  For here though I fear the fence would just slow down a rabbit, rather than prevent entry.  Have you ever had anything protected by the little stick fence down in the valley where the rabbits are?  That might be the best test to see if they prevent rabbit entry.  Do raccoons go over the fence?

Ive read that deer and rabbits usually won't go over a fence if they cannot see what's inside, thus a tall, transparent fence might be less useful than a shorter one that is somewhat dense and more of a barrier.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 05, 2019, 04:27:13 AM
We don't plant any cultivated gardens at the bottom of the hill - just in escarpments up the hillside.

These little fences may not be useful for every situation.  For us, they serve several purposes that might not apply elsewhere:

1. Keeping poultry out of gardens while allowing them to graze freely outside the fences (eliminating the need for rotating fenced grazing pasture)

2. Establishing a visual boundary between where I need to weed and where I don't (really important here, as nature quickly overtakes any untended space by sending up vines and brambles - to the extent that my sons could literally swing on the thick "Tarzan" vines hanging from the trees until the boys were grown)

3. Creating spaces to put compost, and holding it in place for planting

4. Marking paths to mow

5. Discouraging animals and people from treading on the gardens as they would on open ground, preventing soil compaction

So these won't block any creature that's determined to get inside the fence, but will encourage them to take an easier path elsewhere.  Adding shade cloth over shorter crops may also help achieve that, as well as stapling metal screen mesh or stronger hardware cloth at the bottom.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 05, 2019, 02:30:00 PM
Good clarification!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 16, 2019, 05:04:41 PM
Here's an older but fairly comprehensive list of permaculture rootstock sources in North America, alphabetized first by Canadian province and then by American state (preceded by PFAF in the UK).  Most will ship to your home.  I've done my best to comb through the list and eliminate dead links and places that have gone out of business usually due to the death of the owner, as well as adding vital new sources that have moved into position as younger permaculture leaders in North America.  Finally, I have not included Etsy and Ebay among the physical locations below, but they can be valuable sources of extremely rare rootstock cultivars not easily sourced elsewhere, often due to having been bred on a smaller farm.

Please feel free to add to this list or report bad links  :)

http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/PlntNursrys.htm#US

Note: I was saddened to see that a large percentage of the old permaculturist family farms in California had disappeared from this list, and was reminded of 2018...

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Quote
Before ordering seeds or plants, be sure to visit Plants For a Future
It's an amazing searchable database and an excellent tool for Permaculture designers, landscapers, gardeners and farmers.
Plants for a Future On-Line http://www.pfaf.org/ maintains a big database of 7000+ plants for permaculture, lots of leaflets and a plant catalogue, and a book by Ken Fern on useful plants.
The Field, Penpol, Lostwithiel, Cornwall, PL22 0NG, England Telephone Bodmin (+44 1208) 872963

Fruit and Nut Research and Information Center http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/

Northern Nut Growers Association http://www.northernnutgrowers.org/

Canada: Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Alberta

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DNA Gardens - Alberta grower specializing in fruit hardy on the northern Great Plains, including a broad variety of saskatoons, sea buckthorn, blackcurrants and pin- and choke-cherries. 403.773.2489  403.773.2400 fax 1.866.687.5268 (toll free) Box 544, Elnora AB, T0M 0Y0 CANADA

British Columbia

(http://www.appleluscious.com/images/header.jpg)
Apple Luscious Organic Orchard
Harry & Debbie Burton,
110 Heidi Place, Salt Spring Island, BC, V8K-1W5, 250-653-2007
Over 200 apple varieties, specializing in heritage, connoisseur and red-fleshed varieties.

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Quote
Tree Eater Nursery
We are a small mixed permaculturally-oriented homestead farm situated on 40 acres.
2000 North Central Rd. Denman Island, BC. V0R 1T0. 250-335-0970

Manitoba

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Sage Garden Herbs, (204) 257-2715 Fax: (204) 256-1847
sage@herbs.mb.ca
3410 St. Mary's Road, Winnipeg, Manitoba R2N 4E2 Canada

New Brunswick

(https://www.cornhillnursery.com/img/logo.png)
Corn Hill Nursery, RR 5, Petitcodiac, NB E0A 2H0.  (506) 756-3635. Antique apples and other fruit.  No fruit trees to the US.

Newfoundland and Labrador
 Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Northwest Territories
Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Nova Scotia
Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Nunavut
Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Ontario

(http://www.florabundaseeds.com/images/florabunda_seeds_top.jpg)
Quote
Florabunda Seeds is a company dedicated to preserving old species of flowers, many of which are the parents of today's modern hybrids. These are the flowers of the English cottage gardens of the past, often having been salvaged from abbeys and monasteries in England in the middle ages. Others were brought back to Britain by plantsmen who were sent out on plant-hunting expeditions around the world. 1973 Villiers Line, RR1, Indian River, ON Canada K0L 2B0 | (705) 295-6440 (TEL) | (705) 295-4035 (FAX) | contact@florabundaseeds.com
(705) 295-6440 [TEL] - (705)295-4035 [FAX] 

(https://www.grimonut.com/shared/skins/default/images/logo.png)
Grimo Nut Nursery, 979 Lakeshore Rd., R.R. 3, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada LOS 1JO Our aim is to provide you with the best, most hardy nut trees, tree products, and nut products. http://www.grimonut.com/           nuttrees@grimonut.com

Hardy Grapes for the Canada Cold
Over 60 grape varieties.  Mostly dormant rootless grape cutting; some rooted cuttings, and a few potted grapes.
Bert Dunn    RR4 Tottenham   Ont    zone 4b

(http://www.nuttrees.com/images/layout/logo.png)
Rhora's Nut Farm & Nursery: Charles A. Rhora, R.R. #1, 32983 Wills Road, Wainfleet, Ontario, L0S 1V0
Tel/fax 905-899-3508
http://www.nuttrees.com/         rhoras@nuttrees.com

(https://www.richters.com/Icons/richters-transparent_small.gif)
Quote
RICHTERS HERBS, 357 Highway 47, Goodwood, ON L0C 1A0 Canada
If you grow your own herbs or make your own herbal products, or if you are in the business of herbs, make Richters your destination.

Richters has been growing and selling herbs since 1969. Our first catalogue dedicated to herbs came out in 1970. We have lived, worked and breathed herbs ever since.

Prince Edward Island

Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/83cb7fb5-a4bf-49a1-a27d-de525657fc16/logo/b1055b3c-8878-470a-bb7d-2fa446b29a3e.gif/:/rs=h:250/qt=q:95)
Strawberry Tyme: 1250 St John's Rd W, Simcoe, ON N3Y 4K1
PH 519-426-3099, FX 519-426-2573, Email styme@kwic.com

Quebec

The Garlic Clubb: Contact Mr. Jimmy Clubb, 3 Chemin Tuer, Bolton-Ouest, QC J0E 2T0 sales@garlicclubb.com
Quote
Since the fall of the “Soviet Union” in 1989, hundreds of previously unknown garlic cultivars began finding their way into North America...The Garlic Clubb planted its first garlic in Quebec’s Eastern Townships in October 2015.  We now have 17 different varieties under cultivation. and are planning to increase our range to a total of 42 different varieties this Fall! Our goal is to establish a full range of garlic cultivars from the 10 main garlic groups.

(https://cdn2.shopify.com/s/files/1/0373/9873/t/2/assets/logo.png?0)
The Green Barn Nursery
2103 Blvd. Perrot Blvd, Notre-Dame-de-l'Île-Perrot, Quebec J7V 8P4
Mailing address: 9 Marie-Marthe-Daoust, Notre-Dame-de-l'Île-Perrot, Quebec J7V 9Y9
Phone: 514-646-1340 Email: info@greenbarnnursery.ca

Saskatchewan
Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

Yukon
Still working on this section. Please send recommendations.

United States:

Alabama

Village Arbors, 1804 Saugahatchee Rd., Auburn, AL 36830, 1-800-288-5033 -- mostly perennials and extensive cvs. of herbs and scented geraniums.

Classical Fruits, the Adairs, 8831 AL Highway 157, Moulton, AL 35650. (205) 974-8813.  Large selection of fruit varieties including new disease-resistant ones.

Neighbors Nursery,  Joyce Neighbors, 1039 Lay Springs Rd., Gadsden, AL 35904   (256) 546-7441.  Sells scionwood of old southern apples and other antique varieties.  Free list of scions available for shipping  in February and March.
e-mail jneighbr@internetpro.net

Sherwood’s Greenhouses, J. S. Akin, PO Box 6, Sibley, LA   71073. (318) 377-3653.  Southern fruit, including mayhaw.  Send SASE for list.

Alaska (please suggest sources for this region)

Jerry Appleseed Nursery, P.O. Box 6292, Ketchikan, ALASKA 99901 (907) 225-5098) (far southern Alaska) has a mail-order catalog for Alaskan customers.   Jerrold Koerner has plans to expand this to all 50 states in the future.  He has many varieties of early-ripening apples.

Arizona (please suggest sources for this region)

Arkansas

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807 Cedar Lane, Prairie Grove, AR 72753 (479)846-6030 https://www.berriesunlimited.com/

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/BostonMt.jpg)
Boston Mountain Nursery - Arkansas nursery selling brambles, grapes, blueberries and elderberries.
20189 North Hwy. 71 Mountainburg, Arkansas 72946 USA http://www.alcasoft.com/bostonmountain/
Telephone and Fax: (479) 369-2007
E-Mail: pense@valuelinx.net

(https://www.blossomnursery.com/images/pawpawlogo_large.jpg)
Blossom Nursery - Arkansas-based nursery offering pawpaw seeds and seedlings and ginkgo seeds.
https://www.blossomnursery.com/

Enoch's Berry Farm:
Arkansas family farm selling the patented University of Arkansas "Indian tribe" series of blackberries. 1722 MC 40, Fouke AR 71837  870.653.2512  http://berryfarm.com/berryfarm.com/Home.html

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Pense Nursery - Arkansas-based growers of berry plants and grape vines.
Ordering by fax, phone or mail.  2318 hwy 71 N.E. Mountainburg, AR 72946 USA.
Phone: (479) 369-2494 E-Mail: pensefarms@centurytel.net   https://www.penseberryfarm.com/

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Simmons Plant Farm - Specializing in grapevines (including muscadines), black-, rasp- and boysenberry plants and rabbiteye blueberry.11542 N Hwy 71, Mountainburg, AR 72946
Phone: 479-369-2345    Fax: 479-369-2345    E-mail: simmonsplantfarm@hotmail.com
https://www.simmonsplantfarm.com/

(http://www.alcasoft.com/winfrey/images/logo.jpg)
Bramble Berry Farm - Arkansas-based nursery specializing in small fruit plants: grape, blackberry, raspberry, blueberry, gooseberry, dewberry, elderberry and boysenberry, as well as fruit trees.
P. O. Box 327 Winslow, Arkansas 72959 USA   Office Ph. & Fax: (479) 369-1705 Cell: (479)414-4844
E-mail: rpense@wildblue.net http://www.alcasoft.com/winfrey/

California

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/allies.jpeg)
Allies, Catalog $2 PO Box 2422, Sebastopol, CA 95473, The first catalog to offer a wide variety of entheogens and ethnobotanicals.
http://www.alliesonline.net/resources.html

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Bamboo Sourcery  666 Wagnon Road, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 823-5866 (707) 829-8106 (fax), Bamboo specialists, offering over 300 varieties of bamboo plants at our 8 acre nursery and farm in northern California.

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/BayLaurel.jpg)
Bay Laurel Nursery and Catalog - California nursery offering bareroot deciduous fruit, nut and edible vines by mailorder. Retail outlet for Dave Wilson trees.
2500 El Camino Real, Atascadero CA 93422    Tel 805 466 3406 - Fax 805 466 6455

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/BPC.gif)
Botanical Preservation Corps, Catalog $2 PO Box 1368, Sebastopol, CA 95473 FAX 707-874-1910. Included in this new catalog are ethnobotanical products (essences, extracts, dried herbs), mushroom products, extraction equipment, ethnobotanical artifacts, botanical field collection gear and tapes and videos from the entheobotany shamanic plant seminars that the BPC holds each year. http://www.botanicalpreservationcorps.com/

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Burchell Nursery - California-based wholesale nursery selling almond, apple, nectarine, peach, plum, nectarine and walnut trees to orchardists. 12,000 Highway 120 Oakdale, CA 95361     209.845.8733 phone 209.847.1972 fax 800.828.8733 toll free

California Tropical Fruit Tree Nursery - A Southern California nursery offering rare and common tropical fruit trees. Ten tree minimum for mail orders. Vista California, Tel: (760) 434-5085 E-mail: collectibles1234@sbcglobal.net

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Dave Wilson Nursery - California-based wholesale nursery providing rare fruit species and rare cultivars of common fruit species to retail garden centers and orchardists. Offers a wide selection of fruit and nut trees and grapevines to the wholesale and commercial industry. Their extensive web site gives links to retail and mail order sources for their trees.

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Digging Dog Nursery - a mail order plant nursery on the Mendocino Coast of California, PO box 471, Albion, CA 95410 phone: (707) 937-1130

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/FarWestBulbFarm.jpeg)
Far West Bulb Farm  http://californianativebulbs.com/
14499 Lower Colfax Rd, Grass Valley, CA 95945 (530) 272-4775, nancyames@accessbee.com

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Four Winds Growers - California based grower of dwarf citrus, including grapefruit, kaffir lime, lemon, lime, orange, tangerine. lso Avocado, Blueberry, Cane Berry, Fig, Grape, Jujube, Multi-grafted Deciduous fruit trees, Olive, Persimmon, and Pomegranate.

(http://www.greenmantlenursery.com/images2008/logo-smaller550.jpg)
Greenmantle Nursery. 3010 Ettersburg Rd., Garberville, CA 95542, tel. 707-986-7504 Ram and Marissa Fishman's small California nursery specializes in fruit trees and nuts for homesteaders. Their nursery stock includes antique apples that originated locally, plus pears, plums, peaches, and other fruits and nuts. Custom grafting available.  http://www.greenmantlenursery.com

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Harmony Farm Supply and Nursery, PO Box 460 / Graton, CA / 95444 / Tel: 707-823-9125 / Fax: 707-823-1734 /

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Lassen Canyon Nursery: Mailing Address: PO Box 992400 Redding, CA. 96099
Physical Address: 1300 Salmon Creek Rd Redding, CA 96003
Phone: (530) 223-1075 Fax: (530) 223-6754 E-mail: info@lassencanyonnursery.com
Specializes in strawberry cultivars

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Paradise Nursery- Growers of rare fruit trees. Specializing in persian fruit trees and plants. For over 20 years now, Dr. Majid Jahanbin and his dedicated family at Paradise Nursery have been growing the highest quality fruit trees, citrus, and Mediterranean landscape plants. Paradise Nursery is proud to provide rare Persian plants like Pomegranates (Anar), Mulberries (Toot), Sour Cherries (Albaloo), and Iranian White Jasmine to name a few. Since the beginning their horticultural and landscape experience has been sought after to consult, design, develop, and manage beautiful and highly productive gardens and home orchards in Southern California.
10943 De soto Avenue Chatsworth, Ca 91311, Phone: 818-701-5656     

SACRED SUCCULENTS: A mail order nursery specializing in rare & endangered cacti & other succulent plants & seeds of ethnobotanical interest. They even have plants & seeds of some of the herbs offered through Botanical Preservation Corps. They have a beautifully illustrated and highly informative catalog. Send $2 to: S.S., P.O. Box 781, Sebastopol, CA 95473 USA www.sacredsucculents.com

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Sandy Bar Ranch & Nursery - California seller of organic bareroot fruit and nut trees, including heirloom varieties.

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The Theodore Payne Foundation for Wildflowers & Native Plants, Inc. 10459 Tuxford Street Sun Valley, California 91352-2126 phone (818) 768-1802 FAX (818) 768-5215 Wildflower Hotline (818) 768-3533 http://www.theodorepayne.org/
general mailbox: info@theodorepayne.org seed orders and inquiries: seeds@theodorepayne.org wildflower hotline flowerhotline@theodorepayne.org

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Trees of Antiquity, 20 Wellsona Road, Paso Robles, CA 93446
Phone: (805) 467-9909   Fax: (805) 467-9909 http://www.treesofantiquity.com/

Colorado (please suggest sources for this region)

Connecticut

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Cricket Hill Garden, 670 Walnut Hill Rd, Thomaston, CT 06787  dan@crickethillgarden.com, tel. 860-283-1042, has persimmon trees for sale  https://www.treepeony.com/

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Logee's: https://www.logees.com/ , 141 North Street, Danielson, CT 06239, Toll Free - (888) 330-8038, info@logees.com, fruit plants including some rare ones

Delaware (please suggest sources for this region)

Florida

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Brite Leaf Citrus Nursery - order@briteleaf.com 480 CR 416 S Lake Panasoffkee, FL 33538

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Chestnut Hill Tree Farm
Specializing in low-chill fruit varieties developed by the University of Fla. Will help you select & grow the right varieties of low chill apples, peaches, nectarines, plums, pears, Kaki persimmons, blueberries, blackberries, grapes, & figs. A wide assortment of other fruit and flowering trees for the SE United States. 15105 NW 94 Ave, Alachua FL 32615
800-669-2067 toll free, 386-462-2820 local, 386-462-4330 fax
email: chestnuthilltreefarm@gmail.com

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ECHO
17430 Durrance Rd. No. Ft. Myers, FL 33917, ( Cat. $1) -- non-profit Christian research organization spec. in underexploited tropical food plants.

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Florida Hill Nursery, P.O. Box 530318, Debary, FL 32753
Alocasia, Bananas, Caladium, Canna, Colocasia, Dragon fruit, Figs, Fruits -n- Berries, Garden Tools, Ginger, Grapes, House plants, Iris, Kiwi, Living wall plants, Orchids, Organic Fertilizers, Papaya, Passion fruit, Philodendron, Pineapple, Terrarium plants

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Going Bananas -  24401 SW 197 Avenue, Homestead, Florida 33031
Specializes only in banana cultivars and tropical trees.

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Just Fruits and Exotics: Phone: (850) 926-5644, Email: info@justfruitsandexotics.com , Facebook: facebook.com/justfruit , Address:  30 Saint Frances Street, Crawfordville, FL 32327

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Salter Tree and Herb Farm, Rt. 2, Box 1332, Madison, FL 32340, 904-973-6312 (Cat. SASE)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 16, 2019, 05:10:13 PM
Cont'd:

Georgia

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Ison's Nursery & Vineyards, Rt. 1, Box 190, Brooks, GA 30205. Telephone (770)599-6970 (800)733-0324 Fax (770)599-1727 fruit and nut trees for the South, spec. in muscadines and scuppernongs (over 40 var.) Since our grandfather planted the first muscadine vine in 1934, the Ison family has enjoyed a long relationship with the muscadine grape. What started out as a modest 3 acre vineyard has evolved into more than 40 acres of vineyard and a nursery offering over 200 varieties of fruit, nut and berry plants.  We now have 22 patented varieties of muscadine!

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Jenes Tropicals - Specializes in many varieties of citrus trees, including many unusual types, such as Uglies, Clementine mandarin, Moro, Torocco and Sanquinelli Blood oranges, Cara Cara red navel, Pommelos, Buddhas hand citron and others. We sell trees in all sizes.
We carry an awesome selection of tropical fruit trees, including Miracle fruit, jakfruit, sapotes, atemoyas and guavas. We sell over 40 types of delicious mangoes, including Asian and Indian varieties. We carry 8 types of Avocado trees, many of which are fairly cold tolerant.
We specialize in 'Dwarf Condo' fruit trees. We sell dwarf Wurtz avocado, Julie, Cogshall, Pickering and Ice Cream dwarf mangoes, dwarf Emperor and Sweet Cliff lychees, Celeste fig, dwarf mulberry and many varieties of dwarf citrus trees.

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Johnson Nursery. 5273 Hwy 52E, Ellijay, GA 30540, tel. 888-276-3187 (toll-free) and 706-276-3187, fax 706-276-3186, e-mail jninc@ellijay.com , http://www.johnsonnursery.com This North Georgia Mountain nursery run by Bill and Elisa Ford specializes in apples, both antique and modern varieties for the South. Pears, peaches and nectarines, plums, cherries, grapes, and a selection of other small fruits are available also. Antiques and disease-resistant types included. Catalog free.

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Thigpen Trail Bamboo Farm 6273 Thigpen Trail, Doerun, GA 31744
We are a family-owned and operated farm and nursery specializing in bamboo. We grow over 100 varieties of bamboo, both non-invasive and grove-forming species. When you buy your bamboo from us, you are not only buying the plant. We will take the time to listen to your needs and help you decide which bamboo makes the most sense for you.
Wholesale/Retail 229-782-7455    706-255-4901
Katie & Tracy Cato    info@thigpentrailbamboo.com

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TyTy Nursery - This Georgia-state based nursery specializing in trees for the American south-cold hardy citrus and bananas, figs, jujubes, persimmons, pomegranates, pecans, and low-chill berry varieties. We offer the highest quality but affordable products shipped directly to you. We love our nursery and we aim to do everything we can to help our customers find what they need. We take immense joy in educating our customers on plant life, which is why we invite you to call if you have any questions or concerns. We also provide a video page on our website that shows some helpful planting instructions.

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https://www.willisorchards.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CPCS_Search_Brand%20Campaign&utm_term=willis%20orchard%20company&utm_content=willis%20orchard
1-866-586-6283, 200 McCormick Rd, Cartersville, GA 30120, orders@willisorchards.com

Hawaii (please suggest sources for this region)
Fruit Lover's Nursery - Hawaii-based nursery specializing in rare and exotic tropical fruit trees and seeds.

Idaho (please suggest sources for this region)

Illinois

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Farmer Seed and Nursery: 1706 Morrissey Drive, Bloomington, IL 61704-7107  (507) 334-1623 https://www.farmerseed.com/

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North American Fruit Explorers: Rt. 1 Box 94 Chapin IL 62628
(NAFEX) is a network of individuals throughout the United States and Canada devoted to the discovery, cultivation and appreciation of superior varieties of fruits and nuts.

Indiana

Backyard Berry Plants & Hazelbrake Farm - 3267 T.C. Steele Rd. Nashville, IN 47448    812-988-0579   keith@backyardberryplants.com Specializing in Organically Grown Blueberry, Black berry, and Raspberry Plants http://backyardberryplants.com/
All of our plants are grown without the use of chemical pesticides, fungicides, or fertilizers. We use alfalfa and kelp meal, worm castings, rock minerals, fish emulsion (OMRI certified), and compost as our fertilizers. We also sell soil amendments.

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Brambleberry Farm. Permaculture-based consulting, education and stock for today’s homesteader. Esprí and Darren Bender-Beauregard, 1668 E CR 100 N, Paoli, IN 47454
We began Brambleberry Farm in the fall of 2003 on land that we share with Esprí’s parents in the beautiful hills of Southern Indiana. Our garden beds lie on old meadow land that has not been touched by plow or tiller for over 30 years. Instead of plowing up the sod using heavy machinery, we created garden beds using no-till methods. We never use synthetic pesticides or fertilizers on our gardens, and follow organic farming methods. We believe that food should be healthy and nutritious not only to the consumers, but also to the larger environment.

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Gardens Alive, 5100 Schenley Place, Lawrenceburg, Indiana 47025 (513) 354-1482
https://www.gardensalive.com/?p=0176066&msclkid=ab8fb3f235a61ae93231eec6b1b8b61a&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brand&utm_term=gardens%20alive&utm_content=Gardens%20Alive

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Gurney's Seed & Nursery Co. P.O. Box 4178, Greendale, IN 47025-4178
(513) 354-1491     Fax: (513) 354-1493  https://www.gurneys.com/

North Star Gardens, specializes in raspberries for the whole country. Now sharing catalog and addresses with Indiana Berry and Plant Co., 5218 W.500 South, Huntingburg, IN 47542. (800) 295-2226

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Indiana Berry and Plant Co., 5218 W.500 South, Huntingburg, IN 47542. (800) 295-2226
http://www.indianaberry.com/

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Henry Field's Seed & Nursery Co., P.O. Box 397, Aurora, IN 47001-0397  Order: (513) 354-1494
Customer Service: (513) 354-1495   Fax: (513) 354-1496 Carries a large selection of fruit varieties including several new releases not available to the commercial market.
https://www.henryfields.com/?p=0643252&msclkid=c8f7110fda7a1f1b7f444c3b5e1972a7&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brand%20-&utm_term=henry%20fields&utm_content=Henry%20Field%27s%20Alone

Needmore Bamboo Nursery
My nursery is located in the beautiful rolling hills of Brown County in southern Indiana in USDA climate zone 6 and Sunset zone 35.
The nursery is open by appointment; mail orders may be arranged upon request depending upon availability. Give me a call at 812 988-6896 or email me at info@needmorebamboo.com to arrange your visit.

Iowa

Soil and Water Conservation Society. 1987. "Sources of Native Seeds and Plants." SWCS, 7515 NE Ankeny Rd., Ankeny, IA 50021- $3 ppd - 32 pg. listing of 243 sources of native shrubs and trees.

Kansas

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Wagon Wheel Orchard, a small family-owned and operated orchard situated on the California and Oregon trails in western rural Johnson County, Kansas, specializing in variety in apples, peaches, more....!
http://www.wagonwheelorchard.com/
Blog: http://www.wagonwheelorchard.blogspot.com/

Kentucky

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https://bluegrassblueberries.com/
container-grown highbush and rabbiteye blueberry plants. Blueberries happen to be one of the most disease-resistant plants in North America. We believe that with the proper soil preparation, pest/disease prevention and common-sense care, they have the ability to provide years of health benefits – naturally. Bluegrass Blueberries grow blueberry plants that are NON-GMO. In addition, all products used to treat our nursery are OMRI-Certified. If you would like detailed information about the treatment and growing of our nursery stock, please feel free to call our office anytime at 270-432-5836.

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England's Orchard and Nursery, 316 S.R 2004 McKee, KY. 40447-9616. Send for catalogue or e-mail nuttrees@prtcnet.org , Ph toll free 877-965-2228 Specializing in nut trees for alternative crops.
http://www.nuttrees.net
This seasons nut crop is in.. Be sure to stock up for the fall on Hickories (shell-bark [the big ones] and shag-Bark [the tasty ones]), Black walnuts, heartnuts, chestnuts, pawpaws, etc.  http://www.nuttrees.net/nuts.html

Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery - Pawpaw, black and persian walnut, heartnut, butternut, chestnut, pecan, hican, shagbark and shellbark hickory and persimmon trees. Order by phone, fax or e-mail. Will also custom graft. 797 Port Wooden Rd., Upton, KY 42784   (270) 369-8551 Mon.-Sat. 7-7 C.T.

Louisiana

The Durios, Route 7, Box 43, Opelousas, LA   70570. (318) 948-3696.  Fruiting trees shrubs, vines, and many other plants including magnolias.  Catalog $6 or free list.

Maine

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Fedco Trees. P.O. Box 520, Waterville, ME 04903-0520, tel. 207-873-7333 (-SEED), fax 207-872-8317 Roberta and John Bunker, Coordinators of Fedco Trees, sell hardy tree fruits and nuts, small fruits, and berries, as well as ornamentals. Plants are supplied by several nurseries, including small-scale Maine growers. Informative catalog lists several old Maine apple trees and other heirlooms, plus fruit books and orcharding supplies. Grafted bareroot trees available, also special orders. http://www.fedcoseeds.com/trees.htm

Maryland  (please suggest sources for this region)

Massachusetts

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NOURSE FARMS INC 41 River Road - South Deerfield, MA 01373 Monday - Phone (413) 665-2658 or Fax (413) 665-7888 We offer many varieties of strawberries, raspberries (summer and fall bearing) blackberries, blueberries, currants and gooseberries, as well as asparagus roots, rhubarb divisions, and horseradish sets.
http://www.noursefarms.com/

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Tripple Brook Farm, 37 Middle Rd., Southhampton, MA 01073 -- http://tripplebrookfarm.com/index.html fruits, berries, misc. No pesticides. Eastern native plants. Under-used cold-hardy exotics. Over 300 species. catalog-request@tripplebrookfarm.com

Michigan

Bluebird Orchard & Nursery. 4711 3-Mile Rd. NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525, tel. 616-837-9598 Tim Strickler, Owner, sells scionwood from 170+ apple cultivars, both old and new varieties, and including numerous old southern apples and unique local varieties. (Although the nursery has a Michigan address, the orchards are located in southwestern Virginia, zone 6.)

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Cold Stream Farm. 2030 Free Soil Rd., Free Soil, MI 49411-9752, 616-464-5809. Deciduous shrubs, berries, trees, conifers, specializing in hybrid poplars. www.coldstreamfarm.net/

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Daisy Farms - Michigan based sellers of a variety of strawberry varieties, as well as blueberries, raspberries, rhubarb and horseradish.

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DeGrandchamps Farms - Michiganders selling blueberry, cranberry and lingonberries to commercial growers and select cultivar packages to homeowners.

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Garden Crossings: https://www.gardencrossings.com/
(616) 875-6355, 4902 96th Ave, Zeeland, MI 49464, sales@gardencrossings.com

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https://www.grandpasorchard.com/  P.O. Box 773 Coloma, MI 49038 Toll Free: 877-800-0077
Phone: 269-468-7050 Fax: 269-468-6510

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Hartmann's Plant Company, PO Box 100, Lacota MI 49063.  Sells many varieties of blueberries and other small fruits.

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Krohne Plant Farms: 65295 County Road 342, Hartford, MI 49507, Phone number:
269-424-5423, Email: info@krohneplantfarms.com  Specializing in strawberry plants

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Morse Nursery, 12300 Betz Rd, Battle Creek MI 49015 (800) 338-2105 Specializes in trees that produce fruit and acorns to attract and feed wildlife, such as persimmon, paw paw, wild pear, crabapple, etc.

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Nash Nurseries, 4975 W. Grand River Rd., Owosso, MI 48867-9292. (517) 651-5278
Container stock of grafted pawpaw, hybrid chestnuts, pine nuts & fruit trees.

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Oikos Tree Crops, POBox 19425, Kalamazoo, MI 49019-0425. Ph: (616) 624-6233 Fax: (616) 624-4019 Edible native fruits, nuts, oaks, tubers and perennials. Highly recommended. http://oikostreecrops.com/

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Raindance Organic Farm https://www.raindanceorganic.com/farm-stand  24 varieties of organically raised garlic.

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Southmeadow Fruit Gardens P.O. Box 211, 10603 Cleveland Ave., Baroda, MI 49101, tel. 616-422-2411, fax 616-422-1464 Theo Gröotendorst, Owner "Choice and unusual fruit tree varieties for the connoisseur and home gardener." This long-established Michigan firm sells more than 250 apple trees (including many antique varieties from all over North America, European varieties, and old English cider apples), plus a good selection of commercial apple varieties, crab apples, pears, stone fruits, grapes, currants and gooseberries, and conservation fruits (i.e., hardy natives attractive to wildlife and people). Rootstocks are sold also. Price and variety list free.

Minnesota

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Aberfoyle Vineyards & Nursery, 58143 111th St., Mapleton, MN 56065   612-481-8115
Specializes in the most cold hardy wine and table grapes from the University of MN and other private breeders
http://www.aberfoyle.org

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Badgersett Research Farm and Nursery, RR 1, Box 141, Canton Mn. 55922, 507-743-5870, http://www.badgersett.com/  Specializing in nut trees and shrubs.

(http://honeyberryusa.com/widgets/gen_425.1.gif) Honeyberry USA Nursery: PO Box 512 Bagley, MN 56621 telephone: 218-331-8070, 19736 350th St Bagley, MN 56621 1/2 mi south, 1.3 mi east of Bagley

Lake Sylvia Vineyard Nursery, 13375 51st Avenue, South Haven, MN 55382.  Hardy grapevines.

Mississippi

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Bass Pecan Trees: 3958 Oakley Road, Raymond, MS, 39154, Phone: (601) 857-6177, Email:
customerservice@basspecan.com

Missouri

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Goods From the Woods, 14125 Hwy C, Licking, MO 65542        573-674-4567       1-800-267-6680        pinenuts@pinenut.com         http://www.pinenut.com/

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Stark Brother's Nursery
Email: info@starkbros.com Phone:800.325.4180 Fax:573.754.3701
P.O. Box 1800, Louisiana, MO 63353

Montana

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http://mcseeds.com/  (Formerly Lawyer Seeds)

Nebraska

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Phone: (402)934-8116 | Fax: (402)991-0778
3334 North 88th Plaza, Omaha, Nebraska 68134

Nevada (please suggest sources for this region)

New Hampshire (please suggest sources for this region)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 16, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
Wow, RR, thanks for posting this absolutely incredible permaculture resource directory!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 16, 2019, 05:43:23 PM
New Jersey

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Grover's Blueberries: http://www.groversblueberries.com/blueberry-bushes-c-57.html
Pemberton, New Jersey 08068, 609-284-9839

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Waterford Gardens, 74 East Allendale Rd., Saddle River, NJ / 07458, 201-327-0721 (Cat. $4) -- water plants and supplies, esp. edible aquatics.

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/wild_ridge.jpg)Wild Ridge Plants: growing locally adapted native plants and educating and consulting on their uses, ecology, and stewardship. Located in Pohatcong, NJ.

New Mexico

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Plants of the Southwest, Agua Fria, Rt 6 Box 11A, Santa Fe, NM 87501. http://www.plantsofthesouthwest.com/ Wildflowers, Wildflower Mixes, Grasses, Trees and Shrubs, Evergreen Trees, Vegetables and Herbs, Chiles. Seeds and plants. - Order: (800) 788-7333

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Road's End Farm and Nursery: Located at Silver Maple Ave, Moriarty, NM 87034, https://www.thefruitgrowers.com/shipping-local-pickup , NMFruitGrowers@aol.com , 505-281-1013,
has an assortment of orchard trees and shrubs

New York

Christian Homesteading Movement. Oxford, NY 13830-0971 The Fahey family sells more than 200 varieties of apples as scionwood only (A to L varieties available in even years, M-Z in odd years). They also sell supply scionwood from 12 pears, 27 plums, 14 cherries, and 2 mulberries. Orchards are maintained organically and include a breeding program for disease resistant and long-keeping apples. Send SASE for brochure listing varieties available (includes a list of the best apples for no-spray organic culture).

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Cummins Nursery. 18 Glass Factory Bay Rd., Geneva, NY 14456, tel. 315-789-7083, e-mail Stephen and James Cummins' small family-run nursery specializes in antique, unusual, and disease-resistant fruit trees. The firm's selection of custom-grafted trees (and rootstocks) includes apples (14 cider apples and 26 antiques), pears, apricots, peaches, and others; small fruits are available also in their 1999 catalog. Cummins Nursery is successor to the New York State Fruit Tree Association; father Dr. James Cummins is a retired Cornell University root stock breeder. Catalog free. http://www.cumminsnursery.com/

Edible Acres: Located just north of Trumansburg, NY in the beautiful Finger Lakes, we are a permaculture nursery and forest farm research space focused on low and no tech solutions.
We offer a huge array of useful plants and provide consultation, design and land management services in our region. We aren't offering shipping yet, but if you are in the region this could be a great way to get a ton of your permaculture plants from a nursery that only uses home made potting mix with biochar, recycled pots and never any chemicals. Contact: Sean Dembrosky 607-342-4953

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Food Forest Farm is Bates and Toensmeiers' "Mount Holyoke Experiment" originally sited only on an urban lot, and then expanded as other land became available.  The store moved to New York, while the permaculture institute remained in Massachusetts.  http://www.foodforestfarm.com/shop
413-588-8435.  info@foodforestfarm.com

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Harris Seeds: https://www.harrisseeds.com/
Phone: 800.544.7938, Fax: 877.892.9197, 355 Paul Rd., P.O. Box 24966, Rochester , NY 14624

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Henry Leuthardt Nursery, Montauk Highway, Box 666, East Moriches, Long Island, NY   11940.  (516) 878-1387.  Specializes in dwarf and espalier-trained fruit trees.  Antique and European varieties.  Catalog $1.

Miller Nurseries, 5060 West Lake Road, Canandaigua, NY   14424. (800) 836-9630.  New and old fruit.
(Supplier to Stark Brothers in Missouri)

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St. Lawrence Nurseries, 325 State Hwy. 345, Potsdam, NY 13676, tel. 315-265-6739, e-mail http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us From their small, family-run operation near the New York-Ontario border, Bill and Diana MacKentley specialize in fruits and nut trees for northern climates. Nursery stock is managed organically. Varieties offered in the firm's 1998 catalog include tree fruits (apples, plums, and others), nut trees, small fruits (grapes, blueberries, and others), and "edible ornamentals" attractive to wildlife. The apple selection (over 120 varieties) consists of many old types and disease-resistant lines, with informative entries on origins and other characteristics; other classic fruits are available also. Since the 1920s. Catalog free.

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Wafler Nursery - Western New York State nursery providing apple trees to the commercial grower. Wafler Nursery is a family run business since 1962. We specialize in growing fruit trees. Over the years, through innovation and hard work, we have been able to keep your trust in our quality product and to win new customers by that reputation. All of us at Wafler Nursery make it our goal to deliver the highest quality trees possible to our customers.

North Carolina

American Forest Food Corporation. PO Box 2196, Hendersonville, NC 27536, 919-438-2674 -- shiitake and exotic mushroom spawn.

Boothe Hill Tea Co. 23B Boothhill Rd., Chapel Hill, NC 27514, 919-967-4091- native wildflowers, ferns, herbs, everlastings.

Calhoun's Nursery 295 Blacktwig Rd., Pittsboro, NC 27312, tel. 919-542-4480 Lee and Edith Calhoun sell antique apples that originated or were widely grown in the South, and they are the only commercial source for several dozen old varieties. Catalog describes two dozen old southern apples and additional named cultivars (almost 200) are listed. Custom grafting offered, also fact sheets and 8-page illustrated apple pruning guide ($1) available. Catalog $1.

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Finch Blueberry Nursery, PO Box 699, Bailey, NC 27807, 1-800-245-4662 http://danfinch.com/index.htm email: rabbiteye blueberries. Some unique varieties.

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Greenleaf Farm and Nursery, Toll-Free: (877) 331-2982 Fax: (877) 407-5550, 2349 Chinquapin Road, Tarboro, NC 27886
In 1997, 295 acres of additional land was purchased in Tarboro, N.C., located approximately 70 miles east of Raleigh. Envisioned as a diverse, "complete product line" miniaturized version of our Texas and Oklahoma operations, the North Carolina division quickly became a major supplier to Greenleaf's eastern customers. Presently, the Tarboro nursery produces 1,300,000 units, 2,600,000 cuttings, and 1,110,000 liners annually, and during the peak of the season, we employ 140 people at our Tarboro nursery.

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Hoffman Nursery, 5520 Bahama Rd., Rougemont, NC 27572, 1-877-804-0444, Fax: 919-471-3100-- specializes in ornamental grasses and aquatic plants. Probably best collection of orn. grasses in NC. Minimum order $50. http://www.hoffmannursery.com/

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Lewis Nursery: 6517 Gordon Road, Wilmington, NC 28411, Phone: 910-452-9659
Email: info@lewisfarms.com

Passiflora Wildflower Co., Rt. 1, Box 190-A, Germantown, NC 27019, 919-591-5816 (Cat. $1) -- wildflower seeds and plant, incl. custom seed mixes.

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Perry's Water Gardens, 191 Leatherwood Gap Rd., Franklin, NC 28734, 704-524-3264 (Cat. $2) -- incredible selection of aquatic plants. They welcome visitors, esp. near July 4th when greatest variety of waterlilies, lotus, etc. are blooming. Also sell goldfish.

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Formerly:
 Sandy Mush Herb Nursery, Rt. 2, 316 Surrett Cove Rd., Leicester, NC 28748-5517, 828-683-2014, Fax 828-683-2014(Cat. $4) -- incredible listing of herbs, perennials, etc. Somewhat pricey.

Tarheel Native Trees, 2234 Peele Road, Clayton, NC 27501, 919-553-5927. -- extensive collection of NC native woody trees and shrubs, offering rooted cuttings and larger containers of named cultivars, esp. Ilex veticillata, and magnolia cvs. jill.allen@worldnet.att.net

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Useful Plants Nursery: "Liberation through Abundance"
*Plants for Permaculture
*Phytonutritional Plants for Edible Landscaping
*Fruits, Nuts, Berries, Medicinal Herbs
*Permaculture Design and Consulting
Chuck Marsh, 1041 Camp Elliot Rd., Black Mtn. NC, 28711   (828) 669-1759

Wildflower Nursery, 1680 Hwy. 25/70, Marshall NC 28753, 704-656-2681 -- native wildflowers and shrubs. Woodlanders, 1128 Colleton Ave., Aiken, SC 29801, (Cat. $0.65) -- excellent selection of difficult-to-find trees and shrubs, esp. SE natives. Great people!

North Dakota (please suggest sources for this region)

Ohio

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Empire Chestnut Company, Ph: (330) 627-3181, gregnut@aol.com 3276 Empire Road SW, Carrollton, OH 44615
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We are a second generation family business. Our chestnut business was derived from my father's tree farming hobby on our 180 acre farm in east central Ohio. Between 1958 and 1970, many kinds of forest trees, fruit trees, and nut trees (including Chinese chestnuts), were planted. By 1970, it was obvious that the Chinese chestnuts were the best adapted and most promising crop producers of all the trees that were planted. So, in 1972 we planted over 600 seedlings from our best chestnut mother trees. As a result of this and subsequent larger plantings, we have one of the few chestnut orchards in the USA which can be considered to be of commercial size. Based on the success of these plantings, chestnuts have become my full-time occupation since 1984.

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Hirt's Gardens
Hirt's Gardens is one of Ohio's oldest horticultural establishments. We specialize in hard-to-find perennials, unusual and exotic house plants, and seeds and bulbs from around the world!
1-866-748-9984; Monday thru Friday, 9am to 5pm.
4943 Ridge Road ? Medina (Granger Township), Ohio 44281-9760
http://www.hirts.com/

Land Reformers Useful Plants Nursery, 35715 Nicholson Hill Rd.,Rutland, OH 45775
Perennials, Prairie Wildflowers, Seeds, Herbs, Land Use Planning Sustainable Landscaping Services
Hank Huggins 740-742-DIRT(3478)

MAD RIVER GARLIC GROWERS, P.O. BOX YELLOW SPRINGS, OHIO 45387 9374166127 cs@madrivergarlicgrowers.com

Mellinger’s, Inc., 2310 West South Range Road, North Lima, OH   44452. (216) 549-9861.  Good selection of tools, pots, trees, plants, seeds, fertilizers and grafting supplies.

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Spring Hill Nurseries, P.O. Box 330, Harrison, OH 45030-0330
Phone Orders 513-354-1509     Customer Service 513-354-1510

Oklahoma (please suggest sources for this region)

Oregon

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Fall Creek Farm & Nursery, Inc. - Oregon wholesale blueberry nursery selling highbush, rabbiteye and half-high blueberries as well as other decorative and fruit-bearing vacciniums.

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Fern Hill Nursery - Edible and Useful Plants Healthy for People and our Planet. Permaculture Plants for the Pacific Northwest. Grown with love and without chemicals or petroleum products., info@fernhillnursery.com 78703 Echo Hollow Lane Cottage Grove, OR 97424 (541) 942-3118

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Forestfarm, Ray and Peg Prag, 990 Tetherow Road, Williams, OR 97544-9599, (Cat. $ 3) Fax: 541-846-6963; Phone: 541-846-7269, probably the most extensive listing of useful plants in USA. They grow 2-3,000 different plants, mostly in plant "tubes" and 1 gal. containers (note different shipping dates), with short but amusing plant descriptions. Check them out!

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Lon J. Rombough, PO Box 365, Aurora, OR 97002-0365  Phone (503) 678-1410  Cuttings of a large selection of table grapes and wine grapes. Blog at http://lonrombough.livejournal.com/
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Want to learn more about growing grapes? In addition to buying The Grape Grower, you can now go to http://www.grapeschool.com and sign up for audio CD's, special download presentations, newsletters, and more, with many other items in development. lonrom@bunchgrapes.com

Nick Botner, 4015 Eagle Valley Road, Yoncalla, OR   97499.  (503) 849-2781.  Sells trees and will sell or trade scions from his huge collection of apples, pears, plums, and grapes.

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One Green World, 28696 S. Cramer Rd., Molalla, OR 97038-8576. Toll Free: 1-877-353-4028 Local: 503-651-3005
www.onegreenworld.com. Catalog free. Jim Gilbert started this nursery specifically aimed at importing fruiting plants from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. The catalog contains color photos, recipes, and cultural information. We're proud to announce that we are the first Oregon nursery to receive Salmon Safe Certification.

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2820 NW Scenic Dr, Albany, OR 97321  https://scenichillfarmnursery.com/  Larry's Cell- 541-990-6099
info@scenichillfarm.com

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Stargazer Perennials: 69611 Summerville Rd Summerville OR 97876, 800-394-2250.

Tradewinds Bamboo Nursery, 28446 Hunter Creek Loop, Gold Beach, OR 97444 Tel & FAX: 541/247-0835 Web Site: http://www.bamboodirect.com -- hardy and sub-tropical/tropical bamboos, esp.

TRECO, Oregon Rootstock & Tree Co., Inc., 10906 Monitor-McKee Road NE, Woodburn, OR   97071.  (503) 634-2209.  Extensive line of dwarfing rootstocks.  Minimum order 100.

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Whitman Farms, Lucile Whitman, 3995 Gibson NW, Salem, OR   97304. (503) 585-8728.  Many gooseberry and currant varieties, plus other fruits. Whitman Farms began in 1980 as an informal nut tree and small fruit adjunct to a large bareroot nursery next door in Salem Oregon. It was a one-woman show and mostly for fun. However, Lucile Whitman, the owner, got sidetracked; she became enamoured of unusual ornamental trees and started planting any weird and wonderful woody plants she ran across.

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Willamette Nurseries, Inc.
25571 S. Barlow Rd, Canby, OR 97013 (800)852-2018

Pennsylvania

Adams County Nursery, Inc., PO Box 108, Nursery Road, Aspers, PA 17304.   (717) 677-8105.  Old nursery with good reputation.  All of the popular tree fruits, including a large number of peach varieties,bare root nursery stock, fruit trees, semi-dwarf apples, plums, Asian pears, cherries and nectarines.

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The Banana Tree, Inc. 715 Northampton St. Easton, PA 18042 (Cat. $0.50) -- Offering thousands of tropical Seeds & Bulbs. Shipping worldwide. Phone: (610) 253-9589 Fax: (610) 253-4864.

White Oak Nursery 494 White Oak Rd., Strasburg, PA 17579-9733) Amos Fisher and Amos L. Beiler, Co-owners This Pennsylvania firm under new ownership sells more than 60 apple varieties, both old-fashioned and high-quality newer ones. Good-keeping winter apples are featured. Also available: 20 peaches, plus a handful of other varieties of stone fruits, plus pears and other nursery stock. Catalog free.

Rhode Island (please suggest sources for this region)

South Carolina

Charleston Aquatic Nurseries. 3095 Canal Bridge Road, Johns Island, SC 29455, 803-559-3151. Extensive offering of potted and bareroot aquatic plants and pond accessories. Min. order $100.

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Fast-Growing Trees.com: https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/?msclkid=a2c1a86bc5411dbf10fff544a7b4c3b6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)%20(FGT)%20Search%20-%20BR%20-%20Branded&utm_term=fastgrowingtrees.com&utm_content=Fast-Growing-Trees.com , Location: 2621 Old Nation Rd Fort Mill, SC 29715, 1-(800) 973-8959

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Jackson & Perkins, 2 Floral Ave., Hodges, SC 29653
Jackson & Perkins was founded in 1872, when Charles Perkins, with the financial backing of his father-in-law, A.E. Jackson, started up a modest enterprise wholesaling strawberries and grape plants from a farm in Newark, N.Y.

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McKenzie Farms, 2115 Olanta Hwy, Scranton, SC 29591 (843) 389-4831 specializes in cold hardy citrus, eucalyptus and some palms.

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Park Seed Co., 3507 Cokesbury Road, Hodges, SC 29653, info@parkseed.com, 1-800-845-3369, https://parkseed.com/nikitas-gift-persimmon-tree/p/39772/?gclid=CjwKCAjwq_vWBRACEiwAEReprEsb848XsnAp2p2A_cr1FGzrXGBVUZRZVl6R2XCBJVV0K4PpxU4hiRoCbjUQAvD_BwE&utm_source

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Wayside Gardens: Location: Wayside Gardens, One Garden Lane, Hodges, SC 29653, Toll Free: 1-800-845-1124, Toll Free: 1-800-845-1124,  https://www.waysidegardens.com/ , has orchard trees and shrubs

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Woodlanders, Inc., 1128 Colleton Avenue, Aiken, SC   29801.  (803) 648-7522.  A wide variety of hard-to-find southern plants.

South Dakota (please suggest sources for this region)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 16, 2019, 06:46:36 PM
(List of North American permaculture rootstock sources, cont'd:)

Tennessee

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Beaver Creek Nursery. 7526 Pelleaux Rd., Knoxville, TN 37938, 865-922-3961 ,
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Beaver Creek Nursery is a full landscape design and installation company. We are the areas only nursery to offer a three acre display garden that gives you the opportunity to see your landscape in a mature setting. Since we’re not your average nursery, you won’t find any Bradford Pears or Leyland Cypress here! We grow and specialize in unusual, rare and hard to find plants not readily available at other nurseries or most big box stores. We grow approximately 70% of all our stock so you can be assured your plant will be well suited for success in our area.

Beersheba Wildflower Gardens. PO Box 551, Beersheba Springs, TN 37305, 615-692-3575-- native ferns and wildflowers.

Bill's Berry Farm, 1338 Mt Zion Rd
McEwen, TN 37101
931-582-3006, berry plants for home and commercial plantings.

Cumberland Valley Nurseries. P.O. Box 471, McMinnville, TN 37111-0471, tel. 800-492-0022 or 931-668-4153, fax 931-668-7251 This Tennessee nursery specializes in peaches--over 90 varieties, mostly heritage types, are available. Additional stock includes plums, nectarines, pears, cherries, and apples (including several antiques). No orders to AZ, CA, OR, WA, or Canada. Established 1902. Price list free.

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Earth Advocates Research Farm - Sue and Adam Turtle. 30 Myers Rd., Summertown, TN 38483 - extensive bamboo collection, 200+ cvs. No mail order - pickup only. 931 964-4151 931-964-4228 fax/phone (7am-6pm CST)  researching candidate plant
species, evaluating plant assemblages and exploring cultural techniques and
strategies all toward developing sustainable ways (ie. low input) of stewarding our home planet.

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Greenwood Nursery: 636 Myers Cove Road, McMinnville, TN 37110 • Phone: 1-800-426-0958 or Contact us at: info@greenwoodnursery.com

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GroWild, Inc., 7190 Hill Hughes Rd Fairview, TN 37062
Terri Barnes & Mike Berkley
615-799-1910
615-799-1912 fax
www.GroWildInc.com

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Hidden Springs Nursery, 170 Hidden Springs Lane, Cookeville, TN 38501. 931-268-2592 - (Cat. $1.00) Unusual fruits etc.. Annie Black & Diana Lalani

Long Hungry Organic Farm & Creek Nursery, Box 163, Red Boiling Springs, TN 37150, 615-699-2784 This wholesale organic vegetable and cattle farm with local sales also offers several dozen antique and modern apple trees by mail-order. Jeff Poppen and Debby Beaver's nursery stock includes disease-resistant cultivars and old southern apples chosen to do well in Tennessee and Kentucky and similar areas. Brochure/price list free

Morton Old-Fashioned Apples, Rt. 1, Box 203, Gatlinburg, TN 37738 (no mail order, pick-up only) -- 121 fruits, 25 berries, etc. in 1988.

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Native Gardens, Rt. 1, Box 464, 5737 Fisher Lane, Greenback, TN 37742, 615-856-3350 (Cat $1) http://www.native-gardens.com/ - nursery propagated native perennials, trees & shrubs.

Natural Gardens, 4804 Shell Lane, Knoxville, TN 37918, 615-482-6746 (Cat. $1) -- seeds and nursery-propagated plants of wildflowers, spec. in butterfly and bird attracting spp.

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Rock Bridge Tree Farm: 199 Dry Fork Creek Rd, Bethpage, TN 37022, rockbridgetrees@gmail.com
615-841-3664, https://rockbridgetrees.com/

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Sunlight Gardens, Rt. 1, Box 600-A, 174 Golden Lane, Andersonville, TN 37705, 615-494-8237 -- SE wildflowers and ferns, perennials.
Phone 800-272-7396 or 423-494-8237

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Tennessee Wholesale Nursery (formerly Garden Delights), also sells retail to the public

Vernon Barnes & Son Nursery. PO Box 250-L, McMinnville, TN 37110, 615-668-8576. -- over 250 var. fruit/nut/shrubs/perennials.

Texas

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Bob Wells Nursery: 17160 CR 4100, Lindale, TX 75771, 903-882-3550 (Phone) 903-882-8030 (Fax),
http://bobwellsnursery.com/  Has some unusual varieties of cherry trees

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Texas Pecan Nursery - Supplier of nut, fruit and shade trees with wholesale plant availability. A family-owned and operated business located in Chandler, TX. It was started by Sam A. Pollard, Sr. and wife Junnie Pollard. It is still operated by second and third generations of the family. Texas Pecan has been in production since 1925 on 400 acres and offers a variety of nut, fruit and shade trees of the highest quality. Texas Pecan specializes in pecan trees – containers, bareroot and packaged.

Utah (please suggest sources for this region)

Vermont (please suggest sources for this region)

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Elmore Roots Nursery: http://www.elmoreroots.com/ Location: 631 Symonds Mill Road
Wolcott, VT 05680, 1-802-888-3305  Fax: 1-802-888-8885  Phone: 1-800-42-PLANT! Email:
fruitpal(AT)elmoreroots.com

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Perennial Pleasures Nursery https://perennialpleasures.net PO Box 128 63 Brickhouse Road East  Hardwick, Vermont 05836 annex@perennialpleasures.net (802) 472-5104

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Perfect Circle Farm and Nursery
A Vermont small family owned operation growing mostly edible and other plants of interest for permaculture. Extensive selection of sea berry, bush cherry, haskap/honeyberry/lonicera and much more. We ship plants year 'round. Contact Buzz Ferver 802-229-5436.
87 Kimball Road, Worcester, Vermont 05682

Vermont Edible Landscapes. Trees, shrubs perennial vegetables and pollinator plants. 1149 East Main Street. Richmond, VT 05443.

Virginia

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Edible Landscaping Nursery. Wide selection of fruits, nuts, kiwi. 361 Spirit Ridge Ln, Afton VA 22920 questions 434.361.9134 orders 800.524.4156 fax 434.361.1916

Kalmia Farms, PO Box 3881, Charlottesville, VA 22903 -- specializes in multiplier onions, shallots, topset onions, and garlic.

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Monticello, Thomas Jefferson's original home, is now a working permaculture farm with a store that sells unusual permaculture plants which Jefferson himself selected and improved from among the many native species brought back from the Lewis and Clark expedition.
https://www.monticelloshop.org/garden/plants/  Email: catalog@monticello.org Phone: Order line: 800.243.1743 (24 hours a day) Customer service: 800.243.0743 (M-F, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern Standard Time) Mailing Address: Monticello Shop P.O. Box 318 Charlottesville, VA 22902

Orchard Lane Growers. 5014 Orchard Lane, Gloucester, VA 23061, tel. 804-694-0470 after 6 p.m. From his Virginia nursery, Rollin Wooley sells a wide selection of interesting heritage apple varieties, including old southern favorites and others originating in North American, Europe, and elsewhere. Variety/price list includes some additional plants, among them pears, peaches, and jujubes.

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Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, (Cat. $3) P.O. Box 460 Mineral, VA 23117 Phone (540) 984-9480, Fax (540) 984-9481- mostly o.p. seeds but incl. multiplier onions, 5 fruits, 1 mulberry in 1988; great folks! gardens@southernexposure.com

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The Urban Homestead, 818 Cumberland St., Bristol, VA 24201, tel. 540-466-2931 Tim and Donna Hensley's Virginia nursery sells antique and modern apple trees. An informative catalog lists their stock of nearly 80 varieties, including numerous old southern varieties, plus apples from northern states, England, and elsewhere. Custom grafting offered. Catalog free. http://www.oldvaapples.com/

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Vintage Virginia Apples, PO Box 210, North Garden, Virginia 22959 (434)295-5382  Gift boxes of classic apples, rootstocks, young trees and scionwood, workshops.
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Rural Ridge is a family-run orchard dedicated to exploring the varieties of apple that can thrive in Albemarle County,Virginia. Thomas Jefferson experimented with 18 or more varieties of apples at Monticello, only a few miles from our orchard. Rural Ridge grows several of the varieties he chose, as well as hundreds of other old-fashioned varieties that offer delightful alternatives to the limited varieties currently available in grocery stores.


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Waynesboro Nurseries, PO Box 987, Waynesboro, VA 22980
Phone (540)946-3800 Toll Free (800)868-8676 Fax (540)946-3814
Fruit trees, nuts, grapes, perennial vegetables, informative wholesale catalog.   

Washington

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RemBrandt Masterpiece Fruit - Washington-state nursery selling cherry, apple, and pear trees, primarily to orchardists. 561 Ragan Road, Wapato, WA 98951   509.877.3193
509.248.7390

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Burnt Ridge Nursery, 432 Burnt Ridge Road, Onalaska, WA 98570 Nut and fruit trees. burntridge@myhome.net
(360) 985-2873 fax: 360-985-0882

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C&O Nursery Fruit Trees - Selling apple, cherry, peach, pear and plum trees, primarily to professional orchardists. PO Box 116, Wenatchee, WA   98807.  (800) 232-2636. Many varieties of fine fruit trees.  A commercial nursery, but accepts retail customers.

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Cloud Mountain Farm, a nonprofit community farm center dedicated to providing hands-on learning experiences to aspiring farmers, experienced farmers, and home gardeners. We have more than 35 years' experience, and by working together with people like you, we can keep our local food system healthy and thriving.
6906 Goodwin Road, Everson, WA 98247.  (360) 966-5859  Large selection of many fruits especially for North West gardens.

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Fruitful Farm: Along with flowers and ornamental nursery stock, we carry raspberry & blueberry plants, herbs, & vegetable starts every spring.
We also grow and sell organically grown vegetables raised on our farm. We are active in educating our community about the harmful effects of gmo seeds and plants to our health and ecology in general.
Arlington, WA (360) 631-3494
Visit us on Facebook

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Raintree Nursery, 391 Butts Road Morton, WA 98356
Over 600 varieties of FRUIT TREES, BERRIES, UNUSUAL EDIBLES, ORNAMENTALS & SUPPLIES for the American Gardener! 32 years serving home fruit growers.  http://www.raintreenursery.com/          info@raintreenursery.com

Restoring Eden: https://restoringeden.co/fruit-trees/ 3501 s. 228th Seatac, WA 98198, Phone: 253 202 5587
Email: info@restoringeden.co

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/VanWell.gif)
Van Well Nursery - A Washington-state based nursery offering apples, pears, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries and plums

Washington State University, Research and Extension Unit, 1468 Memorial Highway, Mount Vernon, WA   98273.  (206) 424-6121.  Scionwood from a large collection of apples, pears, cherries, plums, and apricots.  Annual fall order form; orders must be placed by January 1 for delivery January-February; cuttings taken only once per year.

West Virginia (please suggest sources for this region)

Wisconsin

(https://www.getgarlic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Get-Garlic-Logo-3.png)
GetGarlic.com Give us a call At (608) 289-1887 9701 West County Rd. H Beloit WI  53511
Quote
We run an organic agricultural venture located in the fertile soil of South Central Wisconsin. We offer 20+ varieties of organically grown, gourmet garlic that is available for planting or eating.  Let our family provide you with garlic tended by hand, one clove at a time, on land that is free of any chemicals from seed to harvest to storage.

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/Jung.gif)
Jung Quality Seeds, Randolph, WI   53957.  (800) 247-5864.
Good list of fruits. Now celebrating 100 years in business.

(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-jxfw11tk84/images/stencil/original/maplevalleyorchards_logo_1545138128__69193.original.jpg)
Maple Valley Orchards - A Wisconsin grower of antique apple scion wood for grafting, bareroot and potted heirloom apple, pear and plum trees.  https://maplevalleyorchards.com/

(http://www.northwoodsnursery.com/static_collected/media/uploads/header-logo.png)
http://www.northwoodsnursery.com/
(715) 369-3959 · Address. 3682 S Limberlost Rd; Rhinelander, Wisconsin 54501

Wyoming (please suggest sources for this region)

(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/nurseries/localharvest330x58.gif)
The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. http://www.localharvest.org/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 17, 2019, 04:55:04 PM
The sheer volume of resources you've posted is an indicator of the ever-growing interest in permaculture, organics and things related.  Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2019, 11:04:08 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 18, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
Savvy gardeners have been nervously and diligently eyeing their crops for evidence of possible UV-C damage supposedly pouring into the lower atmosphere as a result of a declining magnetosphere. 

What I've noticed here this week was a bit of a surprise:

So far, none of our Northern-bred permaculture crops have had serious issues with the "new" radiation, but my one and only Southern bred crop (in 2 different cultivars) is showing signs of distress after many years of being among the most robust species on our homestead:  the muscadine grapes bred in Georgia, which overwinter easily in our hardiness zone 6, and typically over-summer just as easily, being the Southern crop that they are.

The speed with which the distress began showing up this week has been a concern.  I went out at the beginning of this week and contemplated removing a tree branch from over the extreme right side of the 25' trellis, thinking to get this done in the next several days.  At that time however, I first noticed leaves on the opposite sunny end of the trellis beginning to brown, something that has never happened to the muscadines before.  A mere 48 hours later, we began noticing entire branches of brown leaves, but only on the sunnier left end of the row.

So it occurred to me not to prune that overhanging branch after all, as leaves on the shaded end of the trellis are perfectly green. 

Am ruling out lack of moisture or disease: We've had more than adequate rainfall this summer, but not the deluge of 2018, so water should not be an issue.  The grapevines are also bred to be disease-free.

Realizing that it was not in our best interests to let this continue any longer, we pruned out the brown dead stuff this morning, and then fetched enough fiberglass screen cloth from the hardware store to drape over the entire 25' row, using clips to fasten it loosely to the trellis wire. 

Total cost was under $20 to protect a crop that is much more valuable, being one of the few harvests that we can count on in October.

A new strategy presents itself:
Some amount of sunlight will need to reach the grapevines in order to set and ripen grapes (which are more like large unclustered berries in this species which is "rotundiflora").  It may be that we'll need to shade the row for several weeks post-Solstice, and then remove or roll up the shade cloth by late August or early September in order to ensure cropping by October.

I can't snap a photo right now as a thunderstorm is approaching, but you get the idea.  :)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 18, 2019, 07:55:52 PM
Good observation and probably conclusion about the uv-c being the culprit, especially since those leaves in the more shaded part are green.

Is there a website you can visit which posts daily UV-C levels?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 19, 2019, 06:21:10 AM
Mrmbb333 does a daily UV reading with the help of scattered volunteers, but Barb's thread covers more locations.  It would be handy if we each had our own meter that gave separate readings for the different types of UV, as well as the combined total.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 22, 2019, 11:54:25 AM
Shade cloth over the muscadines:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48349607221_7280e5b99f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gEunKB)
This intervention seems to have successfully halted the demise of this faithful old crop...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48350667352_b7084ba9f2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gEzNTJ)
I had a stash of small binder clips on hand, and simply used them to hold two lengths of shade cloth together to cover the fullness of the vine.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 24, 2019, 05:48:43 AM
Unless prohibited by state law, no Northern garden would be complete without cultivars from the native Ribes genus, which includes both currants and gooseberries.  A few are even grown in the South.

Up 'til now, we had only planted one species of currant on our homestead, and that is the black currant, "Titania" cultivar.  Most cultivars of black currant have a strong muskiness that is both an acquired taste, and a preferred one in some northern cultures in which the jam is prized.  Titania is no exception to this.  The sour + musk flavor gives way to luscious sweetness if left on the branches until dead ripe, which means solid black and soft. 

The complex flavor of black currants denotes its constituency of phytochemicals and essential oils.  In particular the seeds of the berry are sought out for their unusually high level of gamma linolenic acid, an essential fatty acid present in twice the amount in black currants as in evening primrose oil.  It is highly anti-inflammatory, and can help with hair growth and skin clarity.  It also contains anthocyanins, the anti-oxidant present in deep bluish purple foods.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/life-science/nutrition-research/learning-center/plant-profiler/ribes-nigrum.html

https://www.drugs.com/npp/black-currant.html

But black currants - not the same thing as the Xantes raisin currant, went from being heirloom plants in every Victorian garden to becoming illegal in the States when they were at one time found to be a carrier of White Pine Blister Rust disease which decimated conifer biomes.  Much breeding has been done since then to improve currants and gooseberries, such that federal legislation banning Ribes has been discontinued, and many state prohibitions have also been relaxed, allowing Northerners once again to rediscover their native botanical and agricultural heritage.

Presently, currants and gooseberries can legally be shipped to all but these states:

Delaware
Maine
North Carolina
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
West Virginia
Massachusetts

Exceptions are made in certain of those locations by permit.  All of the above states plus Virginia more specifically prohibit the shipping of black currants.  Ohio and Michigan accept particular cultivars of black currant that are bred and certified to be fully disease-resistant.  Though White Pine Blister Rust is not hosted by other colors of currants or gooseberries, they all may be lumped in with the prohibition in those locations, with certain exceptions.  Areas not participating in the ban are careful to breed and sell appropriate cultivars, such that a long list now exists of available currant and gooseberry selections.

I spent about a week researching these until finally arriving at selections for our homestead, and strongly recommend that others who may want to try these species do so as well.  Though most nurseries will publish the advantages of each one, few will document a fuller picture, and that's where university agriculture departments in Northern tier states and in Canada can be very helpful, many of which having published results of their own in-house trials on-line, such as these:

https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/1995/3-17-1995/curr.html

http://uncommonfruit.cias.wisc.edu/gooseberry/

https://extension.umn.edu/fruit/growing-currants-and-gooseberries-home-garden#varieties-1221011

http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/PDF/goosetalk02112010fin2ooo.pdf

Also, here is a list of cultivars that have passed Royal Horticultural Society trials in the U.K., with several selections from Scotland, particularly for the black currants.  Bear in mind though that only some of these are available in the U.S. marketplace:
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=739

Here is a list that I've compiled on thornless and semi-thornless gooseberries (currants don't suffer from thorns, and neither do jostaberries, a gooseberry-currant interspecies cross) - I've also noted other documented details about them to assist with narrowing the selection:

Captivator:
mildew-resistant, blush pink, sweet, upright, late season, reddish purple, drops its fruit on the ground, low yields, leaf spot

Friend
red, bothered by currant worm and has low yields

Poorman
pinkish red, early to mid season, sweet, opinions range from high to low yields and possible leaf spot susceptibility

Welcome
Wine red, slightly tart, only "moderately" resistant to mildew

Semi-Thornless:

Tixia
mid to late season, red, sweet-tart for baking, possible shorter life span.

Sabine
Pink and green (spreading habit)

Jeanne
wine red, pest-free, sweet,  disease free

Jahn's Prairie
Pink-red, disease-free including leaf-spot though differences of opinion.
Heat tolerant, won't drop leaves.  Very few thorns, moderate to high yields

Hinnomaki Red from Finland, one of the most disease-free currants in trials

Here's a list of North American fruits in the Ribes genus that are resistant to White Pine Blister Rust, which is pretty much everything on the market nowdays (watch for the distinction between full and partial resistance though):

Gooseberries:
Achilles, Canada O-273, Captivator, Columbus, Downing, Glenton Green, Golda, Hinnomaen kiltaenen green (Hinnomaki yellow), Howards Lancer, Invicta, Jahns Prairie, Jeanne, Josselyn, Oregon, Pixwell, Poorman, Sabine, Whitesmith, Black Velvet,

Black currant: Blackcomb, Canada RIB0112, Consort (Prince Consort), Crusader, Coronet, Crandall, 'Doch Siberyachki (Daughter of Siberia), Kosmioleskaja, Lowes Auslese, Minaj smyriou, Pilot Alexander Mamkin, Polar, Risager , Tahsis, Titania, Willoughby

Red currant:  Rondom (also Wilder, which is so rare that it seldom receives mention)

Black currant-Gooseberry hybrids: Josta (a.k.a.Jostaberry); Orus 8 (suffers from ordinary leaf rust though)

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdard/White_Pine_Blister_Rust_Resistant_Currant_and_Gooseberry_Varieties_489802_7.pdf

Based upon careful consideration of the above research, I made these final disease-resistant selections for our own homestead, beyond the medicinal Titania cultivar that we already had:

Currants:

Black - "Crandall Clove": sweet 1800's heirloom w/o musk, a.k.a. "yellow" due to blossom color
(https://www.isons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Black-Currants-Hi-Res-768x512.jpg)

Red - "Wilder": an heirloom tart processing cultivar from Indiana dating to the 1800's
(https://smhttp-ssl-17653.nexcesscdn.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/v/fv340.jpg)

Pink - "Champagne": sweet, agricultural production dates to the early 1700's in New York State
(https://www.slowfoodusa.org/resimg.php/imgcrop/1/3972/image/300/200/Pink+Champagne.jpg)

Gooseberries:

Dark Red-Purple - "Black Velvet", a heavy yielder worth putting up with thorns for
(https://www.burpee.com/dw/image/v2/ABAQ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Burpee/default/dw5fcb982a/Images/Product%20Images/prod500440/prod500440.jpg?sw=322&sh=380&sm=fit)

Red - "Amish Red": tart, one of the only fully disease-resistant red cultivars that I could find
(https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-2drwt2az/products/13789/images/45755/gooseberryamish1__02069.1493250322.500.659.jpg?c=2)

Burgundy - "Jeanne": sweet, semi-thornless and said not to be bothered by insects
(https://www.burpee.com/dw/image/v2/ABAQ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Burpee/default/dw7e877da5/Images/Product%20Images/prod500439/prod500439.jpg?sw=322&sh=380&sm=fit)

Red - "Hinnomaki": from Finland, semi-thornless, extremely disease resistant, not bothered by insects
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn0.michiganbulb.com/images/350/66430.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 25, 2019, 07:14:47 PM
Wow, thanks for the gooseberry and currant tutorial!  Lots of excellent information there to guide the rest of us along on our berry paths....
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 26, 2019, 09:50:43 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 26, 2019, 11:19:54 AM
Having taken a 20 year break from growing full-sized thorny raspberries, enough breeding work has been accomplished in that time that I'm feeling ready to plunge back into the game.

Growing raspberries used to be not that much fun (except of course picking and eating them) due to the amount of space they hogged up (if let go in their natural shape), thorns, and all the bother with primocanes and floracanes.  That garden was always messy looking, and I so much enjoyed turning the whole space into a thornless blueberry patch back then.   

I feel that we've trialed the dwarf raspberries enough to know that they may best be grown by children, due to their diminutive stature and need to bend down to turn branches over to harvest the berries.  So around 2 dozen have been claimed by a struggling farmer with 6 of the most adorable children that you'd ever want to meet, and I'm happy that the rootstock will have a good home. 

Another thing that has changed my attitude toward raspberry cultivation is personally witnessing the efficiency of the cordon system on numerous Amish farms - so neat and tidy, in fact, that a row of the brambles fits right into their vegetable garden without being the least bit in the way.  All done with posts about every 8 feet connected by tight heavy-gauge wire at the tops on which the several canes of each individual bramble are bound together and tied upward to the wire, so that every few feet you have an entire full-size berry bush with plenty of room around each one to scrupulously keep the ground open and air circulating (the Amish women, being of Germanic descent, don't tolerate anything out of place on their farms!)  :).

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_Nzy91WRToMI%2FTBuHWMKvTKI%2FAAAAAAAADjg%2FfaJZ7V8yzwM%2Fs320%2FBlackberry%2C%2BPrime%2BJim%2Bfloricane%2B6-18-10.JPG&f=1)

This may be the best method for growing brambles in copperhead and rattlesnake country as well, an important consideration where we live, as low-growing shrubs can create hiding spaces.  Fortunately the homestead with all the children is not located in the woods, but rather out in a wide-open space.

Another factor in favor of returning to the cultivation of full-sized brambles is that the breeding work has left growers with almost half a dozen cultivars which are strictly primocanes, which fruit the same year in which they grow, not only once, but twice.  Other names for them are Autumn and Everbearing raspberries.  The old cultivars fruited in the current year on last year's growth, and then the finished canes would die, leaving growers with the need to cut out some canes and leave others until next year. 

The new "Primocane Raspberries" are as follows:

Autumn Britten (a.k.a. Autumn Bliss)
Caroline
Heritage
Joan J
Polka

Of those, Joan J is completely thornless and one of the heaviest producers in a University trial:

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1670&context=extension_curall

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48381627447_7834bda4c2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gHjuft)Screenshot (5648) (https://flic.kr/p/2gHjuft)

Joan J's fruit was in the top three for size as well:

Table 1. Average fruit size (g/fruit)

                     Mean

Anne              2.94             
Ruby              2.73             
Joan J            2.71
Caroline         2.67         
Polka             2.62             
Himbo Top      2.55
Jaclyn            2.41             
Polana            2.24           
Heritage         2.12       
Summit          1.51   
       
Nurseries strongly recommend that raspberries not be grown within 100 feet of a black raspberry plant due to transferability of disease.  However, that rule seems mainly to apply to any wild ones that may be lurking on the property, rather than to bred and certified plants:
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/can-red-raspberries-black-raspberries-grow-next-other-41711.html

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.starkbros.com%2Fimages%2Fdynamic%2F227-360x270-fillv.jpg&f=1)
Full-size thornless Primocane Raspberry plant

More soon...

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 26, 2019, 07:37:50 PM
Just adding an addendum that I've discovered one cultivar of black raspberry, as well, that falls within the "everbearing" or "autumn bearing" category, meaning a potential for two crops per year depending upon what time of the year the grower chooses to prune:

"Ohio Treasure" is the name of the cultivar.
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftownsendfarms.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Ffrozen-black-raspberries.png&f=1)
Black raspberries are a nutritional superfood.  Though they look appealing when they're red, one should resist the temptation to sample them until they're dead ripe, meaning purplish black with a bit of a haze on them the way a ripe blueberry has a "frosty" look to it.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 27, 2019, 03:32:17 PM
About five years ago I planted 8 raspberry plants purchased from a farmer, but each one died within two years, so the question remained--is it our soil that's wrong, or perhaps the wrong type berry plant for this area?

In the past year or two I've been planning to try growing raspberries again, possibly evey digging some of the delicious wild raspberry plants that grow amidst the wild blackberries.  Now you have convinced me it's an excellent time. 

Thanks for all the berry information which is good for anyone wanting to start in these berry plants.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 28, 2019, 06:00:16 AM
Ilinda, I'm assuming that they had both primocanes and floracanes?  Could it be that they just needed a hard pruning?

As far as cultivating wild berries, I do that here with wineberries by encouraging them to congregate in a few different areas.  I just weed everything else out in those areas, and the wineberries keep starting new baby plants amidst the mature ones.  All wild brambles supposedly can harbor diseases though, that can affect cultivated ones, so there's the "100-foot rule" of distance between garden and whatever was transplanted from brush.

Some crosses of blackberry and raspberry have been created that are more common in the South (and warm climates in other countries) and possibly more durable: "Marionberries", "Boysenberries" and "Sylvanberries."

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/blackberries/silvanberry-information.htm

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/blackberries/what-are-marionberries.htm

Marionberry pedigree from Wiki:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48394956946_0d298f000b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJuNDq)

This article says that purple raspberries grow best in the south:
https://www.scribd.com/document/107187036/growing-raspberries

Berry collections recommended for the South, which your grow zone would be considered to be the northern edge of:

https://www.starkbros.com/products/berry-plants/blackberry-plants/southern-blackberry-plant-collection

https://www.willisorchards.com/product/southern-bababerry-raspberry-plant

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/gardening-by-zone/zone-9-10-11/zone-9-raspberries.htm

https://www.willisorchards.com/category/raspberry-plants

Best of luck!  :)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on July 28, 2019, 08:00:09 PM
If anyone wants to know anything about berries, YOU are the one!  Being fairly ignorant of them, except that they taste good and are healthful, I should study some of your posts before doing anything more!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on July 29, 2019, 05:12:05 AM
Am still learning myself Ilinda! :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 15, 2019, 11:01:14 AM
An old-fashioned English garden crop is Good King Henry, a.k.a. Lincolnshire Spinach, Latin name Chenepodium bonus-henricus. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prepperfortress.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2Fdownload-21.jpg&f=1)

There are several positives about this plant:

*Food value: It provides several possibilities all at once - leafy greens, asparagus-like stalks, and seed tops that are essentially perennial quinoa. 

*Growth habit: It is a perennial crop which comes back every year, gradually establishing nice little rows or clumps of fairly uniform-sized plants around 18" in height.

*Preferences: It actually enjoys partial shade, unlike many crops which require full sun.

Negatives:

*Quinoa-like seed heads require some hand-processing to be usable, such as stripping seeds from stalks (simple), winnowing to remove chaff, and soaking to remove saponins (soap-like phytochemicals common to many edible and medicinal plants).

*Like annual spinach, it contains oxalates, especially in the leaves, which people prone to gout, stones and arthritis might want to avoid. 

*Started rootstock is somewhat rare now and generally must be mail-ordered from such sources as Richter's and Artemisia's Forest Garden Nursery in Canada, or Food Forest Farm, Perennial Pleasures, and Oikos Tree Crops in the States.  Richter's will also ship to the States in small or large quantities.  Numerous locations offer seeds, but they can be challenging to germinate.

Here's a grower in Denmark demonstrating how the seed heads are harvested and processed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI1fuqzNg2s

PFAF link here:
https://pfaf.org/user/plant.aspx?latinname=Chenopodium+bonus-henricus

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 15, 2019, 05:45:34 PM
This looks so interesting that I'm going to find a source tonight!  There are few plants that offer so much:  fresh greens, high-quality edible seed, and it's perennial.  Almost too much to ask for in one plant.  Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 24, 2019, 10:20:40 AM
(Editor's note:  Who would have thought microscopic soil roundworms might save the day.....!?!)

https://btiscience.org/explore-bti/news/post/worm-pheromones-protect-major-crops/?utm_source=Acres+U.S.A.+Community&utm_campaign=87718fcc55-Soil+News+8-2-19+Soil+Fertility+16+Methods&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65283346c2-87718fcc55-184796477&goal=0_65283346c2-87718fcc55-184796477&mc_cid=87718fcc55&mc_eid=3011577f1a

Worm Pheromones Protect Major Crops

by Aaron J. Bouchie | Jul 23, 201

The cover of the May 2019 issue of Journal of Phytopathology shows that soybean plants treated with ascr#18 (right) were healthier and had higher survival rates compared with untreated seeds (left) when infected with Phytophthora sojae. Photo credit: Aardra Kachroo, University of Kentucky
Protecting crops from pests and pathogens without using toxic pesticides has been a longtime goal of farmers. Researchers at Boyce Thompson Institute have found that compounds from an unlikely source – microscopic soil roundworms – could achieve this aim.
As described in research published in the May 2019 issue of Journal of Phytopathology, these compounds helped protect major crops from various pathogens, and thus have potential to save billions of dollars and increase agricultural sustainability around the world.
Led by BTI Senior Research Associate Murli Manohar, a team around Professors Daniel Klessig and Frank Schroeder investigated the effects of a roundworm metabolite called ascr#18 on plant health.
Ascr#18 is a member of the ascaroside family of pheromones, which are produced by many soil-dwelling species of roundworms for chemical communication.
The researchers treated soybean (Glycine max), rice (Oryza sativa), wheat (Triticum aestivum) and maize (Zea mays) plants with small amounts of ascr#18, and then infected the plants with a virus, bacteria, fungus or oocmycete.
When examined several days later, the ascr#18-treated plants were significantly more resistant to the pathogens compared with untreated plants.
“Plant roots are constantly exposed to roundworms in the soil, so it makes sense that plants have evolved to sense the pest and prime their immune systems in anticipation of being attacked,” says Schroeder.
Because they boost plants’ immune systems instead of killing pests and pathogens, ascarosides are not pesticides. As a result, they are likely to be much safer than many current means of pest and pathogen control.
“Ascarosides are natural compounds that appear to be safe to plants, animals, humans and the environment,” says Klessig. “I believe they could thus provide plants more environmentally friendly protection against pests and pathogens.”
In previous work, Klessig and Schroeder demonstrated that ascr#18 and other ascarosides increased resistance against pest and pathogens in tomato, potato, barley and Arabidopsis.
“By expanding the work to major crops, and concentrating on their most significant pathogens, this study establishes the potential for ascarosides to enhance agriculture production worldwide,” says Klessig.
Indeed, rice is the world’s most important staple food for nearly half of the global population. Ascr#18 provided protection against Xanthomonas oryzae pv. oryzae, a bacterium that causes yield losses of 10-50% in Asian countries.
Wheat is close behind rice in importance as a food staple, and ascr#18 protected it against Zymoseptoria tritici, a fungus that is one of the most severe foliar diseases of the crop.
Maize is the most widely grown grain crop throughout the Americas with great importance for food, biofuel and animal feed. Ascr#18 provided protection against Cochliobolus heterostrophus, a fungal pathogen that causes southern corn leaf blight.
Soybean is a major high-protein, oil-rich seed crop used as a food source for humans and animals. Ascr#18 protected soybeans against Phytophthora sojae, an oomycete that can kill infected plants in days, as well as the bacterial pathogen Pseudomonas syringae pv glycinea and Soybean Mosaic Virus.
Extremely small concentrations of ascarosides are sufficient to provide plants with resistance against pathogens. Interestingly, the optimal concentration appears to be dependent on the plant species and not the pathogen.
The researchers believe the reason that different plant species have different optimal dosages is likely related to the plant cell’s receptors for ascr#18. Different plant species may express different amounts of ascr#18 receptors, and receptors may have varying affinities for ascarosides. Such differences would affect the amount of ascr#18 needed to trigger the plant’s immune systems.
The group is now working to determine the molecular mechanisms of how ascarosides prime the plant’s immune systems.
These discoveries are being commercialized by a BTI and Cornell University-based startup company, Ascribe Bioscience, as a family of crop protection products named PhytalixTM.
“This work is a great example of how the Institute is leveraging our technology through new start-up ventures, an important strategic initiative at BTI,” says Paul Debbie, BTI’s Director of New Business Development. “The Institute is proud of the opportunity to develop innovative technology in partnership with a new company that is having a positive economic impact here in our local community and for New York State.”
In addition to their BTI positions, Klessig is an adjunct professor in Cornell’s Department of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology and Schroeder is a professor in Cornell’s Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology.
Collaborators included researchers at Cornell, University of Kentucky, Justus Liebig University in Germany, University of California, Davis, and Colorado State University.
The research was partially funded by the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) National Institute for Food and Agriculture, the USDA Agricultural Food and Research Initiative, the Colorado Agricultural Experiment Station, the Kentucky Soybean Promotion Board, and the German Minister of Education and Research.
See More News

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 24, 2019, 04:24:54 PM
I would never have guessed any of that - very interesting!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 30, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
To provide outside inputs or not to provide outside inputs into your permaculture system?

The debate rages on between die-hard closed-loop permaculturists and those who advocate allowing an opening in the loop for things that the homestead cannot provide on-site.

As Socrates has often reminded us, soil-building is key to a successful microfarm.  And professional permaculturists will often say "Get mulch down on the ground as soon as possible, around everything!"

Some, including myself, find great value in shredded wood or bark mulch. 

I especially find cedar mulch to be useful:

*It can be used near buildings without encouraging mold to climb the structure

*The aromatic oils repel some pests, including termites

Beyond the aromatics, all mulch has these additional benefits:

*Cooling plant roots

*Conserving moisture

*Breaking down slowly over time to provide nutrients and soil structure

*Insulating rootstock during winter

Most planting beds can benefit from mulch, with the possible exception of plots that will soon be dug, such as tubers.

But mulch can add a considerable cost to the bottom-line, and needs to be re-purchased regularly unless one owns a wood chipper or sawmill, or has massive amounts of grass clippings, etc.  It can make sense to wait until the end of the growing season to renew mulch.

Advantages to mulching at the end of the growing season, instead of the beginning, are:


*Buying when others are not

*Drastically reduced price from suppliers who are diligent about liquidating their supply annually so as to be able to offer fresh aromatic mulch at the beginning of each spring.

Big box stores offer cedar mulch for around $4 per roughly 2 cubic ft. bag, but I was able to source it locally from a small nursery for less than $2 per bag this week, which enabled a larger than normal purchase, enough to cover the new primocane raspberry patch, the gooseberry patch and renew strawberry beds.  It felt good to know that newer plots were off to the best start possible, and that neglected plots were refreshed.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgreelysand.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Fcedar-mulch-400x400.jpg&f=1)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on August 30, 2019, 04:12:25 PM
To provide outside inputs or not to provide outside inputs into your permaculture system?

The debate rages on between die-hard closed-loop permaculturists and those who advocate allowing an opening in the loop for things that the homestead cannot provide on-site.

As Socrates has often reminded us, soil-building is key to a successful microfarm.  And professional permaculturists will often say "Get mulch down on the ground as soon as possible, around everything!"

This chick is in the "outside inputs" because of Jared Diamond's book Collapse..., in which he talks of how areas which receive seaspray just from proximity to an ocean or sea receive regular mineral-rich inputs that inland areas never receive naturally.

He also mentioned that those areas which experienced fallout from volcanic ash at least every 100,000 years have richer soils than those who don't experience such fallout.

For those two reasons alone, it's easy for me to be persuaded to buy sea salt (if uncontaminated) and crushed volcanic rock, both of which are unavailable here in this inland area.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on August 30, 2019, 05:41:24 PM
Interesting that you should mention sea inputs Ilinda - I'm just beginning to experiment with a type of compost made from lobsters, of all things!  Not surprisingly, it comes from Maine:

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F-tM63KLDIWTU%2FT5hTdyi8MnI%2FAAAAAAAAAnU%2FnDOiy42Kpc4%2FLobster_thumb6.jpg%3Fimgmax%3D800&f=1)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on September 02, 2019, 05:01:29 PM
Sounds like a nutrient-dense compost, so we can hope it's sustainable, like maybe discarded shells from restaurant fare? 
Let us know how it works.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on September 02, 2019, 05:05:37 PM
Well, I had transplanted a young persimmon tree into it in the heat, against conventional wisdom, and it seems to be thriving. 

Here's what the package says about it:

Quote
Coast of Maine Organic Products Quoddy Blend Lobster Compost is made with chitin and calcium-rich lobster shells, compost and sphagnum peat moss. It is a dark-brown, complex soil filled with naturally occurring microorganisms all plants need for healthy growth.  It drains well and is an ideal soil conditioner for existing beds that need reinvigorating.

It is OMRI certified for use in organic gardens.

Available in 1cf bags.

Target pH 6.5
 

Am just hoping that with our shellfish allergies in this family, except for my hubby from Louisiana, that we won't find ourselves allergic to the persimmons from that tree!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 15, 2019, 11:18:26 AM
This year's parsnip harvest was very interesting.  Earlier this spring, I had complained about the constant rains we had last winter, and that most of the parsnips I had planted in December, 2018, did not germinate, leaving huge gaps in the bed.

RR, you had suggested that it was the constant rains in the winter that may have been the cause because there are those poor little seeds, trying to slowly germinate, and having to endure constant freezing and thawing, which normally occurs without being surrounded by waterlogged soils!

Well, this harvest tells me that a second disadvantage of planting parsnips in December for growth the following year is that those seeds that DO survive the waterlogged winter, will not grow into nice long roots.  Rather they produce large bulbous, almost round, but quite short, roots with many, many side shoots.  They are possibly the worst parsnips I've grown.  Those that survived waterlogged soils sent their roots outward, rather than downward.

So I'm taking your advice and not planting parsnip seeds until very early next year, perhaps February.  Early spring is the recommended time, but here that seems almost too late as they seem to finally germinate when it's getting hot.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 15, 2019, 01:02:41 PM
Well, all experiments in the garden are valuable, even when they don't pan out as hoped!

With all of your experience on the farm, maybe a book might come of it some day?  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on October 16, 2019, 10:05:27 AM
These may be the most durable and practical raised beds that I've ever seen:

(https://www.theprairiehomestead.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/garden-july2019-1-1024x683.jpg)

https://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2017/04/building-raised-beds.html
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on October 16, 2019, 05:36:42 PM
They probably are the most, or almost the most practical and here is one reason:  raccoons might not be able to climb them.

Not too far from here a farmstead has for the past couple of years something similar.  Visible from the road are a bunch of heavy-duty plastic looking "bins" which are about the size of those posted on the "theprairiehomestead" in previous post, except these bins have smooth sides, which would make it almost impossible for a raccoon to climb.  All a raccoon needs for climbing is a ledge or wire or something to grab.  A welded wire fence or poultry wire is nothing more than a raccoon ladder, as I have learned the hard way.  And they can climb with blinding speed!

Plus, rats and mice would probably not be able to climb the bins either.  They look like a real winner. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on November 29, 2019, 09:49:27 AM
Plants Are Cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6O_2FfzQI&feature=youtu.be&utm_source=Acres+U.S.A.+Community&utm_campaign=6168bf07f4-Soil+Newsletter+
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on November 30, 2019, 07:00:23 AM
How interesting, Ilinda, that photosynthesis produces cooling by that many degrees!  All the more reason for a living green roof, unless living in an A-frame like we do!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on November 30, 2019, 01:27:02 PM
That was a real shocker to see the temperature differences shown in the video!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on January 24, 2020, 05:38:41 AM
We've discussed on the "Eating with the Seasons" thread about how healthy artichokes are as a food choice, and how to prepare them.  While they're not often considered a Northern permaculture crop, they can indeed be treated as non-annuals, with a little care:

1. Site the patch in a part of the garden which will permit the plants to be a few feet apart, as they have a wide leaf-spread.  PFAF says soil pH doesn't matter to this species, but they need sunlight.

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Cynara+scolymus

2. Choose the "Imperial Star" variety, which bears chokes in the first season.  Or opt for sweet anthocyanin-rich Violetta, but expect it to die back several times a year after each fruiting, and then regrow.  Imperial Star isn't triggered to die back just because it produces chokes.  In Northern Europe, hardier choices include Scandinavian cultivars ‘Herrgård’ and ‘Serridslevgaard’

3. Expect to harvest 2 large chokes and half a dozen small ones from each plant before frost, beginning in the first year for Imperial Star, or the 2nd year for other varieties.

4. The plant should be cut back to several inches high before frost, and the roots dug up and brought indoors to the root cellar, greenhouse, etc.  and placed in soil.  The first link below suggests planting them in the ground in burlap bag root balls, like trees, and then pulling out the bags to root cellar before each winter, but natural burlap does rot in the ground.  The second link below says roots are fully winter hardy when not saturated with moisture, and can be cloched or grown in a cold frame or greenhouse without any heat in Scandinavia.  Any roots left in the ground over winter in the North here in North America may die due to winter moisture, or they might do well in situ if covered with mounded soil, leaves, etc.

5. Since artichokes have a truly perennial habit in warm climates (and when babied in the North as described), the roots will need to be divided every several years, which means you'll get free extra plants  :)

More: https://pondplantgirl.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-to-grow-artichokes-in-cold-climates.html

https://toads.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/overwintering-artichoke/

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fd2tfjcn1pw5sr4.cloudfront.net%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fsquare_480%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fvariety%2Fa-artichoke-imperial_star-seedcount.jpg%3Fitok%3DKbEDxPkG&f=1&nofb=1)

From PFAF:

Quote
The globe artichoke has become important as a medicinal herb in recent years following the discovery of cynarin. This bitter-tasting compound, which is found in the leaves, improves liver and gall bladder function, stimulates the secretion of digestive juices, especially bile, and lowers blood cholesterol levels[238, 254]. The leaves are anticholesterolemic, antirheumatic, cholagogue, digestive, diuretic, hypoglycaemic and lithontripic[7, 21, 165]. They are used internally in the treatment of chronic liver and gall bladder diseases, jaundice, hepatitis, arteriosclerosis and the early stages of late-onset diabetes[238, 254]. The leaves are best harvested just before the plant flowers, and can be used fresh or dried[238]. The German Commission E Monographs, a therapeutic guide to herbal medicine, approve Cynara scolymus (Cynara cardunculus subsp. flavescens)for liver and gallbladder complaints, loss of appetite (see [302] for critics of commission E).
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on January 31, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
Cummins Nursery in New York is one of the foremost breeders of stone-fruit trees in the U.S.  Here's their current list of available trees for shipping, and which size rootstock they're growing on.  Their inventory is usually quickly depleted each year:

https://shop.cumminsnursery.com/stock.aspx

All fruit trees from this company will likely need some cold (chilling hours) during the winter months, and may not be suitable in warm zones.

(https://shop.cumminsnursery.com/cn/images/banner2008.png)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on January 31, 2020, 06:43:46 PM
Thanks for that link.  Am always on the lookout for new sources of fruit trees.  If you know of a source of jujube trees, or even jujube seeds, that would be cool.  I had ordered some jujube seeds a couple of years ago through a seed swap type of organization and the person offering them never sent them, nor would she ever respond to my letters or emails about where my seeds are.

Have heard it's a good one to grow.  More variety on the homestead.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 01, 2020, 06:29:58 AM
That's an especially good choice since the fruit is anti-viral and can be dehydrated for long-term storage!

Here are some sources that will ship:

http://ediblelandscaping.com/products/trees/Jujubes/ in Virginia

https://www.groworganic.com/collections/jujube-trees in California

https://www.willisorchards.com/category/jujube-trees in Georgia

https://rollingrivernursery.com/products/50/fruit-trees/jujubes-ziziphus-jujuba in California

https://baylaurelnursery.com/jujubes.html in California

https://www.burntridgenursery.com/Jujube-Trees/products/21/ in Washington State

https://onegreenworld.com/product-category/fruiting-shrubs/jujube/ in Oregon

https://www.tytyga.com/Li-Jujube-p/frujuj-li.htm in Georgia (their stated zones are questionable)

https://justfruitsandexotics.com/?s=jujube in Florida

https://raintreenursery.com/fruit-trees/unusual-edibles-jujube in Washington

https://www.treesofantiquity.com/collections/jujube-trees in California

https://www.etsy.com/market/jujube_tree

http://www.nuttrees.net/jujube.html a.k.a. England's Nursery in Kentucky

https://www.burpee.com/fruit/specialty-fruits/jujube-shanxi-li-prod100086.html Headquartered in Pennsylvania

https://www.isons.com/shop/specialty-fruits/jujube/lang-jujube-tree-2/ in Georgia

https://bobwellsnursery.com/?s=jujube&post_type=product in Texas

https://www.lecooke.com/fruit-trees/jujube-trees.html in California

I've had good experiences with nearly all of those nurseries in the past.  Etsy might best be used as a seed source.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg-aws.ehowcdn.com%2F200x200%2Fcme%2Fcme_public_images%2Fwww_ehow_com%2Fphotos.demandstudios.com%2Fgetty%2Farticle%2F235%2F31%2F487442743_XS.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Jujube fruits resemble dates when dead ripe.  All cultivars are self-fruitful, meaning you only need one for good pollination and fruit-set, though some nurseries recommend planting two for a better crop.  In the North, they fruit best in planting zone 6 except for one that withstands zone 5, but all should do well in most Southern climates, especially arid ones.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 01, 2020, 06:37:28 AM
Comparison of Jujube cultivars.  Note that some of these have been bred in the U.S. for generations now, and are not likely recent imports from China:

https://garden.org/plants/group/jujubes/

Quote
'Li' is the one to plant if you have room for only one tree. Fruits are abundant, round, 1-1/2 to 2 inches in diameter, and sweet. It matures early, a great benefit in short-growing-season areas.

'Lang', compared with 'Li', is taller, and the fruit is a bit more elongated or pear-shaped, about 3/4 inch in diameter and 2 inches long, and has thicker skin. The fruit is a bit less sweet than that of 'Li' and best eaten dried. Branches are nearly thornless.

Other Varieties
'Sherwood' fruits are smaller than 'Li' and ripen later. They keep well in the refrigerator up to 6 weeks. Discovered in the southern Louisiana woods, the tree has an attractive, narrow, weeping shape.

'Silverhill' (also called 'Tiger Tooth') produces elongated fruits that are excellent for drying.

'So' produces high-quality, round fruit on a zigzag-shaped tree.

'Shui Men' (or 'Sui Men') is a highly regarded midseason variety. Its fruits taste good fresh or dried.

'GA 866' is noted for its remarkably high sugar content.

I believe that another name for "So" is "Contorted."

Other varieties not mentioned:

Norris , Shanxi LiBlack Sea , Chico a.k.a. GI7-62 , Winter Delight a.k.a. Mango Dong Zho , Honey Jar (zone 5?) , Sihong a.k.a Shi Hong , Massandra

Remember that larger cultivars can be trained to any height desired for smaller spaces, with regular pruning.

More disambiguation and comments about fertility:

https://growingfruit.org/t/identifying-li-shanxi-li-and-yu-jujubes/8300

https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_h/H330/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 01, 2020, 07:51:55 AM
Note from PFAF:

Quote
Jujube is both a delicious fruit and an effective herbal remedy. It aids weight gain, improves muscular strength and increases stamina[254]. In Chinese medicine it is prescribed as a tonic to strengthen liver function[254]. Japanese research has shown that jujube increases immune-system resistance. In one clinical trial in China 12 patients with liver complaints were given jujube, peanuts and brown sugar nightly. In four weeks their liver function had improved[254]. Antidote, diuretic, emollient, expectorant[11, 61, 174, 178, 194]. The dried fruits contain saponins, triterpenoids and alkaloids[279]. They are anodyne, anticancer, pectoral, refrigerant, sedative, stomachic, styptic and tonic[4, 176, 218]. They are considered to purify the blood and aid digestion[240]. They are used internally in the treatment of a range of conditions including chronic fatigue, loss of appetite, diarrhoea, pharyngitis, bronchitis, anaemia, irritability and hysteria[176, 238, 279]. The seed contains a number of medically active compounds including saponins, triterpenes, flavonoids and alkaloids[279]. It is hypnotic, narcotic, sedative, stomachic and tonic[147, 176, 218]. It is used internally in the treatment of palpitations, insomnia, nervous exhaustion, night sweats and excessive perspiration[176, 238]. The root is used in the treatment of dyspepsia[218]. A decoction of the root has been used in the treatment of fevers[4, 240]. The root is made into a powder and applied to old wounds and ulcers[240]. The leaves are astringent and febrifuge[4, 218]. They are said to promote the growth of hair[218]. They are used to form a plaster in the treatment of strangury[240]. The plant is a folk remedy for anaemia, hypertonia, nephritis and nervous diseases[218]. The plant is widely used in China as a treatment for burns[218].
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on February 01, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
Wow!  Some wonderfully helpful jujube information.  Worth printing onto hard copy.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 22, 2020, 02:40:39 PM
I've been studying the variety of barberry / berberis shrubs available lately, particularly for their heart-healthy and mitochondria-restoring PQQ content, which makes them somewhat unique in the plant world.  They should not be confused with bayberry.

The plants are naturalized in North America, and typically grow in zones 4-8.  They can harbor wheat rust, so we need to search for varieties certified against that disease.  The Japanese variety is also invasive. 

They typically have vivid-colored foliage in autumn, and either red or purple tart berries, which are the source of the phytochemical Berberine, where the PQQ is found. 

In the past, they have been planted primarily for their value as a natural hedge, due to sharp barbs, and to feed the birds in winter (deer avoid it).  More recently, dwarfing cultivars have been developed.  Need to check to see which ones also have berries, as some are fruitless.

The main mail-order nurseries that I've found these at have been:

Hirt's Gardens in Ohio

Greenwood Nursery in Tennessee

Kigi Nursery in Washington State

Brighter Blooms in South Carolina

One Green World in Oregon

New Life Nursery in South Carolina

Garden Crossings in Michigan

High Country Gardens in Utah

It may also be possible to obtain non-invasive and non-rust-harboring varieties of this genera free of charge from your local state forestry department, as it is widespread in forests. 

Numerous studies on the benefits of Berberine exist at the NIH / NCBI website. 

Also:

https://draxe.com/nutrition/barberry

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/04/15/pqq-berberine-mitochondrial-enhancers.aspx

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.habitatmatters.org%2Fuploads%2F9%2F5%2F0%2F6%2F95066352%2Fpublished%2Fjapanese-barberry-fall-fruit-2.jpg%3F1491244488&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 22, 2020, 03:13:51 PM
I had been hoping that crowns of the U.K. asparagus cultivar "Conover's Colossal" would eventually be offered in North America, and it finally has arrived here, courtesy of Oikos Tree Crops, one of my favorite subsistence rootstock sources for its unusual variety which is constantly being improved through a rigorous breeding program.

"Conover's" stands out from other asparagus cultivars due to its much thicker spears on plants which behave mostly as all-male, like other modern cultivars, except for occasional seed-setting.  Anyone preferring a variety with more seed-setting female plants for breeding work may appreciate the old heirloom Mary Washington, which is readily available in North America.

As a hedge against disease, I also keep Jersey Knight and Purple Passion in the garden.

The photo posted on Oikos' website seems not to be a correct match for the cultivar, which looks more like the photo, below, taken from the Web:

https://oikostreecrops.com/products/perennial-vegetable-plants/wild-asparagus-plants/connovers-collosal-asparagus/

(https://worcesterallotment.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/asparagusgrowing.jpg)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on February 23, 2020, 06:55:06 PM
I've been studying the variety of barberry / berberis shrubs available lately, particularly for their heart-healthy and mitochondria-restoring PQQ content, which makes them somewhat unique in the plant world.  They should not be confused with bayberry.

The plants are naturalized in North America, and typically grow in zones 4-8.  They can harbor wheat rust, so we need to search for varieties certified against that disease.  The Japanese variety is also invasive. 

They typically have vivid-colored foliage in autumn, and either red or purple tart berries, which are the source of the phytochemical Berberine, where the PQQ is found. 

In the past, they have been planted primarily for their value as a natural hedge, due to sharp barbs, and to feed the birds in winter (deer avoid it).  More recently, dwarfing cultivars have been developed.  Need to check to see which ones also have berries, as some are fruitless.

The main mail-order nurseries that I've found these at have been:

Hirt's Gardens in Ohio

Greenwood Nursery in Tennessee

Kigi Nursery in Washington State

Brighter Blooms in South Carolina

One Green World in Oregon

New Life Nursery in South Carolina

Garden Crossings in Michigan

High Country Gardens in Utah

It may also be possible to obtain non-invasive and non-rust-harboring varieties of this genera free of charge from your local state forestry department, as it is widespread in forests. 

Numerous studies on the benefits of Berberine exist at the NIH / NCBI website. 

Also:

https://draxe.com/nutrition/barberry

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/04/15/pqq-berberine-mitochondrial-enhancers.aspx

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.habitatmatters.org%2Fuploads%2F9%2F5%2F0%2F6%2F95066352%2Fpublished%2Fjapanese-barberry-fall-fruit-2.jpg%3F1491244488&f=1&nofb=1)
The plant in the pic looks seriously familiar!  I wonder if it grows wild around here and will carefully look this year.  A search turned up a list of some plants that also contain berberine:  goldenseal and Oregon grape to name a couple.  And an article that is long but educational:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6111450/
Berberine: Botanical Occurrence, Traditional Uses, Extraction Methods, and Relevance in Cardiovascular, Metabolic, Hepatic, and Renal Disorders
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 24, 2020, 10:33:41 AM
Very interesting that the study says that Berberine / PQQ can be effectively taken during an active heart attack in progress!

It typically comes in a sublingual pill, so it's important to let it melt under the tongue slowly rather than chewing it - difficult to do because the pills are tart!

Am familiar with goldenseal, a wonderful plant that is endangered in these parts now.  Will look into Oregon Grape - thanks Ilinda!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on February 24, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
Ilinda's NCBI article noted that there are numerous folk uses of Barberry that have not yet been trialed.  Posting PFAF's exhaustive list of folk medicinal uses here, including both trialed and untrialed:

Quote
Barberries have long been used as an herbal remedy for the treatment of a variety of complaints. All parts of the plant can be used though the yellow root bark is the most concentrated source of active ingredients. The plant is mainly used nowadays as a tonic to the gallbladder to improve the flow of bile and ameliorate conditions such as gallbladder pain, gallstones and jaundice[254]. The bark and root bark are antiseptic, astringent, cholagogue, hepatic, purgative, refrigerant, stomachic and tonic[4, 7, 9, 21, 46, 165, 222]. The bark is harvested in the summer and can be dried for storing[4]. It is especially useful in cases of jaundice, general debility and biliousness[4], but should be used with caution[165]. The flowers and the stem bark are antirheumatic[218]. The roots are astringent and antiseptic[222]. They have been pulverized in a little water and used to treat mouth ulcers[213]. A tea of the roots and stems has been used to treat stomach ulcers[213]. The root bark has also been used as a purgative and treatment for diarrhoea[213] and is diaphoretic[222]. A tincture of the root bark has been used in the treatment of rheumatism, sciatica etc[222]. The root bark is a rich source of the alkaloid berberine -about 6%[240]. Berberine, universally present in rhizomes of Berberis species, has marked antibacterial effects. Since it is not appreciably absorbed by the body, it is used orally in the treatment of various enteric infections, especially bacterial dysentery[218]. It should not be used with Glycyrrhiza species (Liquorice) because this nullifies the effects of the berberine[218]. Berberine has also shown antitumour activity[218] and is also effective in the treatment of hypersensitive eyes, inflamed lids and conjunctivitis[244]. A tea made from the fruits is antipruritic, antiseptic, appetizer, astringent, diuretic, expectorant and laxative[7, 222]. It is also used as a febrifuge[213]. The fruit, or freshly pressed juice, is used in the treatment of liver and gall bladder problems, kidney stones, menstrual pains etc[9]. The leaves are astringent and antiscorbutic[7]. A tea made from the leaves is used in the treatment of coughs[222]. The plant (probably the inner bark) is used by homeopaths as a valuable remedy for kidney and liver insufficiency[244]. Other uses include malaria, and opium and morphine withdrawal[301].

Indian Uses of Native Plants (meaning American Indian) says that the Shoshone, Paiute and Blackfeet Indians used peeled/dried/steeped root of Berberis spp. as an anti-diarrheal.  The Blackfeet further boiled the roots for stomach problems and hemorrhaging. 

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on March 29, 2020, 05:52:53 AM
Two nectarine varieties suitable for the North:

Hardired and Mericrest (one of Meador's trees - he was a famous breeder of orchard rootstock)

Both are cold-hardy, and actually need chill hours in order to produce.  Both have red skins and yellow flesh, and are resistant to brown rot and bacterial spot.  In addition, both are self-fertile (though most self-fertile trees do better with a mate). 

Both varieties are also known for high productivity, but note Ben Davidson's recent comment that trees will go through a period of infertility as the magnetosphere collapses en route to reversal.  So plant at your own risk, perhaps hedging your bet for the future.  :)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Frestoringeden.co%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F11%2Fhardired-Nectarine.jpg%3Ffit%3D250%252C250%26ssl%3D1&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 01, 2020, 03:32:10 PM
One of the finest newer American persimmon cultivars to be developed in recent years is "Szukis," from the Claypool breeding program (there are several other breeders who are equally distinguished for their own genealogies as well). 

Szukis descends from Early Golden, a remarkable antique persimmon from the 19th Century that has been heavily relied upon in breeding trials.  Early Golden itself had (and still has) much going for it, including both male and female flowers on the same tree, but its productivity is spotty according to breeding notes.

On the contrary, its descendant Szukis is a prolific producer of nearly 2" fruit (pretty large for these little date-apricot-like delicacies), while being among the most cold-hardy of all the persimmons.  I believe that "Taylor" developed up in Canada may exceed Szukis' cold hardiness.  And because Szukis bears both male and female blossoms, it is uniquely capable of pollinating other persimmons around it.

Only two nurseries that I'm aware of in the States carry Szukis, so it's somewhat rare: Nolin River in Kentucky, which is sold out for the year, and Cricket Hill Garden in New England, which had sold out quickly but managed to re-supply as of today:

https://www.treepeony.com/collections/persimmon/products/szukis-american-persimmon

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1025/6155/products/szukis_persimmon_large.jpg?v=1534819600)
Remember that American persimmons must be
dead ripe in order to taste sweet.

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 01, 2020, 09:09:09 PM
Persimmons, whether wild or some of these newer bred ones, are worth their weight in gold, IMHO.    And the caption under the pic is very accurate, as anyone who has ever tasted an unripe persimmon knows the truth of this.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 02, 2020, 09:12:15 AM
Absolutely. 

Also, thinking back to our recent conversation about jujubes, my understanding is that they prefer an arid climate, and though they might thrive in other locations, that doesn't translate to productivity.  So those in either a damp climate or a true 4-seasonal climate looking for a date-like fruit to dehydrate for snacking and baking might want to favor persimmon over jujube?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 05, 2020, 06:26:27 AM
Just adding a follow-up note that Cricket Hill's "Szukis" persimmon trees are currently more of a seedling than a sapling size, and they advise waiting til fall to order for better sizes.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 09, 2020, 08:15:11 PM
I have to vent and maybe this is a good place because it relates to fruit trees.

Yesterday it was 90 deg. F, and several days prior it was around 80 deg. each.  But tonight there is threat of a frost/freeze, and the Shinko pear trees are in full bloom, as are wild plum, wild cherry, and wild crabapple.  Whatever happens tonight is something we all must face--more and more unpredictability in our weather. 

Last year we lost every single blossom to a huge windstorm one night.  That was the first time that wind actually demolished the blooms.  Well, fingers are crossed and thanks for letting me vent.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 10, 2020, 08:10:18 AM
Wow Ilinda, such warm temps as those are unheard of here prior to at least Memorial Day.  That sounds like Deep South weather, except for the frost, and I'm only one or two zones north of you I think.  But the micro-climate also counts.

Maybe you could do like the French do when their vineyards face a frost, and keep controlled fires burning til the danger passes?  I remember one photo in particular of rows and rows of torches burning, and guess someone had to keep vigil during the night to keep them lit.

(https://frenchcanalboatcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/NS_FrostFires042816_540.jpg)

Hope your trees get through it OK!

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 10, 2020, 09:13:25 PM
From your picture, it appears the French may have inspired the smudge pots in the citrus groves of FL and CA.

We have actually talked about creating thick, stone perimeters around/under each fruit tree, as the rocks are a good heat sink, especially if they are large and numerous enough.  We got the idea from a raised bed we had years ago that was surrounded by huge boulders, some of which were doubly placed.  We just did that to help keep down weeds, but discovered the bonus:  during a light fall frost, the slow-rising heat from the stones under and near the tomatoes and peppers actually worked like a row cover and released enough heat to prevent frost damage on more than one occasion.   Depends on what happens tonight.

This morning I don't know the low temp., but it was still only 30 deg.F  at 8 AM, and it feels like another cold night is coming.  We don't usually have 90's in April, but it's not all that rare--just not common.  And yes, micro-climate is important. 
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 11, 2020, 04:38:53 AM
We do the thick stones under each fruit tree here, not because of trying to keep them warm, but to keep the hens from digging the roots up  :)
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 20, 2020, 05:14:05 AM
Adding a note that one commonly available potato cultivar which is said to be fully winter hardy and perennial (as opposed to private breeding project potatoes such as those grown by Oikos) is the Yukon Gem, not to be confused with Yukon Gold.

Organic seed potatoes from this variety are mostly sold out on-line at this point, but can still be sourced from Wood Prairie Farm in Maine, but only in smaller amounts at this time:

https://www.woodprairie.com/product/organic-certified-yukon-gem-seed-potatoes/

(https://www.woodprairie.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1100_664_large-324x230.jpg)
Winter hardiness can be a more important trait
than disease-resistance in the North, as long as potatoes
are grown in a well-drained and slightly acidic soil medium,
which generally involves adding peat and shredded or rotted wood.
Using a knee-deep (at a minimum) raised-bed hill culture also helps,
with a walking path around it so that it is never walked on.
Be sure to top-dress with fresh layers of compost every year,
and water less than most other crops.
When the green plants die back in late summer, harvest a bunch
of spuds for the root cellar and keep the rest in the hill for the future  :)

Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 24, 2020, 06:51:39 AM
Ilinda has inspired me to do a post on Pawpaw trees (asimina triloba), by sending me seeds from her own landrace that grows along the banks of a stream on her property.  Lest everyone write her for seeds (which she might be amenable to if asked nicely and postage included), I'll include regular sources and cultivar notes in this thread:

First of all, pawpaws are distinguished as the only "tropical" fruit that grows in the north, and they tend to grow between zones 5 and 9, which covers most of the States.  They are forest under-story natives of Appalachia and the surrounding vicinity, and can often be found on walks in open woods here.  Typically harvested in September and October, they fill in an important gap in food security.

Pawpaws are all alone in the Custard Apple genus, but there are many named cultivars.  Specific successful breeding work has been accomplished by John Gordon, Neal Peterson, and by Kentucky State University, as well as a few others.  Peterson's work in particular has yielded several outstanding cultivars, all named for locations in Appalachia.  The trees are naturally pest- and disease-resistant, except for perhaps a bit of harmless leaf spot on some, so breeders have been free to develop other traits.  Breeding goals have included reducing the number (percentage by weight) of seeds in each fruit, increasing fruit size, getting them to change colors at ripening time as a harvesting signal, and concentrating one or more tropical fruit flavors into the fruit. 

Already known as the "Northern Banana," pawpaw fruit can also have interesting notes of pineapple and mango, among other flavors, depending upon cultivar.  The ripened texture ranges from soft custard to firmer butter:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.7KMMZ24xqOVGjeWCcPWFvgHaHn%26pid%3DApi%26h%3D360%26p%3D0&f=1)
Ohio Pawpaw Festival

One outstanding feature of the pawpaw tree is that it can grow and fruit in partial shade, which opens up planting locations on property that otherwise may not be able to crop much else (though there are many non-tree crops that succeed in the shade - that's another topic entirely).  It needs abundant moisture, but doesn't like to be water-logged as in a boggy location.  Trees younger than fruit-bearing age especially need UV protection, but older trees can withstand full sunlight and UV radiation, according to the breeders.

Pawpaw trees bear large magenta blossoms that interestingly don't attract honey bees.  Instead, they are pollinated by beetles and flies. 

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/eit-planttoolbox-prod/media/images/asimina-triloba_sunflower_ccby0.jpg)

Cross-pollination is needed to get good fruit-set.  Native trees grown on their own root-stock will pollinate each other and bred cultivars.  However, trees grown on their own roots will take several years to begin bearing fruit, so most nurseries offer at least some grafted selections, in which a tree selected from breeding trials is grown on native rootstock, permitting the tree to begin bearing in just a few years.  Grafted trees generally must have another native or cultivar in order to be fertile, and named cultivars may bear heavily once this condition is met - so heavily in some cases that some thinning may need to be done to maximize fruit size.

Some named cultivars and traits:

"Kansas Sunflower" (or just "Sunflower") is one of only two bred cultivars that are self-fertile

"Prolific" is the only cultivar that bears fruit in two or three years

"Mango" produces fruit similar to its name

"Shenandoah" has giant fruit with seeds bred down to 6% by weight

"Susquehanna" has even fewer seeds by weight, at 3%

"Allegheny" has 8% seeds by weight, and overproduces to the point of needing its citrus-tasting fruit thinned

"Wabash" has 6% seeds by weight

"Potomac" has 4% seeds by weight

"NC-1" from Niagara, Canada is fully winter hardy and good for locations with short summers

"Atwood" from Kentucky State U. is mango flavored and produces heavily

"Overleese" is the parent of many of the bred cultivars

"Tallahatchie" has 5% seeds by weight

"Greenriver Belle" has a cinnamon aftertaste

"Benson" from Kentucky State U. has mixed tropical flavors

"Chappell" from Kentucky State U. has a banana-pineapple flavor

"Halvin" is a cultivar suitable for locations with short summers

"Pennsylvania Golden" ripens early with a vanilla custard flavor

"Caspian" from Missouri is suitable for locations with shorter summers

"Summer Delight" ripens in mid-summer and is good for longer-term storage

"Benson" from Kentucky State U. bears round fruit very heavily

"Rappahannock" is an unusually-shaped tree with an odd upright leaf habit that makes fruit easily visible for picking

"Marshmallow" has free-stone fruit

"Honeydew" is a free-stone variety that tastes like a honeydew melon

"Cantaloupe" is a free-stone variety that tastes like a cantaloupe

"Benny's Favorite" has won taste tests in Ohio competitions

"Kentucky Champion" is the most winter hardy and also self-fertile

"Nyomi's Delicious" is a local favorite in Kentucky

"Jerry's Delight" produces some of the largest fruit

"Maria's Joy" produces large fruit that has won a taste contest

"Tropical Treat" keeps well in cold storage

Rootstock sources:

Edible Landscaping in Virginia

Nolin River Nursery in Kentucky

England's Orchard in Kentucky

Rolling River Nursery in California

Raintree Nursery in Washington State

Nash Nurseries in Michigan

Forest Keeling Nursery in Michigan

One Green World in Oregon

Tree Authority Nursery in Pennsylvania

Whiffletree Farm and Nursery in Ontario, Canada

Peaceful Heritage Nursery in Kentucky

Stark Brothers Nursery in Missouri


International Nurseries (provided by breeder Neal Peterson):

Häberli Fruit and Berry Nursery (Switzerland)
Häberli Fruchtpflanzen AG
www.haeberli-beeren.ch
info@haeberli-beeren.ch
Tel. +41 (0) 71 474 70 70

Country Winery (The Netherlands)
www.countrywinery.nl
countrywinery@gmail.com
+31 ( 0 ) 54-8623657

La Pépinière du Bosc (France)
www.pepinieredubosc.fr
contact@pepinieredubosc.fr
+33 (0)6 61 65 34 20

Piet Vergeldt Boomkwekerij B.V. (Netherlands)
www.pietvergeldt.com
info@pietvergeldt.com
+31 77 366 3430

Kobayashi Nursery Co., Ltd. (Japan)
www.kobayashinursery.jp
No direct email - go to their
contact page to fill out a form.
81-48-296-3598

Viher Plant (Slovenia)
www.viher-plant.si
marko.viher@gmail.com

Baumschule Bauch (Germany)
www.bauch-baumschule.de
info@bauch-baumschule.de
049 (0) 2226 9078400

Pépinière Végétal 85 (France)
www.pepinier-vegetal85.fr
contact@vegetal85.fr
02-51-05-78-41

Végétal 85 Pépinières (France)
www.vegetal85.fr
mhdoyon@vegetal85.fr
+33 (0)2 51 05 78 41


Pawpawschule Florian Haller (Germany)
www.pawpawschule.de
flo@hallers.de
004915227173442


La Pépinière du Bosc (France)
www.pepinieredubosc.fr
contact@pepinieredubosc.fr
04-48-26-00-29

Eetbaargoed
www.eetbaargoed.nl
info@eetbaargoed.nl
06 11 11 33 17




Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 24, 2020, 06:44:45 PM
Wow!  Thanks for that pawpaw treatise.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 24, 2020, 07:27:43 PM
As usual, my "search skills" are lacking and I cannot find where we discussed fruit trees not blossoming.

RR mentioned, IIRC, that one or more fruit trees did not flower last year (or was it this year?).  On a related note, a friend in MO, but a bit more north than here told me yesterday in an email that her peach trees did not bloom this year, but that her apples are now starting.  She had no idea or explanation as to why the peach trees wold not flower.

Could it be increased UV due to ozone thinning?  Grasping at straw here, but it does seem odd that fruit trees which ordinarily flower every year, suddenly stop.  We don't have peach, but do have several types of pear, plus apple, and the pear all bloomed, but the apples trees are still small and young.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
Am guessing you may be on to something re: UV.

Some of our trees are just from slow-poke genera methinks, such as the persimmons, which haven't even all leafed out yet.  But then persimmons tend to ripen between Halloween and Thanksgiving, so the lateness could be a welcome defense vs. untimely frosts, or I may need to work some rock dust into their soil.

Here's how we sit as of today:

Enterprise, William's Pride and Redfree apples all blooming profusely.

Ark Black not blooming at all for second year in a row, though it fruited 3 years ago.

Seckel pear leafed out and blooming, but Moonglow not blooming.

Szukis persimmon, Prairie Sun and Meador not in leaf yet nor blooming.  Yates persimmon in full leaf, but has never bloomed after around 4 years in our ground.  May be immature yet, or may need rock dust.

Stanley plum leafed out but not blooming, though it fruited two years ago.

Carmine Jewel tart cherries leafed out and blooming.

Craig's Crimson cherries leafed out but not blooming, but they are fairly young yet.

Hardired Nectarines leafed out and blooming, and covered with bees.

Mericrest Nectarines leafed out and a bit young to bloom yet.

Martin's peach leafed out and blooming.

Will not comment on bush varieties, to save space here.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 25, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
You live in a fruit tree paradise!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 25, 2020, 03:12:20 PM
Ilinda, I'm very intrigued by all of your wild "cultivars."  Would love a list!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 26, 2020, 05:45:54 AM
Adding to the above list:

Cultivated black mulberry, not leafed out or blooming yet, but scratch test reveals dormant life

Wild crabapple, leafed out and blooming

Wild mulberry, leafing out, not blooming yet

Wild cherry leafed out and blooming
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 26, 2020, 11:50:30 AM
Recipe for fermented probiotic-rich herbal Colonial-era root beer:

Though healthful, it must have a caloric sweetener such as maple syrup or cane sugar in order to ferment properly, so no diet sugar-substitutes or Stevia for this one.

The 4 basic native plants to grow or harvest in the Northern deciduous rainforest:

Sassafras (the tree with spicy fragrant roots and a mixture of three leaf shapes with autumn themes: the football, the ghost, and the mitten)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.byyYBwy-k9qqWNlr1kXDvQHaEY%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

Birch

American licorice

Aralia (sarsaparilla / American spikenard)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Firp-cdn.multiscreensite.com%2F3a555508%2Fimport%2Fbase%2FAralia%2520COMPRESSED%25202.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Reposting Nourished Kitchen's recipe without the exotic Asian star anise, which was not part of the traditional Colonial brew.  If using ginger instead of kombucha, it would need to be sourced from the South or grown as an annual in the North:

Cook Time: 45 mins

Fermentation Time: 2 d

Total Time: 2 d 45 mins

Servings: 8 servings (2 quarts)

Ingredients:

    10 cups water
    3 tablespoons sarsaparilla root
    1 tablespoon ginger root
    1 tablespoon licorice root
    2 teaspoons dandelion root
    2 teaspoons birch bark
    1/4 cup sassafras root bark
    3/4 cup unrefined cane sugar
    1/2 cup ginger bug (strained) or kombucha

Equipment:

flip-top bottles

Instructions:

    Fill a large stock pot with 10 cups water, and then spoon in the sarsaparilla, ginger, licorice, dandelion and birch.
    Bring to a boil over medium-high heat, then turn down the heat to medium-low. Simmer for 30 minutes, and then stir in the sassafras bark, and continue simmering a further 15 minutes.
    Turn off the heat, stir in the sugar until it dissolves. Next, allow the decoction to cool to room temperature – about 2 hours.
    Strain decoction, discarding the herbs. Stir in the ginger bug, and pour into flip-top bottles – allowing at least 1 to 2 inches of headspace in each bottle.
    Ferment the root beer at room temperature about 2 days, allowing more time during cold weather. Transfer to the fridge for 3 days to allow the bubbles to set, and serve cold over ice.

Notes:
Alternatives to Ginger Bug. Ginger Bug is a starter for fermented drinks made from ginger, water and sugar. And it contains bacteria and yeast that culture homemade root beer and give it bubbles. 
Alternatively, you can also use an equivalent amount of kombucha, jun tea (green tea kombucha with honey) or water kefir. You could also use fresh whey from yogurt or kefir.

https://nourishedkitchen.com/homemade-root-beer-recipe/

Recipe for Kombucha, if using that instead of ginger bug:

https://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-kombucha-tea-at-home-cooking-lessons-from-the-kitchn-173858

Recipe for ginger bug:

https://wellnessmama.com/8942/ginger-bug/
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on April 29, 2020, 10:50:04 AM
Ilinda, I'm very intrigued by all of your wild "cultivars."  Would love a list!
Not sure if this is complete, but here are ones on the top of my head:
wild cherry
wild crabapple
wild plum
wild peach (aka Indian Peach, aka Blood Peach) (most of them have some deep magenta flesh
wild goosberry
wild blackberry
wild black raspberry
wild mulberry
wild pawpaw
wild persimmon
wild strawberry of various types
wild grapes of dozens of varieties (or more)
 if I forgot any will edit this later....
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on April 30, 2020, 07:44:48 AM
Sounds like a very healthy ecosystem there Ilinda!  You've reminded me that my grandparents used to make wild plum jam on their farm, and nothing else came close to being as good.

We also have the wild grapes here, some on Tarzan vines perhaps decades old, and my children used to swing from them in the woods until the older boy became too large to do so.  He found that out the hard way, by falling smack on his rear on his 8th birthday  :-[

There is some wild blackberry and wild black raspberry here too, and I've torn lots of clothing by wading into those thickets to harvest them  :)  Have started moving some of the wild vines onto cordons to make harvesting easier, esp. the wineberries.

The wild crabapple can be an excellent pollinator for cultivated apples, and may improve them actually.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 01, 2020, 06:06:20 PM
Yes, wild plum jam is truly delicious as I, too, have made it, and a few years ago seriously pruned a couple of wild plum to get ready for plum season, which for some reason hasn't happened since then!

Speaking of wild crabapple, none around here produce fruit that seems appetizing (to humans), but a friend has a very old crabapple tree that seems to have truly unique and desirable crabapples.  They are rather large for crabapples, and are about the size of a small apple!  They are sweet and tart and she said it's almost impossible to find this type of tree anymore because most of the crabapple trees sold by nurseries these days have either tiny fruit or maybe not much fruit at all, but certainly not fruit the size of what her tree produces.

It is interesting how complex the apple family must be because of the intricacies of pollination.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 10, 2020, 10:03:08 AM
Carol Deppe, as we've discussed previously, distinguished herself in the food gardening world with her emphasis on calorie-dense produce, including several starches, at a time when everyone else was pushing greens and demonizing starches.  From a survivalist perspective, she may be right on target, especially as greens can always be tucked into the garden here and there, or even grown indoors, while the starchy vegetables need lots of carefully planned space outside.

In locations in the North that may be too damp or forested to successfully grow many types of non-hybrid corn and squash in the home garden, particularly when space is limited, other starches offer greater viability.  We've already discussed hardy potatoes and perennial Quinoa (the seed head on top of Good King Henry / Lincolnshire Spinach) previously, and I'd like to mention Siberian Peas, a.k.a. Caragana arborescens.

Unlike the fussy early-season annual peas which require inoculated soil, die as soon as temps warm up, and need subsequent replanting (and which incidentally make a stunning floral display for those who can grow them), Siberian Peas grow on more of a shrubby understory tree of between 6 and 18 feet in height, which when pruned and filled out may form a dense thicket or hedgerow that is fully perennial in USDA hardiness zones 2-7. 

They are covered with yellow sweet-pea-shaped blossoms in spring which attract bumble bees, honey bees and solitary bees. 

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.BxPTLM-06cDPwhsD4MG0SQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

The blossoms mature over summer into pods shaped like haricot beans, which are said to explode and scatter seed all over the ground if not harvested early enough:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.O-99Wm0jws454dhEXuCqEwAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

We planted a batch of them as young stubby whips about 4 years ago, and they are just this year reaching a bit taller than my height, but have not yet become a thicket. 

Perhaps most importantly of all besides their hardiness is the fact that Siberian Pea consists of 36% protein, 12% oils, and 52% starch and fiber, and can feed both humans and livestock, earning a 5 out of 5 stars on the PFAF edibility rating scale:

https://pfaf.org/user/plant.aspx?latinname=Caragana+arborescens

The plants are also soil-enriching nitrogen fixers.

Places that normally sell them, but may be sold out at this late-spring date, include:

Burnt Ridge Nursery in Washington State

Greenwood Nursery in Tennessee

The Tree Farm in Colorado

Plants of the Wild in Washington State

One Green World in Oregon

Nature Hills in Nebraska

Wanderlust Nursery in Washington State

Sheffield's Seed Company in New York offers the seeds by the pound.

Several other nurseries offer a newly bred weeping variety, but whether it is productive I cannot say.

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The dried and harvested peas.
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: ilinda on May 10, 2020, 07:27:29 PM
What an eye-opener!  Not even sure if I've ever heard of this beauty.  The fact of being perennial is important and I wholeheartedly agree with Carol Deppe and others who are champions of the starchy veggies, that we should probably be eating more of these nutrient-dense, and sometimes caloris-dense foods. 

Personally I thinki counting calories is a waste of time because our bodies are very different from those inanimate calorimeters which are used to determine caloric content of foods.

Are Siberian peas best collected dry/dried, then cooked as dry beans?
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 11, 2020, 09:02:33 AM
Usually with shelling beans and peas, there's an option of picking them very young as tender pods, before they become stringy.  Am still waiting on a harvest here; hopefully this year!
Title: Re: Northern Permaculture
Post by: R.R. Book on May 16, 2020, 03:21:53 PM
It's getting time to thin out sunchokes, for those in latitudes and micro-climates in which they've sprouted their first few leaves of 2020.  They need to be spaced at least a foot apart in all directions now while they're small, in order to permit space for setting new tubers, as they'll quickly gain height and become more difficult to work with. 

We pulled about 10 lbs. of chokes out of the garden today and popped them into a chest freezer, which will convert the inulin starch back to fructose and make them more digestible.  A good rule of thumb for this is that if the tubers have any green sprouting from them, or had at the time that they were harvested, then the inulin is likely not converted.  If they've been through at least one good frost that kills the above-ground parts, then they're good to eat.

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(Stock photo from the Web)