Planet X Town Hall

Yowbarb - SURVIVING the CHANGES => Survival Shelter and Location Ideas => Topic started by: Beachguy on April 22, 2010, 11:48:56 AM

Title: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Beachguy on April 22, 2010, 11:48:56 AM
This topic was orphaned from the old board and Marshall allowed me to pick it up here...  just moved up the line really.   But it fits well with what we are talking about in the other threads.

Here's a place to start:   If we "bug out" either by staying put in survival mode or by actually moving to a different place - can we really make it alone?   When I ponder this - my gut feeling is no, not really.  What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Pbandpk on April 22, 2010, 01:27:25 PM
I'll chat with you since I don't have anything to do LOL.

First define "alone".

Second define "survive".
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Beachguy on April 22, 2010, 01:34:26 PM
I'll chat with you since I don't have anything to do LOL.

First define "alone".

Second define "survive".

By alone, I guess I'm thinking of a small family unit.   Remember - this won't exactly be like the days of the settlers moving West - IMO.   There won't be well stocked supplies from the East and the only thing to fear is the indians... no slam intended in that remark but only to try and make a point.  There will be folks all around who have nothing and no way to buy it or a place to get it from.

By survive - I don't know.  To me, survival means shelter, some food, and relative safety.   I believe it TOTALLY depends on how things unfold as to if this is going to be remotely possible.   
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Pbandpk on April 22, 2010, 01:45:16 PM
By alone, I guess I'm thinking of a small family unit.   Remember - this won't exactly be like the days of the settlers moving West - IMO.   There won't be well stocked supplies from the East and the only thing to fear is the indians... no slam intended in that remark but only to try and make a point.  There will be folks all around who have nothing and no way to buy it or a place to get it from.

By survive - I don't know.  To me, survival means shelter, some food, and relative safety.   I believe it TOTALLY depends on how things unfold as to if this is going to be remotely possible.

The highlighted part, like you said, will ultimately determine everything.

I truly believe you can make it with a small group.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Dania22 on September 20, 2010, 07:31:42 AM
I personally think, that safety is in numbers and in the case of total chaos, the more the merrier. I feel if you haven't established the who and who's of your group yet, it may get harder and harder to trust people as the time goes by. People are getting weary of each other, more so now I think, than before. Time is of the essence friends.  I don't know about anyone else, but for me, it's imperative that if you're going to reach out to people, do it now while they're still in the "nice to meet you mode".

Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: 8hertz on September 20, 2010, 08:07:35 AM
What about establishment go well at the current time but well things get from bad to worst and the members break apart.  They will be fighting over bad ideas, direction and resources (Water and Foods).  Will interviewing really meet and satisfy this argument. These are tough and very hard question for individual, we need to question and answer these ideas before hand in order to meet our objective.

8hertz
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Dania22 on September 20, 2010, 09:15:10 AM
It's a start. To sit here and worry about groups "breaking apart" right now to me is irrelevant. Right now is what matters, getting in contact with people of like-mind and DOING something!  That "crossing the bridge when we get to it..." will apply later. Right now, there's people that are hopeless, and not sure where to turn, there are also people that newly awakened but can't do much because of limited funds. These are the people that I'm speaking of. The people of TODAY, that want to make it through. You have to start trusting now. I'm reaching out to those....
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Souz on November 05, 2010, 06:10:03 PM
dania22...you got it right...plenty of people faced with excruciatingly difficult decisions AND finite resources....it is not  easy nor feasible to up-and-go at the flick of a switch , especially when you are not alone.....bad enough to scrap one's retirement plans :( ... and your kids [6] college and college and university plans [some already underway]...basically,  everyone's life blown apart...more so , when your income is tied to your assets/home  [as in a farm]...and life still goes on....for most, moving  far away to safety is just not possible....the best that can be done is to find a site relatively close by that meets as many survival criterias as possible....and that IS a real challenge....
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on November 05, 2010, 06:17:35 PM
souz, first Welcome to Town Hall. Yes for most it is not feasible to up and move, in which case one should prepare/provision as best they can for survival in place, if possible bars on windows, pleanty of food, water, first aid items, and self protection as allowed by ones state or country. Also if like-minded people are nearby to set up a means of communication for if/when the grids go down walkie talkies could come in handy. As best one can be ready to defend you and yours. Good luck and again welcome.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Ed Douglas on December 13, 2010, 09:44:18 AM
If water starts to rise here, near Lake Erie,the Appalachian Mountains are to the east. In a survival situation, I will travel until I feel safe. Hopefully it won't be private property. If the water rises too much, it will become public property, real quick, fast and in a hurry. Maps of areas to possibly survive are a good idea. National and State Parks are open to public. If your land is my only path to get there, try not to be angry at me and mine.  ed
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on December 13, 2010, 09:59:08 AM
Totally agree Ed, our path will be toward the Mainland moutains right thru bad guy turf, but that's life. Gotta do what one has to do.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Ed Douglas on December 13, 2010, 10:11:41 AM
I figure that, if the land is changing, then the ownership is too. I'm not gonna stay and drown, when I can migrate to higher ground, which happens to be the Appalachians, here.  When I am at an area I think is liveable, at least for a little while, then I will stay there until I think we should move. Of course, with maps, making it to gov't land is the desired destination.  ed
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: augonit on December 13, 2010, 04:18:11 PM
I've always felt that if someone is starving, then I can't be too upset if they take a couple tomatoes or beans or whatever from my garden. (I even have the same feeling about animals).  I don't hold a grudge if you take a little bit for your own survival.  However, I've often wondered if I'd be so generous in the after times when people may take advantage of this and take all I have.  If you were to walk through my property, go right ahead.  As long as you don't destroy anything I won't mind.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on December 13, 2010, 04:30:21 PM
People will be afraid and starving, so to think they will only take "a little" is not going to happen they will take all they can get their hands on and then some. Be prepared to defend "numero uno" first......
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: augonit on December 13, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
I guess I hadn't considered the fear factor.  I was sorta hoping people would be nice and respectful.  Remember how connected we all were right after 9/11?  I thought it would be like that.  People watching each other's back because we'd all be in the same boat.  I guess I've been naive.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on December 13, 2010, 04:43:13 PM
This unfortunately will be a global event, everyone who is not awake prior to the events will be rudely awakened and in my book scared to pieces, most will not have a clue as to what to do, let alone how to grow a plant for their own foods. Security will be a vital factor between life and ........
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Ed Douglas on December 13, 2010, 06:13:44 PM
Auggie, watch the movie 'The Road".  ed
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Frisky Robert on December 14, 2010, 02:20:34 AM
Hey, the road was interesting.  I think it was a very realistic pridiction of how it would be in some places.  But the movie director/screen writer did not understand survival tactics in that, they showed the father and son making large fires in the open at nite. That would draw too much attention for the "bad guys". Fires should be made small and within some concealment.  The other thing was, these main characters traveled on the main roadways, another big no-no. The main roads are for all the main preditors. Remenber that! When preditory people can't go to the grocery store, they will go to the homes and then to the biways and pathways. When I used to hunt deer, I would stake myself out on the deer paths. The best tactic is to be where you need to be before anything happens. Travel, even with "official" permission will be almost non-existant in a serious regional emergency. In addition to official road blocks you will have pursuits and road blocks forn gangs.

In a lecture I attended, the speaker mentioned research done by the Gov't on what makes the difference for individuals to survive or not survive a societal collapse. They wanted to advise their Embassy employees if, they were caught in those situations. They interviewed people who survived the civil wars in countries like Lebannon, Angola, Rodesia, Liberia and, Rawanda. They found with only few exceptions, that people who had money, intelegance, strength, and even political connections, did not survive much but, mostly only those that prepared in advance for it survived.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Dania22 on December 14, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
The Road.....wow! I think the hardest part(s) for me was in the beginning of the movie, when mom made the decision to leave behind hubby and baby and go out into the "night" to die. I could never see myself and any mom that I know personally doing that! That made me upset. Leaving behind your child because you feared what was coming! >:(

 And, the other part, when dad was teaching son how to use the last bullet to kill himself if needed to. Dad knew he was dying and wanted no harm to come to his young son, I understood that, yet, I've had mixed feelings about that. the decision that we will be faced with.....wow! Can we stand when the time comes? My prayers.....that we are all embolden to do what we must, and not do what we must not, when the time approaches. For guidance and strength to carry on.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Alfred Williams on December 14, 2010, 06:03:32 PM
Well put dania22 When things begin to happen the informed will bring cooler heads to the tumult{{:>)
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Eva08 on December 31, 2010, 11:38:01 PM
I am trying to get my neighbors interested in growing some of their own vegetables etc. If everyone around us has a garden they will not look into mine when the time comes... but guess what ... there's no interest ... very frustrating...When and if something happens - all hillsides have been brush cleared -- I am choking thinking about it... even with my own garden we will be hard pressed making it. I'll try to talk to churches next...locally -- if everyone around would just plant some seeds - the 500 seeds from the cantaloupe and cut a potato from the supermarket and bury it and start feeding the earth with some compostable vegetable scraps -- we can make it -- we can all make it -- god given life is so abundant.... but no, the agendas still so prevalent...
Can we survive alone? Someone needs to cultivate the soil and work the soil... no survival alone is not possible - a family unit is the bare minimum - actually a couple families... just my opinion... please, comment;
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Yowbarb on January 01, 2011, 12:04:43 AM
I am trying to get my neighbors interested in growing some of their own vegetables etc. If everyone around us has a garden they will not look into mine when the time comes... but guess what ... there's no interest ... very frustrating...When and if something happens - all hillsides have been brush cleared -- I am choking thinking about it... even with my own garden we will be hard pressed making it. I'll try to talk to churches next...locally -- if everyone around would just plant some seeds - the 500 seeds from the cantaloupe and cut a potato from the supermarket and bury it and start feeding the earth with some compostable vegetable scraps -- we can make it -- we can all make it -- god given life is so abundant.... but no, the agendas still so prevalent...
Can we survive alone? Someone needs to cultivate the soil and work the soil... no survival alone is not possible - a family unit is the bare minimum - actually a couple families... just my opinion... please, comment;

Hello Eva and Happy New Year.
I agree, even if time is short, we do not know how short, exactly - it is good to begin planting things both indoors and outdoors. Avocadoes and potatoes in a jar, planters full of tomatos and berries.. Corn in the yard... cabbages onions potato squash... It will all help...
Linda has posted some good ideas about dehydrating foods. She dehydrates her own garden foods and also what she gets in local farms.
Canning has a precision to it, but once it is mastered it is a good solution and excesses of produce can be canned. (I haven't done much canning.)
I agree better to do something than nothing. One idea I had posted awhile back is to have some steel containers with garden implements, perhaps even a buggy and tack, planting supplies and some live small trees and plants. When the high winds start the door could be shut and they should be ok for awhile. Some kind of waering system or if time and money are short -just water them good and let them ride it out.
Domestic animals will need a shelter... If a steel container even it would need to be reinforced in the middle and sides. If buried it should have some reinforcement on top too... Would need some sort of drainage and a ventilation pipe.
All The Best,
Yowbarb
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on January 01, 2011, 05:31:22 AM
Welcome Eva08 to Town Hall.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Yowbarb on January 01, 2011, 06:52:56 AM
I am trying to get my neighbors interested in growing some of their own vegetables etc. If everyone around us has a garden they will not look into mine when the time comes... but guess what ... there's no interest ... very frustrating...When and if something happens - all hillsides have been brush cleared -- I am choking thinking about it... even with my own garden we will be hard pressed making it. I'll try to talk to churches next...locally -- if everyone around would just plant some seeds - the 500 seeds from the cantaloupe and cut a potato from the supermarket and bury it and start feeding the earth with some compostable vegetable scraps -- we can make it -- we can all make it -- god given life is so abundant.... but no, the agendas still so prevalent...
Can we survive alone? Someone needs to cultivate the soil and work the soil... no survival alone is not possible - a family unit is the bare minimum - actually a couple families... just my opinion... please, comment;

Eva well, all this is probably not anything you don't know - some ideas. Definitely best for at least one family group to team up for survival. A cluster of shelters on some land probably the best scenario.
Many millions of people will be not able to get survival land, land so will do the best they can where they are, meaning their basements, homes back yards.  As time goes by maybe people will gravitate toward those who are most level headed and calm and practical and capable of working together in a group. People will find one another it could be neighbors, club members etc.
I agree - it is not the best idea for people to try to survive totally on one's own. 
There will be a lot of people - especially middle aged to older men, though doing just that, trying to survive on their own - burying their vans, securing the sides and top - rigging up whatever they can in the way of ventilation and to get through the worst of the earth changes. Some people just do not have any close contacts near them or anyone inviting them to go help build a shelter in a group, so these people  are already preparing to survive in place as best they can. Digging in.

Best of luck in finding some neighbors or new friends who have similar ideas of survival...
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: augonit on January 01, 2011, 08:30:20 AM
Eva, you go girl!  I admire your determination to get more people interested in the very simple, yet vitally important idea of home gardening.  I also tried to get people, where I used to live, interested and met resistance.  But keep keeping on.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Linda on January 01, 2011, 12:01:35 PM
Hi Eva and welcome.  Looks like you will have to be the pioneer and hopefully some will realize from your example, don't give up. Who would have thought in  a place like Detroit they would be tearing down abandon houses and creating community gardens in their place to help feed their people. Some just have to see things in action I guess.

Good Luck
Linda :)
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Eva08 on January 03, 2011, 12:11:41 AM
Thank you all - and Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Yowbarb on January 03, 2011, 08:30:55 AM
Thank you all - and Happy New Year!

Happy New Year and best of luck in all your endeavors.
 :)
Yowbarb
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: AG on January 08, 2011, 07:21:18 PM
1. for answer is : no. We need to work as group.
2. We will need to prep er in advance as this is a long term change , not few weeks and you go back home. There will be no home to go to.
3. Is hard to pull a group of people in this . As we can see this group is more advanced in knowledge but everybody is into "individual" stuff. Only a good size of people can work it out as is so much work to do and you need to have few locations to move fast into one new as the changes may force.
4. Look at government, they work the underground cities ( there grave in fact) for so many years. They have a plan just if there plan will prove to be wrong at the end at least they have one.
5. I try to group with some individual and I found out is just hard to unite people. All the time they will have there agenda and such.

What is your finding in this as myself I like to build a community with some supply and special constructions into it ( mostly with trailers and a little underground) , just a Noah Earth boat.
Now is possible the New Madrid Fault with teach us a lesson ( I hope in this lesson no nuclear plants blow up). That is going to be the "wake up punch" probably , but the media will "calm the population" and say rebuild , rebuild. From that more will come and so on.
We know what is going to happen in general but working together I found to be the most impossible task of all.

AG.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on January 09, 2011, 03:54:56 AM
AG, seems as if you have really been preparing.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: 1969quartz0 on January 09, 2011, 04:54:34 AM
AG strive for a group that is ideal, but to say one can not survive by themselves is not true most of us here other then maybe a spouse or sibling are going to have to do just that. It is hard to find people for a group before hand and most will not be able to do that, maybe after the worst is over a lot of us will group together for the rebuild. One other thing to think about is be very careful who you talk to about this who cares what they think unless its you boss, but a lot will mock you now and then they will remember during and after and try to make you feel sorry for them and if that does not work they will try to take.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: noproblemo2 on January 09, 2011, 05:07:27 AM
There are a great many who think we are plain nuts for believing this, they will be the first to ask for our help when it is too late for them to provision. It will be hard for all of us no matter how prepared we are, both physically and emotionally.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: AG on January 10, 2011, 10:16:27 AM
AG, seems as if you have really been preparing.

Yes and is taking many trial and error for finding people.
In the same time I'm think how to get shelter done from the oceanic trailers. Need to be like a "Earth Noah boat".. to move up , down, left and right and still be there , when the crust will move ( in case will move).

AG.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Yowbarb on January 10, 2011, 04:25:19 PM
AG, seems as if you have really been preparing.

Yes and is taking many trial and error for finding people.
In the same time I'm think how to get shelter done from the oceanic trailers. Need to be like a "Earth Noah boat".. to move up , down, left and right and still be there , when the crust will move ( in case will move).

AG.

AG I believe the consensus is, even though a steel container would normally hold up to just about anything, the possible earth changes
could cause buckling.
Have you read some of the posts suggesting how to reinforce the steel containers?
They will have to be reinforced with something. May not have to be so expensive.
Lumber better than nothing.  A T - in - the - middle structure connected on all sides and on the bottom.
Bottom:  Probably have to be set down on concrete and reinforced there...
Top: a layer of reinforcement. Just some thoughts.
I personally do not want windows, just non grid non hazardous power source inside.
Any ventilation pipes will have to have a valve which can be shut from inside. In case of water rolling over it or smoke outside. There needs to
be some kind of periscope or way to view outside. If not it may be possible to just eyeball it or figure out what is happening.
I would have the entrance topside with a metal ladder. Hatch like a submarine door which you seal like turning a wheel and latch it tight.  I haven't yet come across directions on how to go about that yet...
If that is not possible a door which latches shut tight, and some kind of concrete slab fits over it, slid into grooves. - Yowbarb   Here is one site will post in Internet sites Board too... http://store.prepared.pro/sheltershome.aspx
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: AG on January 11, 2011, 09:51:35 AM
On containers as I see it should be like a boat to float with the earth crust. I'm planning to have some CAD drawing on it later on and show them to you. I got in my mind few version and this one I will explain is the simple one.
1. you take a long container = 40 or better 50 feet.
2. you put cross it I beams about 4 of them to the length of 16-20 feet or such ( assuming the container is 8 feet wide). So need to be wider.
3. you take the end of the I beams and you put some springs on them. You do this in this way : you take a tubing and other tubing to go inside the first one and you put the spring inside ( like trucks springs or such -  of course you will need to make all the calculation so all will fit) of them so will go up and down but no side way. So this will absorb some of the earth pressure ( assuming you are not in the middle of a volcano or just in the center of the earthquake or just into a sink hole etc).
4. now you take a wheel and put it under the springs, so all will be moving in all direction: up , down, left , right, jump etc so you flow for some distance at least you will not resist the motion of earth , you just move with it... Remember resistance is futile.
5. you put all this on wheel under the ground about few feet. So at the end you will cover all with some dirt of 2-3 feet ( need to have some calculation into this).
6. Now you will put the wheels on some cement with the radios of few feet. On this cement you push in the ground about 20 feet or more I beams and you put them in each corner ( under each wheel). so all will move with the earth and will give you some stability. This I beams in the ground be mostly perpendicular with the surface with some degree of change, but should be stable in there movement in all directions.
7. At the end will be nice to have something like an "umbrella" to cover the trailer. Just in case you loose the first from  the wind and  the fire , heat will not be directly to the trailer.

All is relative to the observer. Some people will think will be a camp trip and you come back home but is not the case. All as we see now will be leveled and the debris ( like cars , animals , people, trees etc) will fly all over and you can't do nothing about it other that take the ride and fly too. So if you think in advance is good to have some increase in your chance.
Such a work need to be done in cooperation with other people, one person can't handle so much work load or just financial. But is hard to make people to see it. So you have a community. Now the hard issue is to find such people to go with it. And that is behind impossible.
In case you are closer to the flood is not going to work, so you need to be of some distance from the ocean and from big rivers. Underground want is a new think I'm looking over and I have spot in my mind for some time and I think that will do it.

From this if you build some " refugee" places few miles from the main location , you can have some mobility in case you loose your main location.
In general if you have 1000 of such community and you make agreement with people to exchange there resources if one of this location is "damage" and they move to other location. But in this time of age of people center to them self is an impossible task. All will wait for government action to " help them" government will not be there , as it is not now either.
Many people will try to force into this locations , later on and you need to have some "reserve space for them too" just to accommodate as many as you can.  As we are all people.

Again this is the second version I have in mind and of course is very costly.

Remember we will have wind in the range from 200 MPH to probably 1,000 MPH ( in case the earth will change the rotation). That wind is going to be the hardest to deal with as pigs will fly ( is that simple).

Now you build few of this in an area and you have for animals and supply and such. Of course for some supply like wood probably do not need to be in the same construction.
You need to take the aftermath factor, as that will be very harsh on everybody and resources will not be any ware to help us, so you will need to have some resources for some time. Best to pull resources for 2 years, but if you manage 4-6 months is still good.

So this is the simple as I see it.
Inside of the containers you should have exits in all directions and something to dig in case you go down in the crust and you need to have some lifters  to just push when is needed.

But should not be all underground as the crust will just crash everything as the "underground cities" will be a grave for those into them.
The sound coming from the crust will be very high and will make people to go just ....nuts...
So again this is like a Noah boat on the Surface of earth. Simple as that.
Yes more ideas may come but I'm thinking on this for some time. Electricity is he most important , as is so much in need in that time for so much work to be done: like heating , water for all the needs and much more. I'm working on some devices with some people and I think we can have something outstanding in this area too. So is all in the plan and cooperation.

A.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: AG on January 11, 2011, 10:00:52 AM
AG, seems as if you have really been preparing.

Yes and is taking many trial and error for finding people.
In the same time I'm think how to get shelter done from the oceanic trailers. Need to be like a "Earth Noah boat".. to move up , down, left and right and still be there , when the crust will move ( in case will move).

AG.

AG I believe the consensus is, even though a steel container would normally hold up to just about anything, the possible earth changes
could cause buckling.
Have you read some of the posts suggesting how to reinforce the steel containers?
They will have to be reinforced with something. May not have to be so expensive.
Lumber better than nothing.  A T - in - the - middle structure connected on all sides and on the bottom.
Bottom:  Probably have to be set down on concrete and reinforced there...
Top: a layer of reinforcement. Just some thoughts.
I personally do not want windows, just non grid non hazardous power source inside.
Any ventilation pipes will have to have a valve which can be shut from inside. In case of water rolling over it or smoke outside. There needs to
be some kind of periscope or way to view outside. If not it may be possible to just eyeball it or figure out what is happening.
I would have the entrance topside with a metal ladder. Hatch like a submarine door which you seal like turning a wheel and latch it tight.  I haven't yet come across directions on how to go about that yet...
If that is not possible a door which latches shut tight, and some kind of concrete slab fits over it, slid into grooves. - Yowbarb   Here is one site will post in Internet sites Board too... http://store.prepared.pro/sheltershome.aspx


Yes a periscope is a good idea, thank, I forgot to mention that.
In general all the "company with the "bunkers " builder are not thinking of a pole shift. So they think on nuclear bombs or war or such. Our case for the pole shift is different and again need to take in consideration the condition for it.
So any input is good but the best is just start to group people and educate them. Education will take some time and is hard. Now when the Madrid Fault will do it's dead, that will start to give some real thinking to many people. When the West coast will come to the same will push people to the limit and from that we will have just few months and weeks ( I do not know.
What I know to come with this ideas will take some time.
In the same time research in this area is a long process. I used a lot of "dreams" from many people and that is a good indication on what is going to happen. so you some some solution in such situation.
Remember if Noah was 'beaching " for 300 years, people still did not get it.... , as will be now...
A.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Jimfarmer on May 21, 2011, 07:23:56 AM
Here is a new Internet site that might be of interest:  http://emergencysociety.com/ (http://emergencysociety.com/) .

"Emergency Society helps our society prepare for emergency-related situations, such as earthquakes, floods, fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, blizzards, war, terrorism, personal crises and more. To prepare for the worst, we must band together as a society and begin developing a plan now. Natural disasters and emergencies are nearly always unexpected so we must organize our disaster preparation plans NOW in order to avoid panic and chaos when any emergency situations do take place. By working together, becoming Emergency Guardians, and pulling our own individual weight, we know that as a society, we can weather any storm."

Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: dougluvn on May 21, 2011, 12:57:09 PM
I believe that to survive we will have to band together for mutual defence.  A man and woman with 2 or 3 kids are just to vulnerable they would just not be able to handle every thing that may be thrown at them.  A group with 4 to 6 men and women plus any kids is ideal in my views, small enough to move fast but large enough to defend one another.  Later on the term survive will have a different meaning.  This will include farming, community will be key at this point.
Title: Re: Can we survive on our own ?
Post by: Yowbarb on May 22, 2011, 01:52:08 PM
On containers as I see it should be like a boat to float with the earth crust. I'm planning to have some CAD drawing on it later on and show them to you. I got in my mind few version and this one I will explain is the simple one.
1. you take a long container = 40 or better 50 feet.
2. you put cross it I beams about 4 of them to the length of 16-20 feet or such ( assuming the container is 8 feet wide). So need to be wider.
3. you take the end of the I beams and you put some springs on them. You do this in this way : you take a tubing and other tubing to go inside the first one and you put the spring inside ( like trucks springs or such -  of course you will need to make all the calculation so all will fit) of them so will go up and down but no side way. So this will absorb some of the earth pressure ( assuming you are not in the middle of a volcano or just in the center of the earthquake or just into a sink hole etc).
4. now you take a wheel and put it under the springs, so all will be moving in all direction: up , down, left , right, jump etc so you flow for some distance at least you will not resist the motion of earth , you just move with it... Remember resistance is futile.
5. you put all this on wheel under the ground about few feet. So at the end you will cover all with some dirt of 2-3 feet ( need to have some calculation into this).
6. Now you will put the wheels on some cement with the radios of few feet. On this cement you push in the ground about 20 feet or more I beams and you put them in each corner ( under each wheel). so all will move with the earth and will give you some stability. This I beams in the ground be mostly perpendicular with the surface with some degree of change, but should be stable in there movement in all directions.
7. At the end will be nice to have something like an "umbrella" to cover the trailer. Just in case you loose the first from  the wind and  the fire , heat will not be directly to the trailer.

All is relative to the observer. Some people will think will be a camp trip and you come back home but is not the case. All as we see now will be leveled and the debris ( like cars , animals , people, trees etc) will fly all over and you can't do nothing about it other that take the ride and fly too. So if you think in advance is good to have some increase in your chance.
Such a work need to be done in cooperation with other people, one person can't handle so much work load or just financial. But is hard to make people to see it. So you have a community. Now the hard issue is to find such people to go with it. And that is behind impossible.
In case you are closer to the flood is not going to work, so you need to be of some distance from the ocean and from big rivers. Underground want is a new think I'm looking over and I have spot in my mind for some time and I think that will do it.

From this if you build some " refugee" places few miles from the main location , you can have some mobility in case you loose your main location.
In general if you have 1000 of such community and you make agreement with people to exchange there resources if one of this location is "damage" and they move to other location. But in this time of age of people center to them self is an impossible task. All will wait for government action to " help them" government will not be there , as it is not now either.
Many people will try to force into this locations , later on and you need to have some "reserve space for them too" just to accommodate as many as you can.  As we are all people.

Again this is the second version I have in mind and of course is very costly.

Remember we will have wind in the range from 200 MPH to probably 1,000 MPH ( in case the earth will change the rotation). That wind is going to be the hardest to deal with as pigs will fly ( is that simple).

Now you build few of this in an area and you have for animals and supply and such. Of course for some supply like wood probably do not need to be in the same construction.
You need to take the aftermath factor, as that will be very harsh on everybody and resources will not be any ware to help us, so you will need to have some resources for some time. Best to pull resources for 2 years, but if you manage 4-6 months is still good.

So this is the simple as I see it.
Inside of the containers you should have exits in all directions and something to dig in case you go down in the crust and you need to have some lifters  to just push when is needed.

But should not be all underground as the crust will just crash everything as the "underground cities" will be a grave for those into them.
The sound coming from the crust will be very high and will make people to go just ....nuts...
So again this is like a Noah boat on the Surface of earth. Simple as that.
Yes more ideas may come but I'm thinking on this for some time. Electricity is he most important , as is so much in need in that time for so much work to be done: like heating , water for all the needs and much more. I'm working on some devices with some people and I think we can have something outstanding in this area too. So is all in the plan and cooperation.

A.


AG very belated reply. Thanks for the interesting ideas!!
Yowbarb